Israel bombs Gaza strip again - 2 dead, 20 civilians wounded - Polidicks

[QUOTE][B]Two Palestinians have been killed in Israeli air strikes in the Gaza Strip, medics say, while an Israeli has been hurt by a rocket fired from there.[/B]A militant was targeted as he launched rockets from northern Gaza overnight. Another man later died near Jabaliya. An explosion also killed a six-year-old boy in Khan Younis on Saturday. Medics blamed an Israeli air strike, but the Israeli military denied responsibility. Meanwhile, more than 20 rockets have been fired into southern Israel. An Israeli man was moderately wounded on Saturday morning when a Qassam rocket hit the roof a factory in the Sderot industrial zone. The Israeli military's chief of staff, Lt Gen Benny Gantz, has convened "an urgent meeting" to discuss ways of dealing with the rocket- and mortar-fire, which has continued despite efforts this week to agree a ceasefire. [B]Escalation fears[/B]Overnight, the Israel Air Force struck two targets in the Gaza Strip, including the militant preparing to launch rockets. About 20 people, some of them civilians, were wounded. A man was later killed east of Jabaliya, also in the north, medics said. [IMG]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/61094000/gif/_61094865_gaza_khanyounis_jabaliya_0612.gif[/IMG] Officials from the Hamas militant group, which governs Gaza, said another Israeli air strike killed a six-year-old boy at a football pitch near the southern town of Khan Younis, and wounded two other people. They also said a baby was wounded in a separate attack in Rafah. An Israeli military spokeswoman said an initial examination showed that it was not involved in the death of the boy. She suggested the cause could have been a misfired Palestinian rocket. She had no immediate comment on the report about the baby. The BBC's Jon Donnison in Ramallah reports that the ceasefire announced on Wednesday never really took root. Hamas seems to have refrained from firing rockets itself for the last three days but smaller militant groups have continued to do so, he says. Although neither Hamas nor Israel's leaders say they want an escalation, there is always a fear the fighting could get out of control, our correspondent adds. It is more than three years since Israel's last major offensive in Gaza, in which some 1,400 Palestinians were killed, as well 13 Israelis.[/QUOTE] Source: [URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18562213[/URL]

Poor kid that got killed. This whole situation is such a mess.

The utter lack of any progress between Israel and Palestine in reaching a solution to their problems is disgusting

It is in retaliation to rockets fired into Israel though, don't forget to mention that.

[QUOTE=The Pretender;36464936]It is in retaliation to rockets fired into Israel though, don't forget to mention that.[/QUOTE] And killing civilians and human rights abuses are not acceptable, no matter the circumstances. If you can't do it without significant collateral damages, don't do it at all, try and deal with it in a different way, such as not oppressing people and building illegal settlements, perhaps?

Surely this will end the conflict in the region. Very strategic planning there, Israel, I applaud you [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=The Pretender;36464936]It is in retaliation to rockets fired into Israel though, don't forget to mention that.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://wontsomebodypleasethinkofthechildren.ytmnd.com/"]These Rockets?[/URL]

[QUOTE=The Pretender;36464936]It is in retaliation to rockets fired into Israel though, don't forget to mention that.[/QUOTE] Sure, but Israel doing extra damage to Gaza and killing a kid is overdoing it.

I think that the main source of the problem is the sheer instability of the region. With Israel you have a single, organized nation with an established government, military, etc. On the other side, the situation seems to be multiple independent groups against Israel scattered across the populace. Even if Hamas disbanded this time tomorrow there would still be groups targeting Israelis. What I think needs to be done is a bit of nation building. Work with Palestinians to secure the countryside to make it harder for groups that threaten the peace to thrive. In my opinion, this would mean centralizing power in the Gaza strip so that a single Palestinian entity has control over arms and armed forces. This would probably entail measures to get weapons out of the hands of the aforementioned groups through means such as raiding areas that produce and/or house weapons, some sort of system of checkpoints to search for and confiscate weapons from individuals, and possibly incorporating the groups into the new military if any of them are willing. With the lethality of Hamas and other groups for the most part subdued and Palestinian authority more centralized, peace talks will be much more likely to begin/succeed. This is all just theory and supposition, of course. I'm sure a more trained mind could come up with a much better solution than mine.

[QUOTE=prooboo;36465048]Surely this will end the conflict in the region. Very strategic planning there, Israel, I applaud you [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] [URL="http://wontsomebodypleasethinkofthechildren.ytmnd.com/"]These Rockets?[/URL][/QUOTE] Just because the rockets aren't JDAMs doesn't make them not a threat. Nor does it stop them from killing people, on occasion. I know I wouldn't tolerate people firing rockets at my house and trying to kill me, no matter how poor quality the munitions are.

[QUOTE=Hidole555;36465104]I think that the main source of the problem is the sheer instability of the region. With Israel you have a single, organized nation with an established government, military, etc. On the other side, the situation seems to be multiple independent groups against Israel scattered across the populace. Even if Hamas disbanded this time tomorrow there would still be groups targeting Israelis. What I think needs to be done is a bit of nation building. Work with Palestinians to secure the countryside to make it harder for groups that threaten the peace to thrive. In my opinion, this would mean centralizing power in the Gaza strip so that a single Palestinian entity has control over arms and armed forces. This would probably entail measures to get weapons out of the hands of the aforementioned groups through means such as raiding areas that produce and/or house weapons, some sort of system of checkpoints to search for and confiscate weapons from individuals, and possibly incorporating the groups into the new military if any of them are willing. With the lethality of Hamas and other groups for the most part subdued and Palestinian authority more centralized, peace talks will be much more likely to begin/succeed. This is all just theory and supposition, of course. I'm sure a more trained mind could come up with a much better solution than mine.[/QUOTE] Checkpoints, centralised power, support for a benign regime, police actions working within rather than military actions from outside, sounds like the kind of horrible inhumane oppression that they are doing in the West Bank, funny like that. And if anyone mentions the settlements in that regard as if it's part of a master plan rather than political idiocy I will stab them.

[QUOTE=BoysLightUp;36465119]Just because the rockets aren't JDAMs doesn't make them not a threat. Nor does it stop them from killing people, on occasion. I know I wouldn't tolerate people firing rockets at my house and trying to kill me, no matter how poor quality the munitions are.[/QUOTE] Sure, yes, the rockets are bad, trying to blow people up with rockets is a bad thing So let's bulldoze a Palestinian town and bomb the entire Gaza strip. "Eye for and eye" defense policy doesn't work.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;36465178]Checkpoints, centralised power, support for a benign regime, police actions working within rather than military actions from outside, sounds like the kind of horrible inhumane oppression that they are doing in the West Bank, funny like that. And if anyone mentions the settlements in that regard as if it's part of a master plan rather than political idiocy I will stab them.[/QUOTE] I worry that outside military intervention might encourage more Palestinians to join Hamas, making things even worse.

The problem is that Israel responses are disproportional to the attacks they endure because they believe that they will stop if they show Hamas that if they attack, Israel will retaliate 100 times worse. This obviously is not the case.

You know, maybe if Israel stopped being a cunt all the time maybe people would stop firing rockets at them.

[QUOTE=ewitwins;36465549]The problem is that Israel responses are disproportional to the attacks they endure because they believe that they will stop if they show Hamas that if they attack, Israel will retaliate 100 times worse. This obviously is not the case.[/QUOTE] Partial garbage. Things like Operation Cast Lead, their major offensive a couple years ago, are designed to show overwhelming military force. They're not as effective as desired due to Hamas being tricky and having no qualms about human shields, but that is a goal. This kind of thing is not about overwhelming force though, it's about doing the bare minimum that will actually achieve something. Throwing their own absolutely ineffective bottle rockets won't help any, doing proper scaled up attacks that indiscriminately target civilians like Hamas is fucked up and they don't do that. What they do is target specific tactical points known to have weapons or be involved, because they just fired rockets, and at the very least kill soldiers with as little collateral as possible. It's only disproportionate in that it's harder to kill an armed soldier than an unarmed civilian.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;36465577]You know, maybe if Israel stopped being a cunt all the time maybe people would stop firing rockets at them.[/QUOTE] This kind of approach to things is silli, and i'll tell you why. In order to understand the situation here, you need to understand something first-Why do the Israelis and Palestinians hate each other? You know why? Not because of any "occupation", not because of rockets, not because of settlements, not because of suicide bombings or any of that bullshit. You know the real reason to why they hate one another? Because that what they are taught at home. Sure, there are reasons that caused people to educate their children that way. That's not the point. The point is that you treat hate as if it's a rational thing, that if you take away the symptoms of hate then it will somehow go away. That's not how people work. The people in Gaza/West Bank/Israel don't get up in the morning and just decide to hate each other based on the facts or their surroundings, no, they start to hate first and find reasons to bitch about later. The only chance of any peace in the region will come with a fresh generation unaffected by these opinions, and leaders on both sides know this. They know that even if they sign super-ultimate-mega peace treaty, the results will only start to show in [b]maybe[/b] 30-50 years, assuming another elected official won't fuck it up in the process. If you were any of these leaders, would you [b]really[/b] risk assets and values you believe in for something that would maybe happen a long long time from now? Of course you wouldn't. And that's why this whole mess is occurring in the first place. It's just too easy [b]not[/b] to make peace.

[QUOTE=Glorbo;36465703]This kind of approach to things is silli, and i'll tell you why. In order to understand the situation here, you need to understand something first-Why do the Israelis and Palestinians hate each other? You know why? Not because of any "occupation", not because of rockets, not because of settlements, not because of suicide bombings or any of that bullshit. You know the real reason to why they hate one another? Because that what they are taught at home. Sure, there are reasons that caused people to educate their children that way. That's not the point. The point is that you treat hate as if it's a rational thing, that if you take away the symptoms of hate then it will somehow go away. That's not how people work. The people in Gaza/West Bank/Israel don't get up in the morning and just decide to hate each other based on the facts or their surroundings, no, they start to hate first and find reasons to bitch about later. The only chance of any peace in the region will come with a fresh generation unaffected by these opinions, and leaders on both sides know this. They know that even if they sign super-ultimate-mega peace treaty, the results will only start to show in [b]maybe[/b] 30-50 years, assuming another elected official won't fuck it up in the process. If you were any of these leaders, would you [b]really[/b] risk assets and values you believe in for something that would maybe happen a long long time from now? Of course you wouldn't. And that's why this whole mess is occurring in the first place. It's just too easy [b]not[/b] to make peace.[/QUOTE] I appreciate that it is essentially bred into them to hate each other but someones gotta break the cycle, and employing overwhelming force on the part of Israel doesn't help, and lets face it, that's what this is. If dropping bombs would help then it would have done so in that past but all it fucking does it justify what Hamas is doing to thei people of Gaza, they get the opportunity to go to the people and say "Look at what they're doing, dropping bombs on the homes of people like you and they won't stop until they've crushed us." All it's doing is fanning the flames, someone just needs to grow a pair and say, "look, this isn't helping anyone so lets compromise and work together to make our people more comfortable and happy."

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;36466023] All it's doing is fanning the flames, someone just needs to grow a pair and say, "look, this isn't helping anyone so lets compromise and work together to make our people more comfortable and happy."[/QUOTE] This is hard. Life isn't a video game, there's real people at the stakes. If you lead a country, will you be willing to risk the safety and actual lives of people for something that might happen if maybe the other side will be willing to accept you? Imagine trying to ease the situation and people die as a result. How would the public, that chose you to protect them, will feel? Shit, how would [b]you[/b] feel? You don't even realize the extent of hate the Palestinians feel towards us. You can see it in their eyes.

golly i can only wonder why they don't like israel i wouldn't really be a fan of people killing my countrymen and taking our land either

[QUOTE=Glorbo;36466237]This is hard. Life isn't a video game, there's real people at the stakes. If you lead a country, will you be willing to risk the safety and actual lives of people for something that might happen if maybe the other side will be willing to accept you? Imagine trying to ease the situation and people die as a result. How would the public, that chose you to protect them, will feel? Shit, how would [b]you[/b] feel? You don't even realize the extent of hate the Palestinians feel towards us. You can see it in their eyes.[/QUOTE] Do you not understand how the human mind works? Bombing people doesn't calm a situation, it's gonna get to the point of all out fucking war if someone doesn't man the fuck up and stop bombing the other. The beautiful part is that Israel has all the ability in the world to broker a deal to try and stop this shit but as far as I can see the Israeli government gets off on being abrasive as fuck. Seriously, slap up some more of those missile defence shield across the border with Gaza to the point that there is a one in a million chance and keep an exclusion zone between any population centers and the border so that if a missile does make it past it should hit dead land. Then once that's done, broker a deal with the people of Gaza so that whenever a missile [b]does[/b] get fired at the border or Israelis a rapid response team of Israeli and Gazan (is that even a term?) soldiers try to locate those who fired the missile and then take them into custody. Everyone wins that way and no poor sod in Gaza gets hit by a bomb and loses their house cause some cunthole militant shot a missile in their garden. I dunno maybe it's the fact that I'm sleep deprived but this all sounds like a working plan to me.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;36466288]Do you not understand how the human mind works? Bombing people doesn't calm a situation, it's gonna get to the point of all out fucking war if someone doesn't man the fuck up and stop bombing the other. The beautiful part is that Israel has all the ability in the world to broker a deal to try and stop this shit but as far as I can see the Israeli government gets off on being abrasive as fuck. Seriously, slap up some more of those missile defence shield across the border with Gaza to the point that there is a one in a million chance and keep an exclusion zone between any population centers and the border so that if a missile does make it past it should hit dead land. Then once that's done, broker a deal with the people of Gaza so that whenever a missile [b]does[/b] get fired at the border or Israelis a rapid response team of Israeli and Gazan (is that even a term?) soldiers try to locate those who fired the missile and then take them into custody. Everyone wins that way and no poor sod in Gaza gets hit by a bomb and loses their house cause some cunthole militant shot a missile in their garden. I dunno maybe it's the fact that I'm sleep deprived but this all sounds like a working plan to me.[/QUOTE] First and really only problem, Hamas. You aren't going to get a deal because they don't care about stopping the attacks, I'm still doubtful they aren't just more proxies. They don't really want peace, unless it's under their terms. This shit will continue to happen because as much as bombing doesn't help, not bombing and inaction pisses the Israeli side off even more.

Well if no ones gonna grow up and actually get the shit fixed and stop bombing each other, then I hope they have fun and enjoy their cesspit of hatred, fear, stupidity and bombs cause they clearly fucking deserve each other, it's just a fucking shame that there's innocent people caught in the middle.

Yep, it's a shitstorm. More than two players in it though and the West Bank PA aren't on terrible terms with Israel. Hamas is even trying to get in on it a bit. Also Netanyahu/Abbas fanfic, shows progress. [url]http://972mag.com/on-a-cold-night-in-jerusalem-bibi-and-abbas-finally-break-the-ice/28791/[/url]

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;36466288] Bombing people doesn't calm a situation, it's gonna get to the point of all out fucking war if someone doesn't man the fuck up and stop bombing the other.[/QUOTE] I didn't say it does. [QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;36466288]The beautiful part is that Israel has all the ability in the world to broker a deal to try and stop this shit but as far as I can see the Israeli government gets off on being abrasive as fuck.[/QUOTE] Because they don't trust the Palestinians to not stab them in the back. So they say "fuck it, whatever we'll do won't work anyway, let's try to score something for ourselves while we're at it." [QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;36466288]Seriously, slap up some more of those missile defence shield across the border with Gaza to the point that there is a one in a million chance and keep an exclusion zone between any population centers and the border so that if a missile does make it past it should hit dead land. Then once that's done, broker a deal with the people of Gaza so that whenever a missile [b]does[/b] get fired at the border or Israelis a rapid response team of Israeli and Gazan (is that even a term?) soldiers try to locate those who fired the missile and then take them into custody.[/QUOTE] That's not going to work. The missiles are either quickly fired and abandoned or shot by a timer. Even if there isn't going to be rockets, you think that they won't find another solution to the problem? There is no such think as a perfect defense. And why would anyone from Gaza help us at all? I think you fail to understand the main point here. They [b]hate[/b] us, and no treat or punishment is going to change that-Only a new generation which isn't educated to hate each other will agree to do that. The problem is that both sides got stabbed in the back by each other so many times (because the other side backstabbed them before) that they got fed up with even trying to come up with a peaceful solution. [QUOTE=Kopimi;36466280]golly i can only wonder why they don't like israel i wouldn't really be a fan of people killing my countrymen and taking our land either[/QUOTE] Way to completely miss the entire point. Don't you get it? The killing, the land, the suicide bombings, the rockets-they're the catalysts, they sparked the problem, they're not the ones prolonging it. Everybody pretends to give a shit about them, as if they're the fucking issue, but they're not, nobody gives a shit about them anymore, they only use them as reasons for not wanting to put effort into any sort of peace in the region. The Israeli mindset goes as follows- From the Israeli point of view, whatever they'll do, the Palestinians would still hate them and try to get at them. So they have two choices- Either give up land and move thousands of people away from their home for (what the Israelis think, at least) a paper agreement which means jack squat, or stay where they are and reap the benefits. The Palestinian mindset is pretty similar- From their point of view, whatever they'll do, the Israelis would still try to grab their land. So they have two choices- Either start negotiations and (what the Palestinians think, at least) have the Israelis steal their remaining land or keep doing what their doing and fight. Neither of these mindsets are going to change, they are rooted too deep into the heart of both societies, and only a fresh generation will be able to shake these off-But it's a complete catch 22, because in order for that to happen, the previous generation needs to actually build the next one. [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Devodiere;36466522] Also Netanyahu/Abbas fanfic, shows progress. [url]http://972mag.com/on-a-cold-night-in-jerusalem-bibi-and-abbas-finally-break-the-ice/28791/[/url][/QUOTE] There really is everything on the internet.

As I said the only way to break the cycle is for one side to man up and stop being a cunt to the other, which is gonna be easier for Israel since Israeli's don't feel oppressed. It's the only way it's gonna work, besides bombing hasn't worked so you might as well be nice.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;36466556]As I said the only way to break the cycle is for one side to man up and stop being a cunt to the other, which is gonna be easier for Israel since Israeli's don't feel oppressed. [/QUOTE] It's not just "stop being a cunt to the other guy", it's "stop being a cunt to the other guy for the next, say, 30 years". You also need to understand that some of the problem comes from the Palestinians economic situation- Poverty creates religious extremism, and religious extremism creates more violence, so you need to rebuild the West Bank/Gaza's economy and infrastructure as well. It's an impossible task, considering the amount of changes a country can go through in terms of leadership, economics and religion during that time. As Rowan Atkinson once said in Blackadder, "It's too much effort [b]not[/b] to have a war".

Well the fact of the matter is, it's either be nice to them, or continue dropping bombs on peoples houses so fuck it man it's in the hands of Israel and no one else.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;36466607]Well the fact of the matter is, it's either be nice to them, or continue dropping bombs on peoples houses so fuck it man it's in the hands of Israel and no one else.[/QUOTE] It's kind of impossible to make peace with only one side taking the initiative. Both sides need to take it at once, and in my opinion that's not going to happen during the current decade.

[QUOTE=Glorbo;36466663]It's kind of impossible to make peace with only one side taking the initiative. Both sides need to take it at once, and in my opinion that's not going to happen during the current decade.[/QUOTE] Obviously you should try and get both sides to be peaceful but if Israel stops giving people a reason to hate them then the over whelming majority will stop hating them. Have a strong anti-rocket defence so that they are practically a non-issue and try and be as pleasent as possible and give more aid to the people of Gaza and Palestine and people will start to change their opinion on Israel.

[QUOTE=The Pretender;36464936]It is in retaliation to rockets fired into Israel though, don't forget to mention that.[/QUOTE] And the casualties were citizens.