Change.org Petition Wants ANTIFA Declared a ‘Terrorist Organization’ - Polidicks

[QUOTE]A Change.org petition is being circulated on Friday to declare the “anti-fascist” ANTIFA organization a “terrorist organization” following violent protests at the University of California, Berkeley. “Terrorism is, in its broadest sense, the use of intentionally indiscriminate violence as a means to create terror or fear, in order to achieve a political, religious, or ideological aim. ANTIFA have demonstrated time and time again that they’re more than willing and able to fill these criteria,” the petition reads. “We’re asking that the president formally declare ANTIFA a domestic terror organization.” As of press time on Friday afternoon, it had more than 10,000 of the 15,000 signatures needed and was rising fast.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2218815-petition-circulating-around-to-declare-antifa-a-terrorist-organization/"]http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2218815-petition-circulating-around-to-declare-antifa-a-terrorist-organization/[/URL] The link to the Petition it self. [URL="https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-declare-antifa-a-terrorist-organization"]https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-declare-antifa-a-terrorist-organization[/URL]

[QUOTE=Lolkork;51794317]this is dumb, they are terrible but they aren't terrorists.[/QUOTE] Yes they are. They are a non-governmental body that uses violence and the threat of violence to try to sway policy and to scare people in to acting or not acting in accord with their world views.

This is larger covered in the other thread on the issue of Antifa. [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1551508[/url] And yes, technically, they are terrorists. They commit violence to achieve political ends. Here is a nice video covering the Antifa and the Black Bloc. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPvN5o2aRNs[/media]

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51794323]Yes they are. They are a non-governmental body that uses violence and the threat of violence to try to sway policy and to scare people in to acting or not acting in accord with their world views.[/QUOTE] Pretty much this.

Same deal as sovereign citizens, two sides of the same idiot coin. Only sovereign citizens tend to be on the more conservative part of the spectrum whereas antifa tends towards progressive. And sovereign citizens are in fact considered domestic terrorists. [editline]8th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Cructo;51794324]Should be declared a hate group instead[/QUOTE] That would be dependent on then being motivated primarily by race, religion, sexuality, some perceived inherent characteristic of a group of people. Their motivations are political in nature.

Signed. Violence is where I draw my line.

I hate fascism. But antifa is a danger to people like me, as it legitimizes other violent groups, and it helps nobody. I'd sign we're I not on mobile.

I've never learned, is antifa an organization? I thought It was just loose groups of "anti fascists" which I assume everyone is so I would count everyone as antifa.

[QUOTE=Cructo;51794324]Should be declared a hate group instead[/QUOTE] No. They are terrrorists. They immediately resort to violence when opposed.

[QUOTE=patq911;51794374]I've never learned, is antifa an organization? I thought It was just loose groups of "anti fascists" which I assume everyone is so I would count everyone as antifa.[/QUOTE] They're an actual organization. But by using the name "Antifa", they can immediately try to paint their critics as fascists by saying "They don't support [b]Antifa[/b]cism! They're fascists!" And because they rely on and push extremism, they can entirely ignore those critics perceived as part of the problem because they are the "good" guys and ergo are always justified and the "bad" guys that make up all of their detractors can never be right.

[QUOTE=Cructo;51794403]Didn't know they were violent tbh, from what I've heard I assumed they were something like WBC[/QUOTE] Anti fascist groups are usually non violent, I.e. Women's March. But antifa is out and out violent

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51794408]They're an actual organization.[/QUOTE] Who is the leader of antifa?

[QUOTE=Cructo;51794403]Didn't know they were violent tbh, from what I've heard I assumed they were something like WBC[/QUOTE] Ohh no, on a purely method look, WBC are saints in comparison. They use peaceful protests and picketing to express their views. Antifa on the other hand uses violence as their means to their end. Of course within context of their views and goals, WBC loses their saintly appearance as their peaceful protests are conducted in such a way as to harass people and groups that they find lesser and they desire to have violence inflicted upon them so as to look like victims and to possibly pursue monetary compensation. Because they target people based on intrinsic characteristics, they are considered a hate group instead of a terrorist group.

lol next thing you'll see is a petition against Black Bloc. it's like seing the media trying to grasp what 4chan was back in the days. ''ban the hackers of 4chan anonymous !!!''

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51794432]Who is the leader of antifa?[/QUOTE] Irrelevant. An organization does not explicitly need a leader to be an organization. If you consider their end game, then logically they lack true, accountable leadership because it would by nature conflict with their views.

No thanks, keep them fully legal and just lock people up on an individual basis. If violence is needed to bring down tyranny & bigotry (since those who lead or follow it rarely actually [I]listen[/I]), then violence is (sadly) a necessary evil. Then there's good violence and bad violence. Punching some nazi douchefuck in the face is A-OK with me. Lighting shit on fire? Probably not the best idea. Unless the shit in question belongs to previously mentioned nazi. Then go ahead lol.

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;51794449]No thanks, keep them fully legal and just lock people up on an individual basis. If violence is needed to bring down tyranny & bigotry (since those who lead or follow it rarely actually [I]listen[/I]), then violence is (sadly) a necessary evil. Then there's good violence and bad violence. Punching some nazi douchefuck in the face is A-OK with me. Lighting shit on fire? Probably not the best idea. Unless the shit in question belongs to previously mentioned nazi. Then go ahead lol.[/QUOTE] You know the right can use the exact same argument to justify there violence if you say this right?

Im getting sick of people justifying violence against those with different politics. Violent extremists on both sides need to fuck off. I hate Nazism and its most extreme followers too. But i would never attack them unless they target me first.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51794439]Irrelevant. An organization does not explicitly need a leader to be an organization. If you consider their end game, then logically they lack true, accountable leadership because it would by nature conflict with their views.[/QUOTE] If they are an organization then they must have some sort of structure. Can you name any key members?

While anecdotal I can speak from personal experience in leaderless movements how they can still be organized without having true leadership. I took part in Occupy Wall Street protests here in my home city (if the local news footage is saved somewhere, there is actual video of me marching with them). In the case of the "Bank Transfer Day" event that happened, people discussed in a Facebook group for local Occupy Wall Street supporters and the general consensus was that we would meet at Railroad Park and march a few blocks from there to a local Wells Fargo branch. On the day, everyone met up and milled about until it was about the time we had agreed upon to start. After a little discussion on the scene we determined how to best proceed and march, how to behave at the bank, things of that nature, then made sure the whole group was aware in case someone hadn't heard. Then we made our march to the bank. It was very peaceful, the news came, did a few interviews with people inside and outside the bank, and while the actual protestor-customers were inside doing what they were there for, the rest of us waited outside on the sidewalks and in the parking lot nearby. We never entered the street except to cross at intersections, and it went very smoothly. Police were there, but they were quite friendly and even supportive. When everything was finished, we marched back to the park, protested a little more there, then disbanded and went home. No one individual made the decisions for the people there, it was decided by truly collective agreement. But we were still organized and operated under the same banner. It would be totally fair for someone to refer to us as an organization despite lacking a leader. We had clear messages and purposes and methods, we just didn't have one individual directing us.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51794468]Im getting sick of people justifying violence against those with different politics. Violent extremists on both sides need to fuck off. [B]I hate Nazism and its most extreme followers too.[/B] But i would never attack them unless they target me first.[/QUOTE] i tend to hate them all why just the extreme ones for you though ?

I can't sign something like this knowing there are nazis who have not been punched yet /s added on request...

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51794439]Irrelevant. An organization does not [B]explicitly need a leader[/B] to be an organization. If you consider their end game, then logically they lack true, accountable leadership because it would by nature conflict with their views.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51794323]Yes they are. They are a [B]non-governmental[/B] body that uses violence and the [B]threat of violence[/B] to try to sway policy and to scare people in to acting or not acting in accord with their world views.[/QUOTE] Well that's definition of [I]Insurrectionary Anarchism[/I] and they are promoting [I]Anarchist Terrorism[/I] And fuck two-Party narrative because not all "Liberal" (Social Liberal) don't share same views other left wing counterparts.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51794492]If they are an organization then they must have some sort of structure. Can you name any key members?[/QUOTE] They really don't though aside from forming together under a single banner and operating together. I could likely find prominent members who are more outspoken or have a media presence, but that doesn't explicitly make them a leader. But the body has collective goals and methods shared throughout its constituents. You join and stay because of these things, further reinforcing these characteristics even without explicitly voting or confering on the matter.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51794512]They really don't though aside from forming together under a single banner and operating together. I could likely find prominent members who are more outspoken or have a media presence, but that doesn't explicitly make them a leader. But the body has collective goals and methods shared throughout its constituents. You join and stay because of these things, further reinforcing these characteristics even without explicitly voting or confering on the matter.[/QUOTE] I'd love if you can find some prominent members because I've been totally incapable of finding any members or any sort of structure that would be easy to identify as a terrorist group. Without a structure, the concept of "joining and staying" becomes as transient as putting a black face mask on. What happens when you start arresting people who are nominally Antifa when they light businesses on fire or turn over cars or beating people and they say they aren't actually in Antifa and the prosecution can't do anything to prove they were a part of a terrorist organization?

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51794529]I'd love if you can find some prominent members because I've been totally incapable of finding any members or any sort of structure that would be easy to identify as a terrorist group. Without a structure, the concept of "joining and staying" becomes as transient as putting a black face mask on. What happens when you start arresting people who are nominally Antifa when they light businesses on fire or turn over cars or beating people and they say they aren't actually in Antifa and the prosecution can't do anything to prove they were a part of a terrorist organization?[/QUOTE] You look at more than just their claims for starters. Going back to Sovereign Citizens, they too lack leadership but they organize and refer to themselves and each other through such organization. They are also considered domestic terrorists despite having little in the way of prominent members. In fact, one of the government bodies, (it was either the FBI or DHS as I recall), specifically says they are the single most dangerous domestic terrorist organization.

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51794462]You know the right can use the exact same argument to justify there violence if you say this right?[/QUOTE] Yeah, I am. Too bad they're objectively wrong and don't matter.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51794551]You look at more than just their claims for starters. Going back to Sovereign Citizens, they too lack leadership but they organize and refer to themselves and each other through such organization. They are also considered domestic terrorists despite having little in the way of prominent members. In fact, one of the government bodies, (it was either the FBI or DHS as I recall), specifically says they are the single most dangerous domestic terrorist organization.[/QUOTE] Would it not make more sense then to charge individuals who use violence to achieve a political goal as domestic terrorists?

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;51794552]Yeah, I am. Too bad they're objectively wrong and don't matter.[/QUOTE] Then why martyr them and give them ground to stand on?

You look at what they were doing at the time whatever incident they are on trial for occured. What were they saying and doing, how did they operate, things of that nature. Sovereign Citizens tend to have specific things they say and do, such as referring to the Uniform Commercial Code and stating very loudly that they do not consent to arrest or to being stopped by the police.