Notch: “If someone copies your game a trillion times, you won’t have a single lost sale” - Polidicks

[QUOTE]Notch has just finished his “Fireside Chat” with Chris Heckler at GDC. It sounds cosy, but that didn’t stop the Minecraft creator taking on the thorny issue of piracy towards the end of the talk. “If someone copies your game a trillion times, you won’t have a single lost sale,” said Notch. “Some people are using that to ruin the internet.” We can only asssume that Notch was referring to the SOPA legislation that rose its ugly head a few months ago. The billing would make it harder for pirated materials to be distributed, but would throttle our ability to share content on the web. Notch told us that “no sane person” would support it when we spoke to him in January. “I still think piracy is wrong, but the the level of wrong me calling my friend an idiot. It’s wrong but it’s such a minor thing. It’s ridiculously small,” concluded the hatted developer. Notch has expressed his liberal views on illegal downloading before. Andres Lea recieved a ;) after tweeting his intent to pirate Minecraft. The dev has also mentioned that pirates can be converted into paying customers if treated appropriately. [/QUOTE] Source: [url]http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/notch-if-someone-copies-your-game-a-trillion-times-you-wont-have-a-single-lost-sale/[/url]

Now if only Notch was a relatable individual, took less vacations and could actually run a business, and we'd have swedish Gaben.

There goes my plan for bankrupting Bioware

You know it's a slow news day when a fairly reputable gaming site uses vague wording from twitter as a source (seeing as how they had to assume what he meant). Though I'm still pissed at the broken promises and lack of updates, he really does seem more like Gabe in this post: [URL="https://twitter.com/#%21/notch/status/157261795139125248"]https://twitter.com/#!/notch/status/157261795139125248[/URL]

well its true, if someone is pirating a game they are either trying it out before buying it, or they weren't going to buy it in the first place.

[QUOTE=StealthArcher;35046614]Now if only Notch was a relatable individual, took less vacations and could actually run a business, and we'd have swedish Gaben.[/QUOTE] While I love Gabe as much as the next fanboy on this forum, how is he any easier to relate to? He was just announced as an official "billionaire" and very rarely as far as I know talks about anything other than Valve and related products. He's light years away from any of us ha. Edit: And to clarify, I love Gabe, and despise Notch, so don't misinterpret my meaning.

Response from Gov Officials Take your pick: "You obviously don't know what you are talking about." "You must advocate piracy then, right?" "You are not an expert in this field." "Your opinion here is irrelevant."

It's called PR, people, of course he's going to say things his fanbase, et al. likes.

instead of sale its supposed to be cent but whatever

[QUOTE=codemaster85;35046686]well its true, if someone is pirating a game they are either trying it out before buying it, or they weren't going to buy it in the first place.[/QUOTE] So why should someone who "wasn't going to buy it in the first place" get to enjoy a game someone else has paid for? Just because content is digital doesn't mean it shouldn't be protected. It should be treated just like everything else. If it sucks, don't buy it. If it's too expensive, don't buy it. If the company is an ass, don't buy it. This whole 'piracy isn't hurting anyone' thing is silly. Most of the reasons people use to justify piracy would end up in you not buying a physical product because of preference, but because it's digital it's okay. That's wrong and is only going to result in companies trying harder to protect their product. Then the people who pay for their games and software get to deal with shitty DRM, while people who don't pay just work around it. I know people who pirate games instead of buying them, so you aren't convincing me. Most of them pirate PC games just because they can, it's cheaper, and then buy all their Xbox games. I doubt the people I know are the only ones on this planet. It sure as hell does irk me, why don't I just pirate it? I would be just another person who isn't going to pay right? No, I'll pay for what I use, and anything I can't afford or don't want to pay for, I won't bother with. Notch is just trying to please his followers. I don't even see why his opinion is noteworthy.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;35046686]well its true, if someone is pirating a game they are either trying it out before buying it, or they weren't going to buy it in the first place.[/QUOTE] And this applies in [I]literally[/I] every case, yes, correct.

[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;35046736]It's called PR, people, of course he's going to say things his fanbase, et al. likes.[/QUOTE] Who cares. It's the truth and if Notch says it people will listen.

[QUOTE=jordguitar;35046742]instead of sale its supposed to be cent but whatever[/QUOTE] What difference does it make? A lost sale is lost cent(s), as every sale has monetary value. You either argue that one exists or neither exists.

Developers should do what other games have done and cause pirates to have in-game problems. If I remember correctly, Arma 2 has a piracy protection system in which the game quality slowly deteriorates the more you play a pirated version. Eventually the weapons will be very inaccurate and the game becomes unplayable. Here it is [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FADE[/url]

The thing is if piracy wasn't an option for people, then the companies could reason that they would get more sales. A lot of the time people won't buy the game after pirating it (all the time), but in the case of ME3, where you'd need a paid game for MP, you'd have to buy the product. So just deal with the piracy and have a buyer-exclusive system such as multi-player put in place to deter it.

[QUOTE=SilentOpp;35046764]So why should someone who "wasn't going to buy it in the first place" get to enjoy a game someone else has paid for? Just because content is digital doesn't mean it shouldn't be protected. It should be treated just like everything else. If it sucks, don't buy it. If it's too expensive, don't buy it. If the company is an ass, don't buy it. This whole 'piracy isn't hurting anyone' thing is silly. Most of the reasons people use to justify piracy would end up in you not buying a physical product because of preference, but because it's digital it's okay. That's wrong and is only going to result in companies trying harder to protect their product. Then the people who pay for their games and software get to deal with shitty DRM, while people who don't pay just work around it. I know people who pirate games instead of buying them, so you aren't convincing me. Most of them pirate PC games just because they can, it's cheaper, and then buy all their Xbox games. I doubt the people I know are the only ones on this planet. Notch is just trying to please his followers. I don't even see why his opinion is noteworthy.[/QUOTE] the point is that you cannot stop piracy as long as the internet is online. so why annoy regular customers with DRM and stupid shit like that. It will make them want to pirate a game even more due to that. And Piracy is harmless because like i said earlier many of people pirate because they don't believe that the game is worth the 60$ price tag, or they want to try before buying. People who pirate the game are literally not affecting the publisher at all, its just the publisher is mad that they are not getting that extra money. tell me, do you think if there were pirates but the publisher didnt know about them that they would even care in the slightest about "protecting" their product?

[QUOTE=SilentOpp;35046764]So why should someone who "wasn't going to buy it in the first place" get to enjoy a game someone else has paid for? Just because content is digital doesn't mean it shouldn't be protected. It should be treated just like everything else. If it sucks, don't buy it. If it's too expensive, don't buy it. If the company is an ass, don't buy it. This whole 'piracy isn't hurting anyone' thing is silly. Most of the reasons people use to justify piracy would end up in you not buying a physical product because of preference, but because it's digital it's okay. That's wrong and is only going to result in companies trying harder to protect their product. Then the people who pay for their games and software get to deal with shitty DRM, while people who don't pay just work around it. I know people who pirate games instead of buying them, so you aren't convincing me. Most of them pirate PC games just because they can, it's cheaper, and then buy all their Xbox games. I doubt the people I know are the only ones on this planet. It sure as hell does irk me, why don't I just pirate it? I would be just another person who isn't going to pay right? No, I'll pay for what I use, and anything I can't afford or don't want to pay for, I won't bother with. Notch is just trying to please his followers. I don't even see why his opinion is noteworthy.[/QUOTE] When games stop being a significant amount of money, people will probably start buying them.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;35046874]the point is that you cannot stop piracy as long as the internet is online. so why annoy regular customers with DRM and stupid shit like that. It will make them want to pirate a game even more due to that. And Piracy is harmless because like i said earlier many of people pirate because they don't believe that the game is worth the 60$ price tag, or they want to try before buying. People who pirate the game are literally not affecting the publisher at all, its just the publisher is mad that they are not getting that extra money. tell me, do you think if there were pirates but the publisher didnt know about them that they would even care in the slightest about "protecting" their product?[/QUOTE] Except piracy is real and incredibly obvious, so a 'what if' is pretty much pointless. Just because it doesn't directly affect the publisher, doesn't make it right. Someone obtaining a copy of your product for free, while the original purchaser still retains their copy, is a lost sale. The funny thing is, you can't offer a good reason to buy any digital content when you advocate piracy that way. I could easily say 'what if piracy wasn't a crime and became much more widespread, creating a steep decline in digital sales', then you would probably eat your own words. What rules dictate when piracy is right? There aren't any. If you allow any person to judge the 'worth' of a game, their expectations continue to rise for a personal pricetag that continues to drop. Your average user cannot evaluate the worth of a game, period. Even people that game a ton can't. Piracy is [U]not[/U] harmless, and a game not worth the price tag isn't worth buying. I wouldn't buy an iPad at the current prices, but when a new better model comes out, I'll wouldn't mind picking one up for cheap. It's the same situation.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;35046874]the point is that you cannot stop piracy as long as the internet is online. so why annoy regular customers with DRM and stupid shit like that. It will make them want to pirate a game even more due to that. And Piracy is harmless because like i said earlier many of people pirate because they don't believe that the game is worth the 60$ price tag, or they want to try before buying. People who pirate the game are literally not affecting the publisher at all, its just the publisher is mad that they are not getting that extra money. tell me, do you think if there were pirates but the publisher didnt know about them that they would even care in the slightest about "protecting" their product?[/QUOTE] If I embezzle money from my employer, and he never finds out, that doesn't make it okay in the least. Furthermore your depiction of all pirates as being try-before-buyers or wouldn't-buy-anyway is really stupid, of course there are people who would buy if not for piracy.

A grand example is the humble indie bundle. its DRM free and pay as much as you want. It generates tons and tons of sales in the time its up because people dont really have anything to lose compared to buying a 60$ game.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;35046936]A grand example is the humble indie bundle. its DRM free and pay as much as you want. It generates tons and tons of sales in the time its up because people dont really have anything to lose compared to buying a 60$ game.[/QUOTE] okay, alternatively, how about we let companies decide the terms under which to sell their products something tells me that big-name games like I dunno Mass Effect 3 took more money to produce than would be returned by much lower prices.

[QUOTE=SilentOpp;35046919]Except piracy is real and incredibly obvious, so a 'what if' is pretty much pointless. Just because it doesn't directly affect the publisher, doesn't make it right. Someone obtaining a copy of your product for free, while the original purchaser still retains their copy, is a lost sale. The funny thing is, you can't offer a good reason to buy any digital content when you advocate piracy that way. I could easily say 'what if piracy wasn't a crime and became much more widespread, creating a steep decline in digital sales', then you would probably eat your own words. What rules dictate when piracy is right? There aren't any. Piracy is [U]not[/U] harmless, and a game not worth the price tag isn't worth buying. I wouldn't buy an iPad at the current prices, but when a new better model comes out, I'll wouldn't mind picking one up for cheap. It's the same situation.[/QUOTE] Except not quite. A potential sale and a lost sale are different things. The loss of a potential sale is not always(though it could be) a lost sale. And here's a reason to advocate buying in a digital age - Giving the buyer rewards. It's a proven system that this is the best way to fight piracy. Invasive DRM and things like SOPA are not answers, anything that fucks with the customer, is not an answer. Why punish bad people when you can simply reward the ones who are doing what you want them to? What if piracy wasn't a crime? Well, considering in some countries, you still can't get arrested for it... Uh, what argument is there to be had over this point? And so what does that have to do with a digital medium? Digital and analog mediums are different. Vastly.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;35046929]If I embezzle money from my employer, and he never finds out, that doesn't make it okay in the least. Furthermore your depiction of all pirates as being try-before-buyers or wouldn't-buy-anyway is really stupid, of course there are people who would buy if not for piracy.[/QUOTE] im not claiming all pirates as try-before-buy people. just i know some are. And the wouldnt buy anyway is real actually. There people that pirated a game, only to buy the it in a steam sale when its cheaper. The only way pirating protection works is if it takes away something in the game that you need a real copy for, not establishing DRM bullshit.

Heh, I was at that talk.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;35046949]okay, alternatively, how about we let companies decide the terms under which to sell their products something tells me that big-name games like I dunno Mass Effect 3 took more money to produce than would be returned by much lower prices.[/QUOTE] Perhaps, but maybe more sales could be had at a lower price point? Yes, let them set their own sales terms, I don't see people saying not, just saying that DRM will drive away sales, which is proven to happen. Most companies have not changed their minds on price points and still believe a higher one will result in more sales and more profit. Many companies have proven that this not always the case. Yes more money is spent on these things than ever, but the [b]reigning[/b] cost in almost all mainstream entertainment is [u]advertising[/u]. [editline]7th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Elecbullet;35046929]If I embezzle money from my employer, and he never finds out, that doesn't make it okay in the least. Furthermore your depiction of all pirates as being try-before-buyers or wouldn't-buy-anyway is really stupid, of course there are people who would buy if not for piracy.[/QUOTE] Don't make analogies.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;35046963]im not claiming all pirates as try-before-buy people. just i know some are. And the wouldnt buy anyway is real actually. There people that pirated a game, only to buy the it in a steam sale when its cheaper. The only way pirating protection works is if it takes away something in the game that you need a real copy for, not establishing DRM bullshit.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=codemaster85;35046686]well its true, if someone is pirating a game they are either trying it out before buying it, or they weren't going to buy it in the first place.[/QUOTE] There was no qualifying statement in that post. Certainly nobody [I]really[/I] believes that [I]literally nobody[/I] would buy for lack of availability of piracy, but your post at least marginalizes this population. I believe it is a significant chunk of pirates.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;35046962]Except not quite. A potential sale and a lost sale are different things. The loss of a potential sale is not always(though it could be) a lost sale. And here's a reason to advocate buying in a digital age - Giving the buyer rewards. It's a proven system that this is the best way to fight piracy. Invasive DRM and things like SOPA are not answers, anything that fucks with the customer, is not an answer. Why punish bad people when you can simply reward the ones who are doing what you want them to? What if piracy wasn't a crime? Well, considering in some countries, you still can't get arrested for it... Uh, what argument is there to be had over this point? And so what does that have to do with a digital medium? Digital and analog mediums are different. Vastly.[/QUOTE] Just because there's a difference between the composition of a physical and digital product, does [U]not[/U] erase the fact that it is still a product. There are countries where you can get away with human rights abuses, murder, slavery, theft all kinds of things on a small scale. Everything from breach of contracts(which surprise, may not hurt anyone), to denial of human life. Just because you can't be prosecuted doesn't make it right. And what rewards are you honestly suggesting? Pirates are crafty, they do anything to get the full experience on their pirated copy. They obtain DLC, bypass online multiplayer protection, mess with pretty much every benefit that has ever been given. Even STEAM can't offer a real 'benefit' over the pirated copy, not worth the pricetag as a whole(which, by what you are saying, I should be paying for the 'benefits', not the game itself).

[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;35046736]It's called PR, people, of course he's going to say things his fanbase, et al. likes.[/QUOTE] It's not PR. Notch sucks at PR

Maybe companies should stop making overpriced, overhyped, buggy shit. The amount of shit releases has been so high recently that consumers need to have a way to protect themselves and try before they buy. Companies should just drop the DRM that does nothing but punish consumers. Make games with actual innovation and replay value, or that are appropriately priced. Make games more easily accessible without having to jump through hoops (I will never buy an Origin game)

[QUOTE=codemaster85;35046686]well its true, if someone is pirating a game they are either trying it out before buying it, or they weren't going to buy it in the first place.[/QUOTE] How did you draw that conclusion? You realize that it is extremely flawed, don't you?