• UPDATE: Ukraine deal not enough, protesters say.
    29 replies, posted
[QUOTE]KIEV, Ukraine — A deal Friday between the Ukrainian president and the opposition to hold early elections has calmed violence in the capital, but many protesters say it's not nearly enough. They say no deal can hold that does not take into account the acts of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, who ordered a vicious crackdown on protesters that has left more than 100 people dead. "A coalition government is good, it's a step in the right direction, and it is what we wanted," said Ivan Shershin, 44, a protester who came to Kiev from the Ivano-Frankivsk region in western Ukraine. "But there is no way Yanukovych can stay in office till December – he is a murderer now and must be prosecuted as a murderer," he said. The deal signed by Yanukovych and leaders of the main political parties that oppose his ruling party meets some of the top demands of the protest movement, which though supported by opposition parties is not run by them. The deal calls for presidential elections by December (rather than next year) and alters the Ukraine Constitution to grant more power to parliament over the president. It also lays out the guidelines for the creation of a coalition government to begin in 10 days.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/02/21/ukraine-president-opposition-protesters-sanctions-eu/5671131/[/url]
This whole situation is fucked, I'm sort of pissed that no one is really helping as far as the west is considered. (to my knowledge that is)
[QUOTE=noneshallpass;43998543]This whole situation is fucked, I'm sort of pissed that no one is really helping as far as the west is considered. (to my knowledge that is)[/QUOTE] Beyond dropping medical supplies for civilians, I don't think there any way to "help" in Ukraines own political turmoil in a way that wouldn't come off looking as aggressive, self serving and high handed.
Too many people have died for people to just accept him saying "lol ok we'll hold elections in December now go home". Yanukovych either needs to die or flee the country before this ends. [editline]21st February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=hypno-toad;43998593]Beyond dropping medical supplies for civilians, I don't think there any way to "help" in Ukraines own political turmoil in a way that wouldn't come off looking as aggressive, self serving and high handed.[/QUOTE] Its probably going to come down to what the Ukrainian military decides to do.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;43998593]Beyond dropping medical supplies for civilians, I don't think there any way to "help" in Ukraines own political turmoil in a way that wouldn't come off looking as aggressive, self serving and high handed.[/QUOTE] ah sorry, I should have been more specific, I was more referring to medical supplies and such.
[QUOTE=noneshallpass;43998543]This whole situation is fucked, I'm sort of pissed that no one is really helping as far as the west is considered. (to my knowledge that is)[/QUOTE] The west is pretty limited in its ability to help without simultaneously infuriating Russia.
My heart goes out to all FPers in Ukraine dealing with this shit; hope you all make it through this okay. I also hope you get a government that will actually listen to it's people the first time; then let it dissolve into this. (but that's probably wishful thinking) Extremist groups do make this situation much more complicated, I believe
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;43998595]Too many people have died for people to just accept him saying "lol ok we'll hold elections in December now go home". [/QUOTE] It's not like opposition came out with something more interesting. Leaders of the opposition have pushed the agreement and decided it was satisfactory enough.
This is retarded, I just want all this shit to stop now that we'll have a reelection and the 2004 constitution back. We have lost so much money, time and lives on this "revolution" crap it's ridiculous
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;43998728]This is retarded, I just want all this shit to stop now that we'll have a reelection and the 2004 constitution back. We have lost so much money, time and lives on this "revolution" crap it's ridiculous[/QUOTE] The worst of it all, blood, so much fucking blood. It's horrible, and there're still people who can just say "lol nope, it's not over yet". Fucking get a clue and listen to people who understand what kind of shit country is pushed in now, like those who were actually there, negotiating the agreement. How much money is it going to cost to restore everything and clean up? How much money is going to be given as compensation to all the families whose members were killed on both sided of the barricades? How much money will elections cost - and they want them literally "tomorrow". Some people should just stop and think about what kind of country they're going to inherit after all this is through. So much money wasted, and that's right after the country had to ask for financial help.
Money money money, it isn't about money.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;43998953]Money money money, it isn't about money.[/QUOTE] What is it about then? As far as I'm concerned the more we have these protests the more money and time we lose, and Ukraine can barely afford this shit Not to mention the 100 dead guys and hundreds left with permanent injuries
[QUOTE=itisjuly;43998953]Money money money, it isn't about money.[/QUOTE] Oh really it isn't? Is it about [i]freedom[/i]? There's no democracy without economy, no freedom without a country. Such a cool freedom when you can vote whoever you like into a parliament, but you can't get shit to eat because the stores are empty. I remember a freedom like that, in early 90s in here. Don't know if you've experienced it (and you should've, considering you're Latvian) I'm going to tell you, it fucking sucks. Back then it was unavoidable. Now in Ukraine, it still is.
one time i chose to play ukraine in a geo political simulation game, after loading it up, i shut down my pc
[QUOTE=gudman;43999145]Oh really it isn't? Is it about [i]freedom[/i]? There's no democracy without economy, no freedom without a country. Such a cool freedom when you can vote whoever you like into a parliament, but you can't get shit to eat because the stores are empty. I remember a freedom like that, in early 90s in here. Don't know if you've experienced it (and you should've, considering you're Latvian) I'm going to tell you, it fucking sucks. Back then it was unavoidable. Now in Ukraine, it still is.[/QUOTE]Beats living under a dictatorship for sure. True, it won't be easy for them but in the long run it should be much better unless they fuck it up bad.
[QUOTE=noneshallpass;43998543]This whole situation is fucked, I'm sort of pissed that no one is really helping as far as the west is considered. (to my knowledge that is)[/QUOTE] So what do you want Western governments to do? Or should NATO just pile into Ukraine and pray that the Russians don't get too pissed off?
[QUOTE=noneshallpass;43998543]This whole situation is fucked, I'm sort of pissed that no one is really helping as far as the west is considered. (to my knowledge that is)[/QUOTE] You run supplies in the current regime steals them. You send military aid in you might as well go ahead and declare war on Russia because they [i]will[/i] declare war on any western power providing direct military aid to the rebels. There isn't really anything they can do unless they want an all-out war with one of the largest armies on the planet. And since nobody wants that Ukrainians are on their own.
Russia can't be stupid enough to go to war with any nation that supports rebels? That would escalate rather quickly and in no one's favor.
hey guys remember the last time we went and invaded and changed a countries regime [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Iraq_War_montage.png[/IMG] ... oh wait
[QUOTE=Xystus234;44000611]hey guys remember the last time we went and invaded and changed a countries regime [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Iraq_War_montage.png[/IMG] ... oh wait[/QUOTE] Regardless of what point you're trying to make, you can't really compare those countries.
[QUOTE=Xystus234;44000611]hey guys remember the last time we went and invaded and changed a countries regime ... oh wait[/QUOTE] Mate what the hell are you talking about
[QUOTE=proch;44000929]Regardless of what point you're trying to make, you can't really compare those countries.[/QUOTE] indeed; one country has white people and the other browns
[QUOTE=Xystus234;44000611]hey guys remember the last time we went and invaded and changed a countries regime [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Iraq_War_montage.png[/IMG] ... oh wait[/QUOTE] There isn't two religious sects that have hated eachother for hundreds oh years in Ukraine.
FPers from Ukraine, please look at this : [url]http://boards.4chan.org/b/res/533788374[/url] [url]http://boards.4chan.org/int/res/20822834[/url]
the fucking neo nazi rioters that are shooting, beating and burning cops just want an excuse to kill people and other marauder shit, they got what they asked for and it seems they weren't expecting it, so they make another unreasonable demand to justify their actions. once yanukovich steps down and the ukraine integrates into the EU, the ukraine dies. who will they elect? svoboda, which is basically the golden dawn of ukraine? klitschko, who lost protester support by condemning violence and whose party is practically controlled by svoboda? tymoshenko, the protesters favorite, who stole millions of dollars? not to mention most, if not all, parties are seeking for EU integration so they can line their pockets while the citizens get raped in the ass. the fact anybody can support the neo-nazi protesters and the leaders that follow their ideology is fucking disgusting
[QUOTE=vadrigar;44001886]FPers from Ukraine, please look at this : [url]http://boards.4chan.org/b/res/533788374[/url] [url]http://boards.4chan.org/int/res/20822834[/url][/QUOTE] The 4chan 404 page is truly amazing
[QUOTE=Stroma;44002789]the fucking neo nazi rioters that are shooting, beating and burning cops just want an excuse to kill people and other marauder shit, they got what they asked for and it seems they weren't expecting it, so they make another unreasonable demand to justify their actions. once yanukovich steps down and the ukraine integrates into the EU, the ukraine dies. who will they elect? svoboda, which is basically the golden dawn of ukraine? klitschko, who lost protester support by condemning violence and whose party is practically controlled by svoboda? tymoshenko, the protesters favorite, who stole millions of dollars? not to mention most, if not all, parties are seeking for EU integration so they can line their pockets while the citizens get raped in the ass. the fact anybody can support the neo-nazi protesters and the leaders that follow their ideology is fucking disgusting[/QUOTE]Do the TSA use you to teach their employees how to perform cavity searches?
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;44005790]Do the TSA use you to teach their employees how to perform cavity searches?[/QUOTE] Just ignore, report and move on. Don't talk to it.
[QUOTE=noneshallpass;43998543]This whole situation is fucked, I'm sort of pissed that no one is really helping as far as the west is considered. (to my knowledge that is)[/QUOTE] History has shown this is literally the worst course of action possible in any case. I can't believe you even suggested it.
[QUOTE=noneshallpass;43998543]This whole situation is fucked, I'm sort of pissed that no one is really helping as far as the west is considered. (to my knowledge that is)[/QUOTE] its because Putin has basically made Ukraine a Russian issue and tools america to stand off, still we are helping in these talks as well as providing mecidal supplies its just we can't really go rolling in tanks in Russia's back yard withputin around [editline]22nd February 2014[/editline] the only thing we can do is work the diplomatic channels,which aren't going to work since now they want the president to not only step down but be held on trial for the ordered attacks, no politician or person ever would willingly submit to that, and we can also try to convince Russia to stop being heavy handed and back out of this
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