BMW to ditch manuals, limit power - Polidicks

[quote=drive.com.au]BMW looks set to be closing in on revolutionary changes to the way it does performance cars. The German car maker has told English publication Autocar that it may soon ditch manual transmissions and [b]limit power outputs to 450kW, as it focuses on producing smarter, more efficient high-end sports cars.[/b] "From a technical standpoint, the future doesn't look bright for manual gearboxes. [b]The DCT (dual-clutch transmission) and auto (torque converter) gearboxes are faster and they have better fuel consumption,"[/b] the recently appointed boss of BMW's venerable M-division, Frank van Meel, told Autocar, before implying it would be some time before the change took effect. "It's difficult to say we'll stick to the manual, but we still have a big fan community for manuals and we are not going to take away something the customer wants to have." [b]Sales data shows that manual transmissions make up about 5 per cent of BMW's total M car sales[/b] – as many purists convert over to the latest self-shifting technology.[/quote] [url]http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/bmw-to-ditch-manuals-limit-power-report-20150706-gi6jhc.html?&utm_source=social&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=nc&eid=socialn:fac-14omn0045-optim-nnn:nonpaid-25062014-social_traffic-all-organicpost-nnn-drive-o&campaign_code=nocode&promote_channel=social_facebook[/url]

Honestly automatics these days are better than manuals, gone are the days of ye olde slushbox.

Limiting power to 600hp, as if most cars go above it...... wtf

[QUOTE=christarp;48139091]Honestly automatics these days are better than manuals, gone are the days of ye olde slushbox.[/QUOTE] Some automatics do shift quicker than a manual ever possibly could, however I'd still drive a manual purely for the feel and for the clutch. Those BMW manual transmissions are really nice, even their old ones. Pretty sad to see BMW ditch the manual for good, even if it's only in the M segment.

[QUOTE=christarp;48139091]Honestly automatics these days are better than manuals, gone are the days of ye olde slushbox.[/QUOTE] The cost of an auto is minimally larger than manual, but it was once bigger, that's why it's pretty much a tradition (at least here) that your first car is a manual. I suppose seeing as we get last generation's old shit for a first car then the next generation will own mostly automatic.

[quote]Sales data shows that manual transmissions make up about 5 per cent of BMW's total M car sales[/quote] This is a self fulfilling prophecy because of BMW shifting the target market of the M Series to executives who want something "sporty" yet it never does more than 40mph in city traffic. The fact the manual-only 1m coupe from a few years back sold out pretty much straight away and BMW had to produce more of what was only going to be a limited run car shows the market is still there for manual sporty cars, just this isn't the market that BMW wants (and there is probably more $ doing it this way so you can't blame them)

[QUOTE=maxolina;48139110]Limiting power to 600hp, as if most cars go above it...... wtf[/QUOTE] Applies mostly to BMW Ms. They do make twin-turbo V8s so it's not awfully unreasonable for them to get close to that. They'll also hit that limit faster on all models as they continue to expand their hybrid technology across their model range.

Just because the source has a clickbait title doesn't mean you need to copy that [quote]It's difficult to say we'll stick to the manual, but we still have a big fan community for manuals and we are not going to take away something the customer wants to have.[/quote]

Even Ferrari and Porsche are going to automatics. Car guys don't want to admit it but driving a manual is a niche market now. This is in the US market, I don't know what works best in other countries.

A DCT transmission and a traditional Torque-Converter Automatic are very, VERY different things. The fact that people call Dual-Clutches Automatics really undermines what they are.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;48139265]Even Ferrari and Porsche are going to automatics. Car guys don't want to admit it but driving a manual is a niche market now. This is in the US market, I don't know what works best in other countries.[/QUOTE] Actually car guys love admitting that manuals are a niche market, it makes them feel superior to other drivers.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;48139265]Even Ferrari and Porsche are going to automatics. Car guys don't want to admit it but driving a manual is a niche market now. This is in the US market, I don't know what works best in other countries.[/QUOTE] Semi auto

Newfies and BMW both confirmed to be pussies.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;48139333]Actually car guys love admitting that manuals are a niche market, it makes them feel superior to other drivers.[/QUOTE] Going to go on a limb here but if we analyse the transmission question through superiority, the manual transmission would in theory be superior to the automatic by US law as you may drive both a manual and an automatic if you get your license in a manual car, but if you take your license in an automatic, you're limited to those. Not much to say about the rest of the world as you must take your license in a manual car. On the article, I haven't been able to find any other sources claiming this. Anyone able to find more?

Probably the best way to go [editline]7th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Jackpody;48139374]Going to go on a limb here but if we analyse the transmission question through superiority, the manual transmission would in theory be superior to the automatic by US law as you may drive both a manual and an automatic if you get your license in a manual car, but if you take your license in an automatic, you're limited to those. Not much to say about the rest of the world as you must take your license in a manual car. On the article, I haven't been able to find any other sources claiming this. Anyone able to find more?[/QUOTE] Difficulty != superiority

[QUOTE=michaeldim;48139291]A DCT transmission and a traditional Torque-Converter Automatic are very, VERY different things. The fact that people call Dual-Clutches Automatics really undermines what they are.[/QUOTE] But a dual-clutch gearbox is an automatic? The gears are selected by the computer, the only human input is when instructing the computer to switch engagement between the odd and even gear sets. Automatic is an umbrella term for transmissions with automated gear ratio changes ie not actuated through muscle power. Torque converter+epicyclic gearing combos, dual-clutches and CVTs are all automatics.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;48139446]Probably the best way to go [editline]7th July 2015[/editline] Difficulty != superiority[/QUOTE] I don't think you quite understood my post - I never even mentioned anything to do with difficulty (it isn't difficult to drive a manual, probably more cumbersome for the first few times if you're new to it but definitely not 'difficult'.) It's illegal to drive a manual car in the US if you've taken your license in an automatic. However you're allowed to drive both a manual and an automatic if you took your license in a manual car. In the true meaning of the word "superior", the manual transmission would fall into this category compared to the automatic in most scenarios, the above included. If you're being serious and didn't misinterpret my post, then yeah, I'd guess it's more difficult driving a manual car without a license for it as you'd get arrested. I obviously mean nothing bad with the word 'superior', it seems to cause a lot of uproar in threads like these. I just don't get why a lot of you get so bitter when the manual transmission is mentioned, I just can't see why. I've never met anyone who genuinely thought they were superior as a person because they drove a manual.

But my next car was going to be a new BMW :( (Manual)

But where will I get my sense of superiority from without manuals?

Manuals are a lot cheaper than automatics though. They're also a lot more fun.

[QUOTE=Jackpody;48139515]I don't think you quite understood my post - I never even mentioned anything to do with difficulty (it isn't difficult to drive a manual, probably more cumbersome for the first few times if you're new to it but definitely not 'difficult'.) It's illegal to drive a manual car in the US if you've taken your license in an automatic. However you're allowed to drive both a manual and an automatic if you took your license in a manual car. In the true meaning of the word "superior", the manual transmission would fall into this category compared to the automatic in most scenarios, the above included. If you're being serious and didn't misinterpret my post, then yeah, I'd guess it's more difficult driving a manual car without a license for it as you'd get arrested. I obviously mean nothing bad with the word 'superior', it seems to cause a lot of uproar in threads like these. I just don't get why a lot of you get so bitter when the manual transmission is mentioned, I just can't see why. I've never met anyone who genuinely thought they were superior as a person because they drove a manual.[/QUOTE] That's not a law here. At least, it isn't in Arizona.

Hold the fucking phone. [quote][I]"[B]From a technical standpoint[/B], the future doesn't look bright for manual gearboxes. The DCT (dual-clutch transmission) and auto (torque converter) gearboxes are faster and they have better fuel consumption,"[/I][/quote] *Technical*, being the key word. Commercially, the niche will always be there. Hell, Porsche got a ton of flak from purists due to the new 911 GT3s not having a manual. Driving with an automatic might be more comfortable for most, but it makes driving so mundane and downright boring. It makes it too effortless, so it's easier to be distracted, instead of being more engaged with the car. One of the main reasons to own a car with manual transmission is because it makes the car much more fun, not necessarily faster - specially these days, where auto/DCT is pretty damn fast. [editline]7th July 2015[/editline] I still think his statement is being sensationalized as fuck, there's no solid reason to believe MTs are going the way of the dodo, just yet.

Manuals are just more fun to drive, simple as. There's an entire interaction with the car you don't get with an automatic.

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;48139780]Manuals are just more fun to drive, simple as. There's an entire interaction with the car you don't get with an automatic.[/QUOTE] Also, driving cars with automatic transmissions is mostly a North American thing. In the rest of the world, plenty of people still [I]row their gears[/I].

When driving a manual you have a lot more control over the vehicle, I once drove an automatic in heavy snowfall, never again.

[QUOTE=christarp;48139091]Honestly automatics these days are better than manuals, gone are the days of ye olde slushbox.[/QUOTE] Electric cars are going to take over one day anyway.

[QUOTE=christarp;48139091]Honestly automatics these days are better than manuals, gone are the days of ye olde slushbox.[/QUOTE] Except when you really want to downshift and the gawddamn transmission won't downshift unless you're at around 1.5k RPM. It's so annoying.

[quote]Sales data shows that manual transmissions make up about 5 per cent of BMW's total M car sales – as many purists convert over to the latest self-shifting technology.[/quote] Well that's no doubt. Good luck getting a BMW manual anywhere in Australia. Our only option to get a manual was to import a BMW M5 from the US, because not even the UK had a M5 manual.

Reason #254 for driving a car with manual transmission: rev matching. [hd]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkhuQOqEsmY[/hd] Smiles per gallon > miles per gallon, every time. [editline]7th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=DogGunn;48139919]Well that's no doubt. Good luck getting a BMW manual anywhere in Australia. Our only option to get a manual was to import a BMW M5 from the US, because not even the UK had a M5 manual.[/QUOTE] Yea but, a few years ago you could get an X3 or an X5 with a manual tranamission. Because not everyone is purchasing them, they're almost discontinued. :/ [editline]7th July 2015[/editline] Blame it on upper class, lazy soccer moms.

Honestly I can't blame them for abandoning it if only 5% of sales are manuals.