First off, im not sure if this belongs on mass debate but it has to do with how alot of kids today (that i know of) are raised, which is certainly controversial. Well, some kids just seem illiterate so to speak, i think every parent should read to their child because its just early development of the english language. Ive been reading well over my grade level since i was 6 in the first grade, and i see kids today struggling to read average books. Lets get some input.
Could you define "struggling to read average books"? Could you have a mental illness that puts you above your peers in reading ability, causing the "average" for you to not be the real average?
I'm fairly certain he's referring to when a kid is asked to read, say, "The quick fox jumped over the lazy brown dog" and they say it as "The... quick... fox... jum...ped... over... " (etc)
Really frustrating for people like me, I understand that the person can't help it but it annoys me unless there's a good reason (eg, disability).
What do you claim to be average books? Acclaimed novels, academic history books, Steven King horror books? All of these require a vastly different amount of difficulty to read, and if you can only read said Steven King horror novels, does it really matter if you are not seeking to go into academia?
In terms of being 'illiterate', I would argue that you are simply trying to act superior to others by being condescending towards others by using long words in average conversations or by not using excessive fillers such as 'like'. Are they really illiterate if they can read and speak well enough to function in society? You would be hard pressed to argue a lot of people cannot read or speak well enough to do that.
I do agree that reading to your children is helpful, but in my opinion mainly to try and encourage children to read books, which may become a habit which sticks with them even when they are older. I personally don't know much about the science of education of children, but I'm pretty sure I just learned a lot of more difficult words in standard conversation or at school or even just over time.
[editline]26th August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=EpicRandomnes;45803885]I'm fairly certain he's referring to when a kid is asked to read, say, "The quick fox jumped over the lazy brown dog" and they say it as "The... quick... fox... jum...ped... over... " (etc)
Really frustrating for people like me, I understand that the person can't help it but it annoys me unless there's a good reason (eg, disability).[/QUOTE]
If that's the case, then who cares? How often in every day life outside of school do you have to read to people?
I've met people who seem the most 'illiterate' yet are exceptionally fast readers so I'm honestly not sure why you even made the thread
Some people will never be great readers no matter how much or what they read, and you're basing this on how someone speaks
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;45803907]What do you claim to be average books? Acclaimed novels, academic history books, Steven King horror books? All of these require a vastly different amount of difficulty to read, and if you can only read said Steven King horror novels, does it really matter if you are not seeking to go into academia?
In terms of being 'illiterate', I would argue that you are simply trying to act superior to others by being condescending towards others by using long words in average conversations or by not using excessive fillers such as 'like'. Are they really illiterate if they can read and speak well enough to function in society? You would be hard pressed to argue a lot of people cannot read or speak well enough to do that.
I do agree that reading to your children is helpful, but in my opinion mainly to try and encourage children to read books, which may become a habit which sticks with them even when they are older. I personally don't know much about the science of education of children, but I'm pretty sure I just learned a lot of more difficult words in standard conversation or at school or even just over time.
[editline]26th August 2014[/editline]
If that's the case, then who cares? How often in every day life outside of school do you have to read to people?[/QUOTE]
Sorry, should have clarified. I [I]don't[/I] have the "illiteracy" issue. Read over what I said a bit, I'll admit it could have been made clearer
[QUOTE=EpicRandomnes;45803885]I'm fairly certain he's referring to when a kid is asked to read, say, "The quick fox jumped over the lazy brown dog" and they say it as "The... quick... fox... jum...ped... over... " (etc)
Really frustrating for people like me, I understand that the person can't help it but it annoys me unless there's a good reason (eg, disability).[/QUOTE]
To be honest, if that happens in grade 1-3 then I don't see a single issue with exactly that. The issues start when you get highschoolers who are unable to read things relatively quickly.
Mind you, I'm talking about people who don't suffer from some learning disability like dyslexia which does make reading and particularly reading aloud much harder.
Every generation believes the following one is dumber. This has been a pattern throughout history.
Give me some citations that the new generation is worse at reading and comprehension.
“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”
― Socrates, ~450 BC
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;45803698]Could you define "struggling to read average books"? Could you have a mental illness that puts you above your peers in reading ability, causing the "average" for you to not be the real average?[/QUOTE]
kids reading rags like hunger games and thinking its original when its already been done by way better authors decades before
kids today aren't taught to read for pleasure, the schools put emphasis on reading for the sake of being able to read instead of reading books because you want to. my highschool had for a few years a sci-fi english class, tons of people failed it because they couldn't be assed to read [I]"i am legend"[/I] or [I]"the invisible man"[/I] or even [I]"dr. jeckle"[/I] maybe they weren't interested but i always felt like the only person in my school carrying around big thick books to read as well as my text books
[editline]26th August 2014[/editline]
i don't think theres a reading problem, there's a problem with kids wanting to read stuff
[QUOTE=EpicRandomnes;45803885]I'm fairly certain he's referring to when a kid is asked to read, say, "The quick fox jumped over the lazy brown dog" and they say it as "The... quick... fox... jum...ped... over... " (etc)
Really frustrating for people like me, I understand that the person can't help it but it annoys me unless there's a good reason (eg, disability).[/QUOTE]
Reading for yourself and reading for other people are two different things. When you read for yourself, you don't actually say anything, so you go faster. If you're used to such a speed when mentally reading, you may sometimes bump into a word because you were way ahead and forgot it was there. It happens to me sometimes, and I'm like "oh no, I must look so dumb right now, having failed to read this". Don't know if I made myself clear. Of course, it doesn't apply to people who stop every other word.
Making children read may also improve their writing, as most books (if not all) are written in proper language. No "should of", no their/they're, your/you're confusion, plus they would learn how to make correct sentences, when to use a word instead of another, and so on...
[QUOTE=Sableye;45804614]kids reading rags like hunger games and thinking its original when its already been done by way better authors decades before[/QUOTE]
Well, at least they read something. You can't really expect people to start by reading Nietzche, Marx or Schopenhauer. School may lack these easy-to-read stuff. I remeber reading awfully complicated texts when I was young, and if it hadn't be for the books I had at home it would have been the best repellent. It's like introducing someone to video games by showing thew i wanna be the guy.
[QUOTE=BlueChihuahua;45804575]
“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”
― Socrates, ~450 BC[/QUOTE]
Socrates did not say this and I wish people would stop saying he did.
[quote] In that same issue, under the heading “Side Lines,” pp. 5–6, is a summary of the efforts of researchers and scholars to confirm the wording of Socrates, or Plato, but without success. Evidently, the quotation is spurious.[/quote]
[url]http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0241:card%3D961[/url]
It's paraphrased from a comedy play featuring a character that is a caricature of socrates.
I'm apologizing then.
I grew up reading more than watching television not because my parents read to me, but because I saw my father doing that and I aimed to imitate him.
Hopefully my kids will do so as well.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45811602]I grew up reading more than watching television not because my parents read to me, but because I saw my father doing that and I aimed to imitate him.
Hopefully my kids will do so as well.[/QUOTE]
Well, when I first started using the internet it took me a few months to get involved in any kind of fandom. Fortunately, it was the LEGO Universe (RIP) one, and the majority of people there used proper grammar and spelling, and that was how I learned and remembered what things like commas, etc were used for and when to use them. I was brilliant at reading, terrible at writing. Just glad I saw these guys doing stuff like that and adapted to it.
[QUOTE=Redswandir;45804034]I've met people who seem the most 'illiterate' yet are exceptionally fast readers so I'm honestly not sure why you even made the thread
Some people will never be great readers no matter how much or what they read, and you're basing this on how someone speaks[/QUOTE]
I think youre failing to understand the definition of "illiterate" which has nothing to do with how well one speaks and everything to do with how well they read. Those fast readers you mentioned cant possibly be illiterate. Im not talking about people using fillers in conversations or written on paper, anybody with dyslexia or any other type of learning disability, im talking about an average kid who has noticeable difficulties reading and or writing. I was always read to as a child this does not make me superior in any way but when i was in school i could pick out the kids who probably werent read to. Of course we all learn new words or phrases as we get older, thats life but do we learn new things because of our age or our openness to learn them?
[editline]27th August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=EpicRandomnes;45813686]Well, when I first started using the internet it took me a few months to get involved in any kind of fandom. Fortunately, it was the LEGO Universe (RIP) one, and the majority of people there used proper grammar and spelling, and that was how I learned and remembered what things like commas, etc were used for and when to use them. I was brilliant at reading, terrible at writing. Just glad I saw these guys doing stuff like that and adapted to it.[/QUOTE]
Which is exceptionally fair, ive always been great at spelling but writing was never my strong point and i have learned a great deal simply from reading posts on sites like this one. Is it our age that gives us knowledge or is it our desire to learn?
[editline]27th August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=wraithcat;45804474]To be honest, if that happens in grade 1-3 then I don't see a single issue with exactly that. The issues start when you get highschoolers who are unable to read things relatively quickly.
Mind you, I'm talking about people who don't suffer from some learning disability like dyslexia which does make reading and particularly reading aloud much harder.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, You're pretty much dead on. I also feel that helping your child learn to be a better reader is to read to them outside of school as well, school isnt all its cracked up to be, i honestly dont feel i learned too much from it save for learning how to cope with assholes and letting things go and to move on.
I've learned more history from personal reading than I ever did in school high school or below, same goes for science, philosophy, economics, government, etc. If kids aren't reading, then they are dooming themselves to a life if ignorance because it's rare for someone to start reading at an older age if they didn't read at all as a kid (<18 y/o).
There's a reason all the great mind throughout history also almost all happened to be avid readers. People simply don't understand how much of an every day activity reading was to the intelligent people of the past. Instead of using social media... they read books, instead of watching TV... they read books, instead of playing video games... they read books, etc., etc., etc. They're free time was spent learning more and more about the world and other people's ideas.
I'm not sure if its the drive to read, or if just the simple knowing how to read and being able to interpret it in your own way that would make it so appealing, probably the latter. I remember I would read books and love them like "the outsiders" back when I was in school and when I seen the movie on film it completely destroyed how I had the book set up in my mind. I also loved my tv and my Super Nintendo, I sure as heck had my 18 hour game sessions even at 8 yrs old, but on the same note I had plenty times where I would tear through 3 or 4 books in a day. I don't read as many books as I should now, but I still grab a dictionary when I see a word I don't know, and some people really do have some ideas that blow my mind.
[QUOTE=Itolkweed;45790948]First off, im not sure if this belongs on mass debate but it has to do with how alot of kids today (that i know of) are raised, which is certainly controversial. Well, some kids just seem illiterate so to speak, i think every parent should read to their child because its just early development of the english language. Ive been reading well over my grade level since i was 6 in the first grade, and i see kids today struggling to read average books. Lets get some input.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's just an issue with this generation, seems to be that every generation has people who won't pick up reading as well.
As an example my stepdad reads like in the example that was put of a 1-3 grader, but as a kid I picked up reading very fast (by year 7 I used to read two books side-by-side simultaneously, but I don't really read books anymore). I would say it's not so much the parent's fault but just that some kids are just genetically geared better towards reading/writing, and others are geared towards other things.
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