• (UK) Allow fracking in national parks, says Environment Agency chief
    51 replies, posted
[quote=The Guardian][b]Fracking in national parks should be permitted because the visual impact can be limited when the process is "done properly", the outgoing chairman of the Environment Agency has declared.[/b] Chris Smith, who is due to step down from the post next month, waded into the debate over fracking by dismissing the claims of those campaigning against the impact of the controversial drilling at particular sites. "Provided it is done carefully and properly regulated, those fears are definitely exaggerated," Smith said in an interview with the Times. He went on to reject the arguments of other anti-fracking campaigners who want to see greater emphasis placed on developing renewable energy sources rather than another fossil fuel. "I don't agree with that analysis because we aren't yet ready to see 100% of our energy requirements being produced from renewables," he said. "Over the next 10-20 years we are going to have to use fossil fuels still and it's much better to use gas than coal."[/quote] [url=http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/28/allow-fracking-national-parks-environment-agency]Source[/url]
Yeah, no.
no fracking way, not in a national park. "if it's done properly" ok yeah, but they're not accounting for the massive probability of some mishap happening
Fuck the visual impact, It's the other fucking impacts that are the problem.
[QUOTE=Killerjc;45240957]no fracking way, not in a national park. "if it's done properly" ok yeah, but they're not accounting for the massive probability of some mishap happening[/QUOTE] Fracking is totally safe if done properly, obviously if they can regulate it to the point that virtually nothing can go wrong, then there's no reason to be afraid of fracking. It's not that fracking is inherently bad, it's that energy/petroleum countries are corrupt and lazy.
It will be pretty bad if they did find oil there, in a national park.
[QUOTE=Lf751;45241016]It will be pretty bad if they did find oil there, in a national park.[/QUOTE] It's shalegas they're going for, not oil. Also, depending on how big the parks are this should be totally possible because hydraulic fracking is done horizontally. If it's a small park chances are the drill site could just be put just outside it, if it's a big park a digging site wouldn't be a visual problem because it doesn't require that much space anyway. The only problem I foresee is the assembling and disassembling of the drillsite. This could be a problem if the drill site is put inside the park. Then there's the fact that it will cause sound and light polution for ~2 years when it's in use.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45240988]Fracking is totally safe if done properly, obviously if they can regulate it to the point that virtually nothing can go wrong, then there's no reason to be afraid of fracking. It's not that fracking is inherently bad, it's that energy/petroleum countries are corrupt and lazy.[/QUOTE] Fracking is not safe in any fashion, It is extremely unpredictable under the strictest of conditions.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45240988]Fracking is totally safe if done properly, obviously if they can regulate it to the point that virtually nothing can go wrong, then there's no reason to be afraid of fracking. It's not that fracking is inherently bad, it's that energy/petroleum countries are corrupt and lazy.[/QUOTE] Could the people disagreeing on this explain why? It is safe if done properly. Most negativity towards the subject is from examples where it isn't done properly.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45240988]Fracking is totally safe if done properly, obviously if they can regulate it to the point that virtually nothing can go wrong, then there's no reason to be afraid of fracking. I mean, it's not that fracking is inherently bad, it's that energy/petroleum countries are corrupt and lazy.[/QUOTE] The ridiculous water consumption of it in addition to the groundwater contamination in the immediate area strikes me as a huge problem, especially in our national parks. Add to that storing the contaminated water that's pumped out to be treated and disposed elsewhere, methane emissions during the fracking process itself. We may be an island, but fresh water is actually pretty scarce. Then there are my basic complaints about fracking on the sheer principle of it - it's a fairly old technique that used to be too expensive but is considered financially viable now due to drilling costing more as we've dried out most easy to get places. More pressure to go renewable (or I'll shove my nuclear love in here) or nuclear is good, fracking is a crutch to try to get more hydrocarbons out while we can. That and there's always the one time tight regulation fucks up due to oversight.
[QUOTE=SuicideZ;45241078]Could the people disagreeing on this explain why? It is safe if done properly. Most negativity towards the subject is from examples where it isn't done properly.[/QUOTE] They are the same as the anti-vaxxers, they haven't done the research and don't know what they're talking about. Example: [QUOTE=Deiru;45241076]Fracking is not safe in any fashion, It is extremely unpredictable under the strictest of conditions.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Deiru;45241076]Fracking is not safe in any fashion, It is extremely unpredictable under the strictest of conditions.[/QUOTE] This isn't true, fracking has been done in many countries since the 80's for the extraction of "normal" natural gas.
The risks aren't even that important to me it's the fact the whole government are so adamant that it happens.
[QUOTE=Pepsi-cola;45241108]The risks aren't even that important to me it's the fact the whole government are so adamant that it happens.[/QUOTE] The country where the health secretary supports homoeopathy and wants to gut the system, Theresa May supports feelings over proof, education secretary doesn't have a clue what he's doing according to the vast majority of education staff and cabinet members are shoved around based on politics rather than skill and knowledge in the field.
What a fucking dumb decision
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45241084]They are the same as the anti-vaxxers, they haven't done the research and don't know what they're talking about. Example:[/QUOTE] Anywhere I've seen says that fracking contaminates groundwater, which gets into water supplies (thus harming humans), and harms local ecosystems. Is that not true? Not to mention the tens of better alternatives to fracking. Fracking is a short term solution to a long term problem. Look up thorium as a use of a nuclear energy, for example: [video=youtube;uK367T7h6ZY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK367T7h6ZY[/video] Here's an interesting video on the pros and cons of fracking: [video=youtube;Uti2niW2BRA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uti2niW2BRA[/video]
[QUOTE=Trumple;45241318]Anywhere I've seen says that fracking contaminates groundwater, which gets into water supplies (thus harming humans), and harms local ecosystems. Is that not true? Not to mention the tens of better alternatives to fracking. Fracking is a short term solution to a long term problem. Look up thorium as a use of a nuclear energy, for example: [video=youtube;uK367T7h6ZY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK367T7h6ZY[/video] Here's an interesting video on the pros and cons of fracking: [video=youtube;Uti2niW2BRA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uti2niW2BRA[/video][/QUOTE] I've seen both those videos. Do you know how deep groundwater reservoirs tend to be? Do you know how deep fracking operations go? It's been shown that everytime there is a problem with fracking, it's due to negligence (which your own video even says). Generally groundwater contamination comes from spills on the surface, not the chemicals underground. Which brings me back to my first point, that fracking itself is safe, but that corporations are lazy and corrupt. With regards to the Thorium reactor: [URL]http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/1mpt7l/lftrs_in_5_minutes_thorium_reactors/ccbmxdm[/URL]. I'm not against green energy, but I think fracking gets a bad rap because of misinformation.
[QUOTE=Trumple;45241318]Anywhere I've seen says that fracking contaminates groundwater, which gets into water supplies (thus harming humans), and harms local ecosystems. Is that not true? Not to mention the tens of better alternatives to fracking. Fracking is a short term solution to a long term problem. Look up thorium as a use of a nuclear energy, for example: Here's an interesting video on the pros and cons of fracking: [/QUOTE] I agree that using natural gas(which shalegas is) isn't a longterm solution, but currently it's probably one of the better ways to go, considering the fact that creating nuclear powerplants is very expensive and anxiety after fukushima. Plus, natural gas is a very scalable energy source so it's perfect to match with renewable sources. The video you showed says that the fracking fluid is usually put back in after drilling, that's not true. Then there's the fact that the fracking fluid in combination with methane can reach groundwater supplies. This has happened in the US, mostly due to negligence as said in the video. But in europe it's very different, I'm not sure what height it is at exactly in the UK but in the netherlands groundwater sources and shalegas are at way different heights which makes the contamination very unlikely.
What a fracking terrible name
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45241388]I've seen both those videos. Do you know how deep groundwater reservoirs tend to be? Do you know how deep fracking operations go? It's been shown that everytime there is a problem with fracking, it's due to negligence (which your own video even says). Generally spills on the surface leak into the groundwater supply, not the chemicals underground. Which brings me back to my first point, that fracking itself is safe, but that corporations are lazy and corrupt. With regards to the Thorium reactor: [URL]http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/1mpt7l/lftrs_in_5_minutes_thorium_reactors/ccbmxdm[/URL]. I'm not against green energy, but I think fracking gets a bad rap because of misinformation.[/QUOTE] Negligence is still a huge issue though. I remember reading in Private Eye that at the test fracking site set up the UK, the guys supposed to be in charge of hazardous chemical safety had literally done a three day course on it, and that a basic infantryman's NBC training was actually better than theirs. What could go wrong with these guys in charge? And locally speaking, I live near the South Downs (which is a national park, and has been highlighted as a possible site for fracking), which provides loads of drinking water via it's chalk aquifer. I'd rather not drill for anything in or under a major water supply.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45241388]I've seen both those videos. Do you know how deep groundwater reservoirs tend to be? Do you know how deep fracking operations go? [/QUOTE] I don't know the answer to either of those questions - I spent a good deal of time a while ago looking into fracking, as I was worried about how harmful it could be. By the end of my digging I'd found so much apparently wrong with it that I didn't support it. I always question what I'm told - but all I seem to be told is how harmful fracking is. I really want my mind to be at ease over this, so if you DO have a resource debunking the apparent dangers, please share it with us. [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45241388] It's been shown that everytime there is a problem with fracking, it's due to negligence (which your own video even says). Generally groundwater contamination comes from spills on the surface, not the chemicals underground. Which brings me back to my first point, that fracking itself is safe, but that corporations are lazy and corrupt. [/QUOTE] More should be done to prevent negligence then Air travel would be deemed unsafe if there was a high level of incompetence and negligence in the industry, but there isn't, so we call it safe. Until there is stricter control on it, it's unsafe, and so I wouldn't support it without being assured of stricter control
Suggesting Thorium as a solution to fracking is a little like suggesting the Space Shuttle for crossing the Great Lakes. Probably the most useful, if not best, argument against fracking is that it's a last-ditch effort that does not yield nearly as much as people originally expected.
Piss off, says every sane person.
Why can't they put someone in power of a topic they actually know what they're fucking talking about?
Well he can go frack himself.
[QUOTE=Source;45244660]Why can't they put someone in power of a topic they actually know what they're fucking talking about?[/QUOTE] sadly that's not how the world works
ITT: Terrible puns
Huh. So I guess I learned today that fracking is not a euphemism.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45240988]Fracking is totally safe if done properly, obviously if they can regulate it to the point that virtually nothing can go wrong, then there's no reason to be afraid of fracking. It's not that fracking is inherently bad, it's that energy/petroleum countries are corrupt and lazy.[/QUOTE] Found this in the comments: [QUOTE]Fracking poisons groundwater [url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/01/05/some-states-confirm-water-pollution-from-drilling/4328859/[/url] [url]http://www.wfaa.com/news/investigates/Scientists-say-state-tests-prove-fracking-to-blame-for-Parker-Co-flaming-wells-262056131.html[/url] We aren't allowed to know what chemicals are being used - when evidence emerges it is very worrying [url]http://www.sciencecodex.com/hormonedisrupting_activity_of_fracking_chemicals_worse_than_initially_found-136137[/url] Fracking requires vast amounts of water to work - 2-4 million gallons per well. I wonder where that will come from... Fracking isn't safe, unlike renewables [url]http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/05/07/Morgan-County-fracking-well-leaking-since-Sunday.html[/url] We need more renewable energy - Germany has achieved 74% - we could have done better than that if there were any political will for it. Fracking is about greed, not energy requirements. “Only after the last tree has been cut down. Only after the last river has been poisoned. Only after the last fish has been caught. Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten.” Cree Indian Prophecy[/QUOTE] [editline]29th June 2014[/editline] Is it lies?
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;45245495]Found this in the comments: [editline]29th June 2014[/editline] Is it lies?[/QUOTE] No, they're not lies. US law concerning fracking is inadequate and many companies who drill there do it inresponsibly. As sloppy joe has said that nothing is wrong if done [I]properly[/I]. And seeing as this is the UK this isn't relevant because groundwater supplies are at a different depth than the shale gas.
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