[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-demands-obama-cancel-dalai-lama-meeting/2014/02/21/89a06e4e-9b11-11e3-ad71-e03637a299c0_story.html[/url]
[QUOTE]BEIJING — China has demanded the White House cancel a meeting between President Obama and the Dalai Lama scheduled for Friday, warning it would severely harm U.S.-China relations.
It will be Obama’s third such meeting with the Tibetan spiritual leader since he became president. Each has drawn severe criticism from China, which considers the Dalai Lama an anti-China separatist.
“The Dalai Lama is a political exile who has long been engaged in anti-China separatist activities under the cloak of religion,” Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said in a statement Friday. “By arranging a meeting between the President and the Dalai Lama, the U.S. side will grossly interfere in the internal affairs of China, seriously violate norms governing international relations and severely impair China-U.S. relations.”
On Thursday, the White House played down the political aspect of the visit.
“The United States supports the Dalai Lama’s ‘middle way’ approach of neither assimilation nor independence for Tibetans in China,” she said....[/QUOTE]
Not sure about Tibet and supporting the Llama but the US could say something about North Korea and that organ harvesting operation.
Oh China, Grow up please.
Devil's advocate, but it is pretty interesting:
[video=youtube;fYEOSCIOnrs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYEOSCIOnrs[/video]
[QUOTE=timothy80;44019592]Oh China, Grow up please.[/QUOTE]
really cas Tibet was basically the easiest land grab ever and it was chinas first and only maoist expansion, they choose to ignore the problem and deny that a problem exists and just give their security personnel fire extinguishers instead of sitting down and talking with the people of Tibet and figuring out a solution
[QUOTE=Sableye;44019886]really cas Tibet was basically the easiest land grab ever and it was chinas first and only maoist expansion, they choose to ignore the problem and deny that a problem exists and just give their security personnel fire extinguishers instead of sitting down and talking with the people of Tibet and figuring out a solution[/QUOTE]
Well snipers on every roof keeps things peaceful.
as far as "terrorists"go, I'd say the dali lama is probably the best one to have he isn't calling for armed vilance and enough people in Tibet still respect his authority, now getting rid of him will spark an uprising
[editline]23rd February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44019903]Well snipers on every roof keeps things peaceful.[/QUOTE]
no the big problem they have in Tibet is monks burning themselves in protest
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44019408]
Not sure about Tibet and supporting the [B]Llama[/B][/QUOTE]
[img_thumb]http://static2.fjcdn.com/comments/I+read+his+name+as+Dalai+Llama+_1e33cf415b561e42a32cbc99d31c5d27.jpg[/img_thumb]
?
Maybe the Dalai Lama is worse than the Chinese government, maybe he's not. But Tibetans still deserve to be independent either way.
[QUOTE=Kljunas;44020612]Maybe the Dalai Lama is worse than the Chinese government, maybe he's not. But Tibetans still deserve to be independent either way.[/QUOTE]
How could he be worse than China in any conceivable way?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;44020636]How could he be worse than China in any conceivable way?[/QUOTE]
Feudal Manorialism with Tibetan monks as the lords was basically Tibet before China.
-snip- wrong section.
Isn't the lama basically an elaborate scam?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;44020636]How could he be worse than China in any conceivable way?[/QUOTE]
He would fuck up the infrastructure and isolate the shit out of them in order to maintain power as an absolute leader.
[editline]23rd February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=katbug;44020750]Isn't the lama basically an elaborate scam?[/QUOTE]
Pretty much.
Take note that if it wasn't for China, Tibet wouldn't have a thriving tourist industry, as well as thriving aged tea industry.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44020689]Feudal Manorialism with Tibetan monks as the lords was basically Tibet before China.[/QUOTE]
ya but you are talking about a place where there wasn't really any large towns or cities or really any form of goverment other than local goverments
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44020817]Take note that if it wasn't for China, Tibet wouldn't have a thriving tourist industry, as well as thriving aged tea industry.[/QUOTE]
And its people wouldn't become a minority in their own land.
[editline]23rd February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44020689]Feudal Manorialism with Tibetan monks as the lords was basically Tibet before China.[/QUOTE]
That was literally over 50 years ago. Do you seriously think he would make Tibet structured like that?
Hasn't the Dalai Lama admitted that Tibet should have had a constitutional democracy, and that if they did they might not have lost so easily? I thought I'd heard that somewhere.
they also were a theocracy with a series of ministries dealing with the day to day problems
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashag[/url]
obvously worked since they didn't really have many problems between 1642 to 1950
isn't the Dalai Lama like a horrible human being? Pretty sure he is worse than China.
I don't get why people say the Chinese are colonizing Tibet. As far as population records go, about 6% of the population of Tibet is Han Chinese.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_Autonomous_Region#Demographics[/url]
[quote]The ethnic Tibetans, comprising 92.8% of the population,[18] mainly adhere to Tibetan Buddhism and Bön, although there is an ethnic Tibetan Muslim community.[19] Other Muslim ethnic groups such as the Hui and the Salar have inhabited the Region. There is also a tiny Tibetan Christian community in eastern Tibet. Smaller tribal groups such as the Monpa and Lhoba, who follow a combination of Tibetan Buddhism and spirit worship, are found mainly in the southeastern parts of the region.
Historically, the population of Tibet consisted of primarily ethnic Tibetans. According to tradition the original ancestors of the Tibetan people, as represented by the six red bands in the Tibetan flag, are: the Se, Mu, Dong, Tong, Dru and Ra. Other traditional ethnic groups with significant population or with the majority of the ethnic group reside in Tibet include Bai people, Blang, Bonan, Dongxiang, Han, Hui people, Lhoba, Lisu people, Miao, Mongols, Monguor (Tu people), Menba (Monpa), Mosuo, Nakhi, Qiang, Nu people, Pumi, Salar, and Yi people.
According to Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition published between 1910–1911, total population of Tibetan capital of Lhasa, including the lamas in the city and vicinity, was about 30,000, and the permanent population also included Chinese families (about 2,000).[20]
Most Han people in the TAR (6.1% of the total population)[18] are recent migrants, because all of the Han were expelled from Outer Tibet following the British expedition until the establishment of the PRC.[/quote]
Also note that Tibet was historically part of China under the Qing dynasty (although very loosely held) and it became de facto independent as the result of the revolution. In the warlording era, China wasn't the most pleasant of places to be, and Tibet was no exception.
[QUOTE=The Baconator;44023230]isn't the Dalai Lama like a horrible human being? Pretty sure he is worse than China.[/QUOTE]
Where do you get that from?
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;44020776]He would fuck up the infrastructure and isolate the shit out of them in order to maintain power as an absolute leader.
[editline]23rd February 2014[/editline]
Pretty much.[/QUOTE]
Besides that one penn and teller video I see at the top of this thread I've never heard from the Dalai Lama that he intended to become absolute ruler of Tibet.
[URL]http://www.dalailama.com/messages/buddhism/buddhism-and-democracy[/URL]
[quote]4. I have long looked forward to the time when we could devise a political system, suited both to our traditions and to the demands of the modern world. A democracy that has nonviolence and peace at its roots. We have recently embarked on changes that will further democratize and strengthen our administration in exile.[b] For many reasons, I have decided that I will not be the head of, or play any role in the government when Tibet becomes independent. The future head of the Tibetan Government must be someone popularly elected by the people[/b].[/quote][quote]2. Although none of our Buddhist societies developed anything like democracy in their systems of government, I personally have great admiration for secular democracy. [B]When Tibet was still free, we cultivated our natural isolation, mistakenly thinking that we could prolong our peace and security that way. Consequently, we paid little attention to the changes taking place in the world outside. We hardly noticed when India, one of our closest neighbours, having peacefully won her independence, became the largest democracy in the world. Later, we learned the hard way that in the international arena, as well as at home, freedom is something to be shared and enjoyed in the company of others, not kept to yourself.[/B][/quote]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44023432]I don't get why people say the Chinese are colonizing Tibet. As far as population records go, about 6% of the population of Tibet is Han Chinese.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_Autonomous_Region#Demographics[/url]
Also note that Tibet was historically part of China under the Qing dynasty (although very loosely held) and it became de facto independent as the result of the revolution. In the warlording era, China wasn't the most pleasant of places to be, and Tibet was no exception.[/QUOTE]
You should know better than to use the "historical part of" argument.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;44023532]You should know better than to use the "historical part of" argument.[/QUOTE]
"Historically part of" just pretty much means that their history, and that of China, have been closely interlinked for the past few centuries. Tibet was also heavily influenced (largely due to their central position) by India as well, but largely in modern history they and China have had much of the same experiences. By part of, I also mean that a lot of Chinese have lived in Tibet as well, so the numbers of Chinese there today is hardly a surprise.
When the PRC annexed the country in the 50s, by all accounts it wasn't an act of malice. Certainly it has a lot of problems such as during the cultural revolution, but since Den Xiaopings reforms its shared in a lot of the newfound wealth that China has acquired. The chairman in charge of the government in Tibet is almost always an Ethnic Tibetan, and Tibetan culture has had a renaissance because of all the gullible westerners who go there to buy Tibetan things or read about their land or that. China isn't stupid to clamp down on Tibetan culture, and by all accounts the idea that they are using migrants to gain control is nonsense given by the demographic records.
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