When Big Carnivores Go Down, Even Vegetarians Take The Hit - Polidicks

[URL="http://www.npr.org/2014/01/10/261120968/when-big-carnivores-go-down-even-vegetarians-take-the-hit"]NPR Story[/URL] [quote=NPR]Big, fierce animals — lions and tigers and bears, for example — are relatively scarce in nature. That's normal, because if you have too many, they'll eat themselves out of prey. But top predators are now so rare that many are in danger of disappearing. That's creating ripple effects throughout the natural world that scientists are still trying to figure out. What they're exploring is ecology — the interplay of animals and plants in nature. It's not rocket science. It's harder. "We're dealing with the most complicated systems in the universe, and we hardly even know what the moving parts are," says Rolf Peterson, a research ecologist at Michigan Tech. Peterson studies large carnivores, and is among the world's top wolf experts. He and scientists like him are finding that as the number of big predators dwindles, everything around the animals changes. It's like a "cascade" down the food chain. Ecologists call it a trophic cascade — trophic being a term to define any particular level in nature's food chain[/quote] Wolves used to have the largest known marked territory only rivaled by humans. Guess what it looks like now.

[quote][b]"What they're exploring is ecology — the interplay of animals and plants in nature. It's not rocket science. It's harder."[/b][/quote] I love it when I actually see recognition of that fact

Lots of small animals die to wheat harvest and other similar methods of farming.

I watched a short documentary about one specific area in the US and the effects "wolf hunts" were having on it. Government started cracking down and within a few years plant life on the hills and plains had multiplied many times over. Lots of people don't realize how serious of a problem deer and similar animals can be. Deer eat EVERYTHING. We need the wolves back.

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;43488554]I watched a short documentary about one specific area in the US and the effects "wolf hunts" were having on it. Government started cracking down and within a few years plant life on the hills and plains had multiplied many times over. Lots of people don't realize how serious of a problem deer and similar animals can be. Deer eat EVERYTHING. We need the wolves back.[/QUOTE] Not as bad as some areas where wolves are no completely gone. So they brought in Coyotes, and now have a coyote problem...*Cough*new jersey*cough*

[QUOTE=Swilly;43488566]Not as bad as some areas where wolves are no completely gone. So they brought in Coyotes, and now have a coyote problem...*Cough*new jersey*cough*[/QUOTE] Coyotes are just gross, raggedy rat wolves.

We're a plague, we kill everything. If herbivores numbers start rising because of lack of predators, we'll kill them too. And if their number don't actually rise, we'll kill them anyway just because... it's sad. We'll not actually just because, more like as a result of our civilization expanding... I truly hope this tendency changes before it's too late.

[QUOTE=ah!panic;43488634]we're a plague, we kill everything. If herbivores numbers start rising because of lack of predators, we'll kill them too. and if their number don't actually rise, we'll kill them anyway just because... it's sad.[/QUOTE] We're not a plague, its a frankly mistaken romantic idea that's commonly proposed. We don't fully understand the planet we live on still, its like a child being given that different shaped object hole toy. We're slamming the cylinder into the square and it fits but gets stuck.

[QUOTE=Swilly;43488663]We're not a plague, its a frankly mistaken romantic idea that's commonly proposed. We don't fully understand the planet we live on still, its like a child being given that different shaped object hole toy. We're slamming the cylinder into the square and it fits but gets stuck.[/QUOTE] "Plague or The plague is a disease that has a high mortality rate or a calamity with widespread and serious consequences for its victims." I'm sorry, but I think we fit pretty well in that term. I wish you were right though, and I have to agree that not all of us are the same and it's not a single individuals fault. Some changes are being made and we're changing our behavior and morals. Lets hope the changes come fast enough before more things are permanently wiped out.

[QUOTE=ah!panic;43488814]"Plague or The plague is a disease that has a high mortality rate or a calamity with widespread and serious consequences for its victims." I'm sorry, but I think we fit pretty well in that term. I wish you were right though, and I have to agree that not all of us are the same and it's not a single individuals fault. Some changes are being made and we're changing our behavior and morals. Lets hope the changes come fast enough before more things are permanently wiped out.[/QUOTE] i consider us more of a fungus

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;43488895]i consider us more of a fungus[/QUOTE] Penicillin came from fungus, we are parasites

i love how everybody talks about how shitty people are in general, but never talk about how shitty they are themselves. hard to believe you people can compare all of humanity to funguses and diseases, you must really hate yourselves.

I called us children, I love kids. :U

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43489080]i love how everybody talks about how shitty people are in general, but never talk about how shitty they are themselves. hard to believe you people can compare all of humanity to funguses and diseases, you must really hate yourselves.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://s27.postimg.org/fssez0btf/lol.jpg[/IMG]

no snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible. realistically humans are just part of nature, we aren't worse than other species just because there are some people who have done bad things. infact humans are every other species best chance of getting off this rock.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43489267]no snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible. realistically humans are just part of nature, we aren't worse than other species just because there are some people who have done bad things. infact humans are every other species best chance of getting off this rock.[/QUOTE] Off course we aren't worse than any other specie, but we can't use as excuse the fact that it were others from our specie, and not ourselves, causing the harm to not care about what's happening. Well, actually we can, but if no single individuals stand out and actually do something, we'll uncontrollably consume all the resources from our planet. And that's not just bad for the planet itself off course. Like all plagues, once everything is consumed, you move to somewhere else, but once there is nowhere else to go what should we do? move to another planet? is it a real possibility? I think its safe to say keeping Earth clean and balanced is probably our best chance for surviving as a specie and to live well in healthy conditions as individuals. Taking the focus from ourselves, it's also better for the other inhabitants of our planet, animals and plants. We were born with the ability to feel compassion, so why not care for others as well? I'm not against you nor anyone and I don't want to be an hypocrite, I just feel that people are not sufficiently aware of this. If more people are concern about this subject, maybe if one day they get the chance to make decisions which might have some influence, they will consider their options in a different way and do a more environmental friendly choice. Meanwhile, we can always recycle, turn of the lights at night and the rest of the stuff that we all know, doing so eases my conscience a little at least. Sorry for the wall of text, it's just a topic that moves me a bit.

Sure is Na'vi in here.

[QUOTE=ah!panic;43488814]"Plague or The plague is a disease that has a high mortality rate or a calamity with widespread and serious consequences for its victims." I'm sorry, but I think we fit pretty well in that term.[/QUOTE] did you just steal that from the matrix [editline]10th January 2014[/editline] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Na9-jV_OJI[/media] lmao sort of

[QUOTE=ah!panic;43488634]We're a plague, we kill everything. If herbivores numbers start rising because of lack of predators, we'll kill them too. And if their number don't actually rise, we'll kill them anyway just because... it's sad. We'll not actually just because, more like as a result of our civilization expanding... I truly hope this tendency changes before it's too late.[/QUOTE] No, we're merely the most successful animal in the entire ecosystem. So successful we attempt to change the ecosystem to fit our needs, but often make mistakes. And in drive to change and adapt the ecosystem, we create completely new niches for animals, many of which were getting pushed out even before humans showed up. Rats, Pidgeons, eagles or even foxes or raccoons are great examples.

[QUOTE=Swilly;43488566]Not as bad as some areas where wolves are no completely gone. So they brought in Coyotes, and now have a coyote problem...*Cough*new jersey*cough*[/QUOTE]When wolves go, all the other asshole predators show up. I particularly do not like coyotes, they're a constant nuisance and I've probably put about a thousand dollars of .30-30 ammunition into defending livestock from them. Coyotes breed faster, are more opportunistic, tend to be much more bold (they will go up to your fucking [i]house[/i] to steal a cat) so I don't get why wolves get the bad rap. In fact, during my entire lifetime I've seen [i]one[/i] wolf near here in the wild, and I saw it darting across an isolated rural road. Maybe at one time they were more visible and perhaps would take an animal here and there but I highly, [i]highly[/i] doubt they've ever been as much of a frustration as coyotes.

[QUOTE=wraithcat;43492951]No, we're merely the most successful animal in the entire ecosystem. So successful we attempt to change the ecosystem to fit our needs, but often make mistakes. And in drive to change and adapt the ecosystem, we create completely new niches for animals, many of which were getting pushed out even before humans showed up. Rats, Pidgeons, eagles or even foxes or raccoons are great examples.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeSMPESpxdA[/media] Humans do what most other animals do, we effect the ecosystem with our natural way of living. The only thing that makes us different from the other animals is that we're AWARE that we're doing it.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;43495608]When wolves go, all the other asshole predators show up. I particularly do not like coyotes, they're a constant nuisance and I've probably put about a thousand dollars of .30-30 ammunition into defending livestock from them. Coyotes breed faster, are more opportunistic, tend to be much more bold (they will go up to your fucking [i]house[/i] to steal a cat) so I don't get why wolves get the bad rap. In fact, during my entire lifetime I've seen [i]one[/i] wolf near here in the wild, and I saw it darting across an isolated rural road. Maybe at one time they were more visible and perhaps would take an animal here and there but I highly, [i]highly[/i] doubt they've ever been as much of a frustration as coyotes.[/QUOTE] Also rabid coyotes are fucking terrifying.

It's simple as fuck. Carnivores = Population Cullers. No predators = prey thrives and consumes all resources eventually causing itself to fail. We're taught this in school, carnivores are needed to keep the ecological balance.