• Saudi Arabia to 'inoculate' children against Westernisation, atheism and liberalism
    67 replies, posted
[quote]Saudi Arabia is launching a programme to “inoculate” children against Westernisation, atheism, liberalism and secularism. They were listed as threats to “ideological security”, ahead of the danger from extremist groups including Isis and al-Qaeda and sectarianism. The education ministry’s plans were announced in the Makkah newspaper, the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) said, sparking a storm of debate and an Arabic hashtag translated as “Liberalism is a dangerous group” on Twitter. It follows another government project announced in March 2015 to “protect schoolboys and schoolgirls from deviant behaviour” by enforcing religious and moral values. Saudi critics labelled the latest initiative “danger to security” and a “disaster” for religious freedom and intellectual debate in Saudi Arabia. “Have you ever heard of a liberal who committed murder? Or of a secularist who blew himself up?” Nadine al-Budair asked on Twitter, while columnists at other Saudi newspapers accused the government of seeking to prevent free thought and prioritising a witch-hunt against “liberals” over the real terror threat from Isis and al-Qaeda. Saudi Arabia’s constitution enshrines Sunni Islam as the foundation for its governance and law, opening with the clause: “The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a sovereign Arab Islamic state with Islam as its religion; God's Book and the Sunnah of His Prophet, God's prayers and peace be upon him, are its constitution.”[/quote] [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-islam-inoculate-children-education-against-westernisation-atheism-liberalism-secularism-a7478761.html[/url]
Why are these people our allies, again?
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;51540694]Why are these people our allies, again?[/QUOTE] No, we just buy oil from them and given them the weapons needed to keep them selling oil to us.
The Saudi-US relationship is maintained through their agreement to only sell oil in U.S. dollars, which forces other countries to sell the U.S. goods and services if they want to buy oil from OPEC. The U.S. directly benefits from OPEC oil sales and in exchange we agree to sell them weapons and military equipment for some of the U.S. dollars they get from selling their oil.
[QUOTE=download;51540706]No, we just buy oil from them and given them the weapons needed to keep them selling oil to us.[/QUOTE]and supply them in the field in Yemen & elsewhere.. and work closely with their intelligence.. and form very close relations between US political figures and the royal family the US and others really don't care about their human rights violations or their oppression cause, well, why would they? we've been ignoring aspects of murderous regimes for decades, and installing them into power too cause we benefit. state powers caring about oppression or distasteful aspects of another state is usually based on some sort of political motive rather than some moral stand.
Sounds like we need to inoculate them against fanaticism, fascism and barbarism. Fuck the Prime Directive.
Didn't the US recently stop selling weapons to Saudi Arabia though?
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;51540816]Didn't the US recently stop selling weapons to Saudi Arabia though?[/QUOTE]they paused a $400 million sale of specific weapons, didn't pause a $3.5 billion helicopter sale to them though 🤔 it's just PR.
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;51540799]and supply them in the field in Yemen & elsewhere.. and work closely with their intelligence.. and form very close relations between US political figures and the royal family the US and others really don't care about their human rights violations or their oppression cause, well, why would they? we've been ignoring aspects of murderous regimes for decades, and installing them into power too cause we benefit. state powers caring about oppression or distasteful aspects of another state is usually based on some sort of political motive rather than some moral stand.[/QUOTE] So basically a modern triangular trade.
[QUOTE=download;51540706]No, we just buy oil from them and given them the weapons needed to keep them selling oil to us.[/QUOTE] It's a bit more complicated than we just buy their oil. Check the coal war.
Imagine the chaos if someone was talking about cultural inoculation against Islam.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51542002]Imagine the chaos if someone was talking about cultural inoculation against Islam.[/QUOTE] I know right! Just imagine the chaos if The Pope called Mother Teresa a cocksucker, but the lack of thereof when lucifer calls her one! Double standards, much!
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51542059]I know right! Just imagine the chaos if The Pope called Mother Teresa a cocksucker, but the lack of thereof when lucifer calls her one! Double standards, much![/QUOTE] excuse me what
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51542059]I know right! Just imagine the chaos if The Pope called Mother Teresa a cocksucker, but the lack of thereof when lucifer calls her one! Double standards, much![/QUOTE] ... what?
Westernization vaccinations cause Sunnism.
[QUOTE=CarnolfMeatla;51542111]what?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Egevened;51542089]excuse me what[/QUOTE] Lord M went into this thread disappointed in the fact that there wasn't any mention of Islam, so he decided to create his own by saying "Imagine the outrage if it was the other way around!", I made fun of that with an analogy. [editline]4[/editline] I honestly don't know exactly what his post was contributing to, or which narrative he was trying to push, but my best guess is that he's complaining about the fact that if the western world went against islam, there would be a lot of outrage compared to Saudi Arabia being Saudi Arabia. The reason why there's outrage against anti-islam bullshit is because The United States (and the west) is better than that. If the Pope said something offensive, of course he's going to get shit on because he's held to a higher standard. If lucifer himself said something offensive, most people wouldn't care that much because it's lucifer. I'm not trying to defend Saudi Arabia. What they're doing is fucking horrifying, but you shouldn't be shocked or surprised that such an ass backwards country is doing this sort of thing.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51542138]Lord M went into this thread disappointed in the fact that there wasn't any mention of Islam, so he decided to create his own by saying "Imagine the outrage if it was the other way around!"[/QUOTE] Are you trolling?
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51542141]Are you trolling?[/QUOTE] All of his posts are terrible, just add him to your ignore list and move along. On topic, I hope some day the Saudi people get the opportunity to elect a democratic government.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51542002]Imagine the chaos if someone was talking about cultural inoculation against Islam.[/QUOTE] Seriously. I feel like double standard here just exposes a lot about the leftist treatment of Islam.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51542156]Seriously. I feel like double standard here just exposes a lot about the leftist treatment of Islam.[/QUOTE] What double standard? Pretty sure the left would be pissed off that one culture is shitting on another culture.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51542138]Lord M went into this thread disappointed in the fact that there wasn't any mention of Islam, so he decided to create his own by saying "Imagine the outrage if it was the other way around!", I made fun of that with an analogy. [editline]4[/editline] I honestly don't know exactly what his post was contributing to, or which narrative he was trying to push, but my best guess is that he's complaining about the fact that if the western world went against islam, there would be a lot of outrage compared to Saudi Arabia being Saudi Arabia. The reason why there's outrage against anti-islam bullshit is because The United States (and the west) is better than that. If the Pope said something offensive, of course he's going to get shit on because he's held to a higher standard. If lucifer himself said something offensive, most people wouldn't care that much because it's lucifer. I'm not trying to defend Saudi Arabia. What they're doing is fucking horrifying, but you shouldn't be shocked or surprised that such an ass backwards country is doing this sort of thing.[/QUOTE] Why is the United States held to a higher standard? [editline]17th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51542158]What double standard? Pretty sure the left would be pissed off that one culture is shitting on another culture.[/QUOTE] Absolutely not. The left treats Islam with kid gloves. They basically work off the assumption that Muslim have no agency and everything bad in the Muslim world or everything bad a Muslim does is caused by/a reaction to the evil white man. Thus, Islamic culture is off the hook because everything wrong with it isn't their fault.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51542159]Why is the United States held to a higher standard?[/QUOTE] Because The United States isn't garbage like Saudi Arabia. It's more shocking when a decent country does something terrible, and less shocking when a garbage country does something garbage. It's like comparing a toddler to an adult. If a toddler had it's toys taken away, it would likely start crying and that's expected. If an adult had his gameboy taken away, it would be an absolute surprise if he or she started crying.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51542002]Imagine the chaos if someone was talking about cultural inoculation against Islam.[/QUOTE] sean hannity? newt?
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51542159]Absolutely not. The left treats Islam with kid gloves. They basically work off the assumption that Muslim have no agency and everything bad in the Muslim world or everything bad a Muslim does is caused by/a reaction to the evil white man. Thus, Islamic culture is off the hook because everything wrong with it isn't their fault.[/QUOTE] Ok gotcha, you're generalizing an entire political ideology like Social Justice Warriors do when they claim that the right are full of racist sexists.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51542059]I know right! Just imagine the chaos if The Pope called Mother Teresa a cocksucker, but the lack of thereof when lucifer calls her one! Double standards, much![/QUOTE] "when you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes back into you." But seriously, what happened here. Lets all stick to the topic at hand and not fling accusations to the other side, everyone. Anyways, children are very easily indoctrinated. To brainwash them with any agenda should not be stood for
[QUOTE=da space core;51542226]Anyways, children are very easily indoctrinated. To brainwash them with any agenda should not be stood for[/QUOTE] What gets me upset is that nothing can be done or people don't have the balls to get something rational done so it's impossible to touch Saudia Arabia. I honestly can't wait until ISIS is dealt with. Obviously defeating ISIS won't instantly bring peace to the middle east, but it would be a massive step if ISIS is dealt with properly.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51542156]Seriously. I feel like double standard here just exposes a lot about the leftist treatment of Islam.[/QUOTE] What double standard exactly? Everybody is saying SA is shit. (by this i mean the establishment there) "innoculation against islam" is a shit idea because 1) its shit 2) we're better than saudi arabia and don't need to copy their shit Wise up plx [editline]17th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Pantz Master;51542159]Why is the United States held to a higher standard? [/QUOTE] Because our (American especially but western european generally) has a generally liberal (not the kind you grind your teeth about but the kind where the gov isn't meant to nose around in what we do) culture. If you want the kind of oppression where people are told what they can and can't believe in then move to Saudi Arabia, North Korea or IS occupied Syria.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51542159]Why is the United States held to a higher standard? [editline]17th December 2016[/editline] Absolutely not. The left treats Islam with kid gloves. They basically work off the assumption that Muslim have no agency and everything bad in the Muslim world or everything bad a Muslim does is caused by/a reaction to the evil white man. Thus, Islamic culture is off the hook because everything wrong with it isn't their fault.[/QUOTE] Muslims have agency. I am no fan of Islam, or organized religion in general. I find religious studies and theology fascinating as fuck - as sociology and history, not lifestyle. I vehemently criticize Wahhabism and Salafism and any other fundamentalist far-right ultra-conservative sects of Islam for being fucking ass-backwards disgusting bullshit. I have no patience for violence, and violence in the name of Islam is violence and is equally as unacceptable as any other form of political or religious violence. What you view as "the left treating Islam with kid gloves" is the left defending the value of the western value of religious freedom and plurality. It's defending individual freedoms. The complicated part of the relationship between Islam and the West is that fundamentalist violent Islam is largely a reaction to Western imperialism and Western intervention - at least in the Middle East. Hell, you can look back to the mid-1800s to the early 1900s to see the Ottoman Empire trying to radically reform itself in response to Western imperialism [I]by adopting Western values in order to compete with them.[/I] The Ottomans decriminalized homosexuality far earlier than the West, and there were mass movements promoting rationalism and logic and science as necessary to the teaching of Islam, with people like Muhammad Abduh calling for individual interpretation and breaking away from direct teaching through Imams. People were justifying gender equality using Muslim texts in this time period. But it fell apart, really rapidly. Except in a few places. Why? The West got involved after the Ottomans collapsed. The Muslim world was in the process of being forced to adopt Western values in order to compete - [I]exactly[/I] like happened in Asia and China not long before. China succeeded and developed the Republic of China, adopting Western political structure and values and becoming a sizable force to be reckoned with while pushing back against Western imperialism. Most of the Middle East failed to do this. The Ottoman Empires got sliced up. France got control of Syria and suppressed nationalist movements that tried to form a unified national identity. Turkey, in the meantime, managed to successfully repel attempts to split up Anatolia and the League of Nations mandate and adopted secularism and multiple Western values (that lasted half decently until pretty recently). Other places either required authoritarian rule to maintain those Western values - which pissed of the locals and caused pushback against "westernism" in general. In Iran, a democratically-elected secular socialist was coup'd by the US and the UK after he tried to nationalize oil interests, and a religious leader was given full control. How does that look to the locals? Does that makes Western values look great - when the West actively interrupts those ideas? Saying "The left thinks Muslims have no agency" is such a stupid, stupid oversimplification. I think they do - and I think that these radical fundamentalists have demonized Western culture and Western values in part due to the West dicking around in their shit for so long. The West is absolutely at partial fault. If you introduce a society to cereal, and they go "hey this cereal isn't all that bad, we should start eating this with some local spin," nice, someone else enjoys cereal just like you do. But then if you piss in their cereal over and over, they might stop liking cereal. They might get pissed off if you talk about how great cereal is while you have your dick out pissing into their bowl of Cheerios. They might actively reject cereal and throw it into your face when you offer it to them. So it goes with the West, Western values, and the Muslim world.
Shit-hole country still living in medieval times that basically wants to legalise indoctrination. I truly feel sorry for normal folks who live in this backwards countries where religion makes up their laws.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;51542456]Muslims have agency. I am no fan of Islam, or organized religion in general. I find religious studies and theology fascinating as fuck - as sociology and history, not lifestyle. I vehemently criticize Wahhabism and Salafism and any other fundamentalist far-right ultra-conservative sects of Islam for being fucking ass-backwards disgusting bullshit. I have no patience for violence, and violence in the name of Islam is violence and is equally as unacceptable as any other form of political or religious violence. What you view as "the left treating Islam with kid gloves" is the left defending the value of the western value of religious freedom and plurality. It's defending individual freedoms. The complicated part of the relationship between Islam and the West is that fundamentalist violent Islam is largely a reaction to Western imperialism and Western intervention - at least in the Middle East. Hell, you can look back to the mid-1800s to the early 1900s to see the Ottoman Empire trying to radically reform itself in response to Western imperialism [I]by adopting Western values in order to compete with them.[/I] The Ottomans decriminalized homosexuality far earlier than the West, and there were mass movements promoting rationalism and logic and science as necessary to the teaching of Islam, with people like Muhammad Abduh calling for individual interpretation and breaking away from direct teaching through Imams. People were justifying gender equality using Muslim texts in this time period. But it fell apart, really rapidly. Except in a few places. Why? The West got involved after the Ottomans collapsed. The Muslim world was in the process of being forced to adopt Western values in order to compete - [I]exactly[/I] like happened in Asia and China not long before. China succeeded and developed the Republic of China, adopting Western political structure and values and becoming a sizable force to be reckoned with while pushing back against Western imperialism. Most of the Middle East failed to do this. The Ottoman Empires got sliced up. France got control of Syria and suppressed nationalist movements that tried to form a unified national identity. Turkey, in the meantime, managed to successfully repel attempts to split up Anatolia and the League of Nations mandate and adopted secularism and multiple Western values (that lasted half decently until pretty recently). Other places either required authoritarian rule to maintain those Western values - which pissed of the locals and caused pushback against "westernism" in general. In Iran, a democratically-elected secular socialist was coup'd by the US and the UK after he tried to nationalize oil interests, and a religious leader was given full control. How does that look to the locals? Does that makes Western values look great - when the West actively interrupts those ideas? Saying "The left thinks Muslims have no agency" is such a stupid, stupid oversimplification. I think they do - and I think that these radical fundamentalists have demonized Western culture and Western values in part due to the West dicking around in their shit for so long. The West is absolutely at partial fault. If you introduce a society to cereal, and they go "hey this cereal isn't all that bad, we should start eating this with some local spin," nice, someone else enjoys cereal just like you do. But then if you piss in their cereal over and over, they might stop liking cereal. They might get pissed off if you talk about how great cereal is while you have your dick out pissing into their bowl of Cheerios. They might actively reject cereal and throw it into your face when you offer it to them. So it goes with the West, Western values, and the Muslim world.[/QUOTE] Thanks for the history lesson, but all of that was pretty much a non-sequitor. You basically just said "you're wrong, the left [I]does[/I] give Muslims agency!" and then you didn't back up that claim at all. My problem with the left is thus: If we lived in a world that had 1.7 billion Mormons, the left would flip out and do everything in their power to ridicule, criticize, and ultimately demonize the religion. They would not stop talking about it. It would be among the left's list of biggest problems with the world. Why? Because Mormonism is a religion of white westerners. They are the oppressors! Their oppression must be resisted by brave souls who dare to stand up to the evil Mormon lobby! What we have instead is a religion of 1.7 billion people that is [I]worse[/I] than Mormonism when it comes to the average adherent's beliefs and values. "Moderate Islam", meaning the median belief structure among the world population of Muslims, ranks worse than anything seen in Europe or the United States. But instead of criticism we find the left making common cause with apologists, and even extremists at times for this religion. See Glenn Greenwald's Twitter, or the entire Young Turks Channel on YouTube for evidence of this. IF the reality was that Islam was simply a peaceful religion, under assault from all sides by an evil Western effort to suppress and marginalize Muslims, that would be another story. But we see what Europe has done to accommodate Muslims. No other society in the history of the world has been so welcoming to outsiders. Muslims are not a victimized group in the world, especially in the West (overall). The leftist narrative is a lie.
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