Lebanon To Defend Itself Against Israeli Attack Regardless of Them Being Against Hezollah
164 replies, posted
[url]http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1165702.html[/url]
[QUOTE]Lebanese President Michel Suleiman said Tuesday that his country was not interested in war with Israel, but was prepared to defend itself if attacked.
Suleiman told reporters in Rio de Janeiro that Israel was sounding threats in Lebanon's direction 0 including reports of Syria arming Hezbollah with Scud missiles - in order to divert attention from stalled peace talks.
Meanwhile, Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit met with his French and Spanish counterparts in Luxemborg this week to discuss concern over a possible Israeli attack on Lebanon in the wake of reports on the Scud transfer.
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The three ministers agreed that Israel must be stopped from opening a new war with Lebanon, diplomats told the Lebanese A-Nahar daily. According to the sources, the ministers also discussed ways to guard Lebanon in case Israel or any other country decided to attack Iran's nuclear facilities.
Aboul Gheit's initiative in Lebanon comes days after his visit to Beirut over the weekend, where dismissed as "laughable lies" allegations that Syria transferred Scuds to Hezbollah.
Lebanon's army commander Jean Kahwaji told Gheit during a weekend meeting that he was convinced there are no scud missiles in the country, as it would be possible to bring Scuds across the Lebanese border undetected.
He also said Israel could launch a war at any moment, but added that "the indications until this hour point to no war in the foreseeable future. There are no reasons that require a war and the south is completely quiet". [/QUOTE]
Remind you guys, when Israel attacked targets inside Lebanon back in 2006, Lebanese Government Forces never Fired on Israeli apart from firing Anti-Air Guns on Israeli Jets after they bombed Lebanese Army Bases and major civilian population Centers.
I'm going to Lebanon this summer, I swear to God if Israel pulls anything while I'm there.
Also, pretty interesting Lebanon would do this, after all they have a right to defend themselves.
Also
Norman Finkelstein a Jewish American specializing in Jewish-related issues and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in particular talks about the Lebanese militia Hezbollah and openly supports and praises their resistance: "They (Hezbollah) show courage, they show discipline, I respect that"
You should really check it out, I never seen a man speak so much truth before.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDe65-nF3FQ&feature=related[/media]
[QUOTE=starpluck;21586251]Because when a majority forms an opinion based on facts and evidence, its definitely bandwagon.[/QUOTE]
Facts? Hahahaha. Fucking internet. You know nothing of history, but pretend you do. Fucking bleeding hearts with your brainwashed, abuse of freedom, "GOD FORBID WE OFFEND ANYONE" attitude.
Israel has done what is necessary to defend itself. Imagine being the one country surrounded by your enemies. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. People have hated Jews since the beginning of time and this is no different, it just never ends.
Give me the facts, bro.
[editline]03:41PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;21586342]Facts? Hahahaha. Fucking internet. You know nothing of history, but pretend you do. Fucking bleeding hearts with your brainwashed freedom "GOD FORBID WE OFFEND ANYONE" attitude.
Israel has done what is necessary to defend itself. Imagine being the one country surrounded by your enemies. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. People have hated Jews since the beginning of time and this is no different, it just never ends.[/QUOTE]
I somewhat second this.
What would you do if you were Lebanon and you had to face a country that could rip you up if you fight with their enemies. You play it carefully but quirtly you still support the resistance that gave a punch to the Israelis.
Lebanon did what it had to do to keep it's country alive and if Isreal decides to attack again then they will have to be prepared properly this time otherwise it will politcally backfire on them and that would damage them.
[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;21586342]Facts? Hahahaha. Fucking internet. You know nothing of history, but pretend you do. Fucking bleeding hearts with your brainwashed freedom "GOD FORBID WE OFFEND ANYONE" attitude.[/QUOTE]
Oh its you again, who believes "Israel should be allowed to do whatever they want since they have been persecuted before" [QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;21441750]I like how everyone seems to hide the fact the Jews have pretty much been persecuted and abused since the dawn of time. They didn't have a home after WWII, which is why Israel was established.[/QUOTE]
Let me tell you something, that's not how it works around here.
Watch the video. [URL]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=928668[/URL]
[quote]Israel has done what is necessary to defend itself. Imagine being the one country surrounded by your enemies. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. People have hated Jews since the beginning of time and this is no different, it just never ends.[/quote]You were saying none of us know anything about History? Holy shit, speak for yourself. Israel created all the enemies around it due to their lack of equal treatment of Arabs, indiscriminate killing etc.
That was 60 years ago. And even today you still say "Israel is surrounded by people who want to destroy it." Keep up with the news, Hint: Jordan, Saudi, Egypt.
The facts and evidence comes from the news, we formed the opinion ourselves based on facts.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21586597]Oh its you again, who believes "Israel should be allowed to do whatever they want since they have been persecuted before"
Let me tell you something, that's not how it works around here.
Watch the video. [URL]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=928668[/URL]
You were saying none of us know anything about History? Holy shit, speak for yourself. Israel created all the enemies around it due to their lack of equal treatment of Arabs, indiscriminate killing etc.
That was 60 years ago. And even today you still say "Israel is surrounded by people who want to destroy it." Keep up with the news, Hint: Jordan, Saudi, Egypt.
The facts and evidence comes from the news, we formed the opinion ourselves based on facts.[/QUOTE]
:iceburn:
Why does that Norman Finklestein guy thinks that if Hezbollah gives up they are like slaves to Israel? Did Jordan and Egypt become our slaves when they agreed to declare peace?
[QUOTE=Broseph_;21585780]
Remind you guys, when Israel attacked targets inside Lebanon back in 2006, Lebanese Government Forces never Fired on Israeli apart from firing Anti-Air Guns on Israeli Jets after they bombed Lebanese Army Bases and major civilian population Centers.[/QUOTE]
Maybe the government didn't fire rockets, but Hezbollah did:
[QUOTE][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War#Israeli_civilians[/url][/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War#Israeli_civilians[/url]
[QUOTE=starpluck;21586597]Oh its you again, who believes "Israel should be allowed to do whatever they want since they have been persecuted before"
[/quote]
Way to generalize
[QUOTE=starpluck;21586597]Let me tell you something, that's not how it works around here.
Watch the video. [URL]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=928668[/URL][/quote]
Because we obviously all know one person represents an entire country, right? I didn't want the video but that's what you're trying to draw a parallel to.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21586597]You were saying none of us know anything about History? Holy shit, speak for yourself. Israel created all the enemies around it due to their lack of equal treatment of Arabs, indiscriminate killing etc.
That was 60 years ago. And even today you still say "Israel is surrounded by people who want to destroy it." Keep up with the news, Hint: Jordan, Saudi, Egypt.
The facts and evidence comes from the news, we formed the opinion ourselves based on facts.[/QUOTE]
Evidence now. Hearsay doesn't do any good, so why should I believe you? Just because it's posted somewhere on the internet?
[QUOTE=starpluck;21586597]You were saying none of us know anything about History? Holy shit, speak for yourself. Israel created all the enemies around it due to their lack of equal treatment of Arabs, indiscriminate killing etc.
That was 60 years ago. And even today you still say "Israel is surrounded by people who want to destroy it." Keep up with the news, Hint: Jordan, Saudi, Egypt.
The facts and evidence comes from the news, we formed the opinion ourselves based on facts.[/QUOTE]
These nations attacked Israel the day it was formed, in the Israeli declaration of independence there's a call for peace and cooperation with it's Arab neighbors, but at first they didn't want peace and only after their loss at 1967 some were willing to accept peace.
We are still relatively surrounded by enemies, they don't have to border us upfront to surround us. Anyway: more enemies than allies in the area -> not a place you would call secure.
[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;21586672]Way to generalize
Because we obviously all know one person represents an entire country, right? I didn't want the video but that's what you're trying to draw a parallel to.
Evidence now. Hearsay doesn't do any good, so why should I believe you? Just because it's posted somewhere on the internet?[/QUOTE]
So I guess your ok with Israel demolishing peoples homes and running over protesters.
[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;21586672]Way to generalize[/QUOTE]I'm not generalizing?
[quote]
Because we obviously all know one person represents an entire country, right? I didn't want the video but that's what you're trying to draw a parallel to.[/quote] What are you even talking about? Watch the video, and you'll understand what I meant.
[quote]
Evidence now. Hearsay doesn't do any good, so why should I believe you? Just because it's posted somewhere on the internet?[/quote]Are you actually asking me to compile a list news threads official statements etc. proving so?
[editline]03:23PM[/editline]
I am serious, I will.
Everyone has blood on their hands and a lot of the craps keeps gonig because both sides won't come to an understanding. I think that Lebanon needs to develop it's own foreign policy and Isreal needs to be abel to deal with gureilla tatics but also build up relations with the Arab states so that even if thing go bad it can be sorted out.
Things will turn out well but the queastion is will will benefit and how long it will take ?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;21586730]These nations attacked Israel the day it was formed, in the Israeli declaration of independence there's a call for peace and cooperation with it's Arab neighbors, but at first they didn't want peace and only after their loss at 1967 some were willing to accept peace.[/QUOTE] Sorry, not responding to an unlawful establishment of a nation over another on the pre-text of "religion" does not appeal to me.
[quote]
We are still relatively surrounded by enemies, they don't have to border us upfront to surround us. Anyway: more enemies than allies in the area -> not a place you would call secure.[/quote]Wrong.
The strongest nations in the Middle East are allies with Israel, unless you actually call groups that launch bottle rockets a threat, you need re-defining.
Syria and the other "threats" will never strike Israel first.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21586874]Sorry, not responding to an unlawful establishment of a nation over another on the pre-text of "religion" does not appeal to me.
[/QUOTE]
Are you fucking serious? The United Nations decided on the establishment of the state of Israel. You know NOTHING about history and you just proved it.
[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;21586910]Are you fucking serious? The United Nations decided on the establishment of the state of Israel. You know NOTHING about history and you just proved it.[/QUOTE]
So the U.N is absolutely perfect? Due to their stance on Israel today you'd be like "60 years ago, they were fair and & good, however today they are anti-Semite".
Answer this question, do you actually believe religion should be used as a pretext when deciding on decisions based on politics?
[editline]03:30PM[/editline]
[I]Because according to religion[/I] "It was their land 2,000 years ago".
Itchy, I think he meant that Israel is basing itself on the Bible or something, which is half-true, no need to troll or be a prick if you think someone's wrong, just correct them. Also it's a serious backfire if you turn out to be wrong.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21586874]
The strongest nations in the Middle East are allies with Israel, unless you actually call groups that launch bottle rockets a threat, you need re-defining.[/QUOTE]
Israel doesn't have "allies" in the middle east, the closest country we've had as allies was Turkey but now things have soured up. Egypt and Jordan are neutral but not in the "bitter peace" kind of way. What I'm saying is that they won't come to our defense if there will be a huge war, probably.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21586874]Syria and the other "threats" will never strike Israel first.[/QUOTE]
That's a bold assumption.
[editline]05:35PM[/editline]
It's not "according to religion" the kingdom of Judea and the kingdom of Israel existed, and those are facts.
Also the Zionists chose Palestine because it was their spiritual home, they couldn't think of any other area in the world which fits the Jews better (except for the area's neighbors, of course), and I don't think anywhere else wouldn't have spurred a conflict like this.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;21586994]
Israel doesn't have "allies" in the middle east, the closest country we've had as allies was Turkey but now things have soured up. Egypt and Jordan are neutral but not in the "bitter peace" kind of way. What I'm saying is that they won't come to our defense if there will be a huge war, probably.[/QUOTE] I agree somewhat, but I meant as in, they aren't a [I]threat[/I] to Israel as a lot of people seem to be implying.
[quote=BurnEmDown]
That's a bold assumption.[/quote]
They're to much of pussies to attack Israel first.
[editline]03:41PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;21586994]
It's not "according to religion" the kingdom of Judea and the kingdom of Israel existed, and those are facts.
Also the Zionists chose Palestine because it was their spiritual home, they couldn't think of any other area in the world which fits the Jews better (except for the area's neighbors, of course), and I don't think anywhere else wouldn't have spurred a conflict like this.[/QUOTE]
It was based of religion, most of the claims were from religious text books. Assuming this was true, there should [B]never [/B]be justification for claiming land because your ancestors lived there +2,000 years ago.
Just how like I wouldn't expel you from your house because +2,000 years ago, my ancestors owned the land where your house is on.
Well lets say this: The Zionists were wrong in choosing Palestine to build their country in.
Now lets look at the steps from there to the creation of Israel:
1890's - Zionists first immigrated to Palestine under Ottoman control, some of this immigration was illegal.
1917 - The British took control of Palestine and they let more Jews in than the Ottoman empire, still some of the Jews immigrated illegally.
1947 - The Jews now pose about a 1/3rd of Palestine's population, the UN agrees for a creation of a Jewish state alongside an Arabian state in Palestine. While it's true the Jews got about the same amount of land as the Arabs while being only 33% of the population, only 1/5 of that land was usable, so if you look at Israel only be usable land, the Jews got about 1/4 of the usable land.
Now you may say it was wrong for the Jews to choose Palestine as their target for building a country in, and illegally migrating to Palestine, but this was over 60 years ago, you might as well add to the equation the fact that the Arabs conquered the land from the Romans who conquered it from the Jews.
why dont the muselmans join together and destroy israel?
ItchyBarracuda, BurnEmDown - it's pointless to argue against pro-Arabs. It's the same like arguing against Christians - it will never end.
BloodYScar - because they've already tried and failed badly?
Israel's army is WAYYYYYY more advanced than any Arab state.
[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;21586342]Facts? Hahahaha. Fucking internet. You know nothing of history, but pretend you do. Fucking bleeding hearts with your brainwashed, abuse of freedom, "GOD FORBID WE OFFEND ANYONE" attitude.
Israel has done what is necessary to defend itself. Imagine being the one country surrounded by your enemies. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. People have hated Jews since the beginning of time and this is no different, it just never ends.[/QUOTE]
i think you're a bit biased in this matter...
Actually if all the Arab states in the middle east joined together and attacked Israel, aside from nukes or European\American support, I don't think we'd stand much of a chance.
And also the point of an argument against someone who has already set up his mind is usually to convince the "audience", as in, if someone who has never heard of or seriously thought of the conflict, had suddenly came up to these threads, he would make up his mind according to what each side had said (like in the movie "thank you for smoking".
[editline]06:02PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ralbane;21587301]i think you're a bit biased in this matter...[/QUOTE]
If someone is biased it doesn't matter, you could say he won't be persuaded even with convincing evidence, but it's not like he's not allowed to be a part in the discussion.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;21586659]Why does that Norman Finklestein guy thinks that if Hezbollah gives up they are like slaves to Israel? Did Jordan and Egypt become our slaves when they agreed to declare peace?[/QUOTE]
It's a metaphor.
[editline]03:03PM[/editline]
Didn't you listen to what he said about the people living under the nazis?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;21587191]Well lets say this: The Zionists were wrong in choosing Palestine to build their country in.
Now lets look at the steps from there to the creation of Israel:
1890's - Zionists first immigrated to Palestine under Ottoman control, some of this immigration was illegal.
1917 - The British took control of Palestine and they let more Jews in than the Ottoman empire, still some of the Jews immigrated illegally.
1947 - The Jews now pose about a 1/3rd of Palestine's population, the UN agrees for a creation of a Jewish state alongside an Arabian state in Palestine. While it's true the Jews got about the same amount of land as the Arabs while being only 33% of the population, only 1/5 of that land was usable, so if you look at Israel only be usable land, the Jews got about 1/4 of the usable land.
Now you may say it was wrong for the Jews to choose Palestine as their target for building a country in, and illegally migrating to Palestine, but this was over 60 years ago, you might as well add to the equation the fact that the Arabs conquered the land from the Romans who conquered it from the Jews.[/QUOTE]
They minority got 2% more, I always have been against the minority being treated better then the majority.
Its like how its unfair that the Third Estate recived the most benefits when actually they were the minority, while the 2nd and 1st were the majority and were treated like shit. (French History)
In this case, whoever got the usable land barley mattered, whoever got the most land mattered the most.
Hell, it was not even "not usable". It was as perfectly usable as Palestine.
[editline]04:04PM[/editline]
Or how else would of Israel developed?
No, it wasn't, it was a desert, it still is, you can't grow crops there, you can't do shit there. The rest of Palestine wasn't desert, it was swampland and marshland, with places which could have been turned to fertile land but it took some time, still much less time than it takes to turn a desert to fertile land.
I'm kind of 'meh' when it comes to Israel. On the one hand yes, they do do dickish things, but on the other hand I can't blame them for getting pissed off if they are getting attacked all the time.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;21587588]No, it wasn't, it was a desert, it still is, you can't grow crops there, you can't do shit there. The rest of Palestine wasn't desert, it was swampland and marshland, with places which could have been turned to fertile land but it took some time, still much less time than it takes to turn a desert to fertile land.[/QUOTE]
It was usable, hence how did Israel develop. You're making it sound like all Israel got was a desert barren wasteland. That's not the case.
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