Emboldened Israeli Right Presses Moves to Doom 2-State Solution - Polidicks

[URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/01/world/middleeast/israeli-jerusalem-west-bank.html?ribbon-ad-idx=3&src=trending"]source[/URL] [QUOTE]JERUSALEM — An emboldened Israeli right wing is moving quickly in the new year to make it far more difficult to create a Palestinian state, signaling its intention to doom hopes for a two-state solution to the conflict. The actions have come on multiple fronts, as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s party for the first time has urged the annexation of Jewish settlements in the West Bank, and the nation’s top legal officers pressed to extend Israeli law into occupied territory. In addition, the Israeli Parliament, after a late-night debate, voted early Tuesday to enact stiff new obstacles to any potential land-for-peace deal involving Jerusalem, while abandoning at the last minute a measure that would have eased the way to rid the city of several overwhelmingly Palestinian neighborhoods. Coming on the heels of [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/world/middleeast/jerusalem-trump-embassy.html"] President[/URL][URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/world/middleeast/jerusalem-trump-embassy.html"] Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital[/URL] in defiance of decades-old United States policy and international consensus, the moves showed that the Israeli right senses a new opening to pursue its goal of a single state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean.[/QUOTE]

So how long until the war starts?

[QUOTE=Luni;53023019]So how long until the war starts?[/QUOTE] NOW.

When are we gonna see Trump on twitter ranting about how the Israeli people are "taking back their country!!!"?

Hmm its almost like 3 administrations have weighed these situations and decided against doing this exact thing

I can see why some people really want to believe in god - it's a harsh thing to acknowledge that vermin like Trump with blood on their hands may never taste sufficient justice for their evil. No torture, slow death or prison sentence would be enough to make up for all the death and suffering he's going to cause.

Why are we the sole supporters of a borderline fascist ethnostate again?

[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;53023351]Why are we the sole supporters of a borderline fascist ethnostate again?[/QUOTE] Someone can undoubtedly explain it in more detail, but roughly, many Republicans are evangelist Christians who genuinely believe that the apocalypse will start in Israel once it has been reclaimed, and that there will some kind of final battle. Basically madmen - madmen which the Israeli government has heavily lobbied with for their own gains.

[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;53023369]Someone can undoubtedly explain it in more detail, but roughly, many Republicans are evangelist Christians who genuinely believe that the apocalypse will start in Israel once it has been reclaimed, and that there will some kind of final battle. Basically madmen - madmen which the Israeli government has heavily lobbied with for their own gains.[/QUOTE] Just to be clear: This isn't some unifying evangelical belief. There are some people who have oddly specific beliefs about it, but most don't. Most just see Israel as the only functioning democracy in the Middle East with generally western values.

[QUOTE=sgman91;53023423]Just to be clear: This isn't some unifying evangelical belief. There are some people who have oddly specific beliefs about it, but most don't. Most just see Israel as the only functioning democracy in the Middle East with generally western values.[/QUOTE] That is true. I won't pretend every single Christian is a zealot just waiting for their moment of righteous and divine glory. But many of the most outspoken supporters of Israel do fall into that category. And of course, some democrats also fall under this.

I could have sworn "Hell On Earth" was the subtitle but it's been like 25 years

so when the palestinians continually reject the peace deals where they've been offered everything that they want like in 2008 and then pays Palestinian terrorists to carry out terror attacks against Israel, it's not dooming the 2 state solution but when Israel wants Israeli law to apply in Israeli settlements in Area C which is only administered by Israel in the first place, it's dooming the 2 state solution?

Are you being paid?

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53023566]Are you being paid?[/QUOTE] I'm not being paid for hasbara. I'm just sick of uninformed people who don't actually do any research and blame everything on the Israelis.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53023613]I'm not being paid for hasbara. I'm just sick of uninformed people who don't actually do any research and blame [B]anything[/B] on the Israelis.[/QUOTE] [editline]2nd January 2018[/editline] fixed

[QUOTE=sgman91;53023423]Just to be clear: This isn't some unifying evangelical belief. There are some people who have oddly specific beliefs about it, but most don't. Most just see Israel as the only functioning democracy in the Middle East with generally western values.[/QUOTE] And along with these two things there's also the fact that Palestine is muslim. The idea of the entire middle east being ruled by Islamic regimes scares a lot of people, to the point where they consider absolutely anything else to be a preferable alternative.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53023654][editline]2nd January 2018[/editline] fixed[/QUOTE] Israel is definitely guilty of some things and I've acknowledged that in previous posts. Instead of making "witty" edits to my posts, can you refute what I'm saying?

[QUOTE=Aredbomb;53023667]And along with these two things there's also the fact that Palestine is muslim. The idea of the entire middle east being ruled by Islamic regimes scares a lot of people, to the point where they consider absolutely anything else to be a preferable alternative.[/QUOTE] I don't think it's so much them being Muslim as much as the [B]Islamic regime[/B] part. There's a long history of religiously Islamic autocratic regimes in the Middle East, almost all of whom were in opposition to the west, or, at best, marginally friendly.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53023558]so when the palestinians continually reject the peace deals where they've been offered everything that they want like in 2008 and then pays Palestinian terrorists to carry out terror attacks against Israel, it's not dooming the 2 state solution but when Israel wants Israeli law to apply in Israeli settlements in Area C which is only administered by Israel in the first place, it's dooming the 2 state solution?[/QUOTE] I'm going to ask what i asked in the last thread and you didn't answer, do you favor the one state solution? Because the whole settlement issue pretty much makes 2 state solution harder the longer it goes on, and you explicitly said israel could not afford another gaza last thread about this issue, and if not, what do you actually support?

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;53023771]I'm going to ask what i asked in the last thread and you didn't answer, do you favor the one state solution? Because the whole settlement issue pretty much makes 2 state solution harder the longer it goes on, and you explicitly said israel could not afford another gaza last thread about this issue, and if not, what do you actually support?[/QUOTE] It's complex. I would prefer a one state solution where Israel controls the entirety of the West Bank and allows Palestinian villages/cities to function like reservations where they administer their own law but are subject to Israeli law. Palestinians could choose if they want to become Israeli citizens or not, kind of like how things are in east jerusalem right now. I think a 2 state solution could work if the Palestinians become secular and open to abandoning violence as a tool but that's not going to happen.

[QUOTE=sgman91;53023731]I don't think it's so much them being Muslim as much as the [B]Islamic regime[/B] part. There's a long history of religiously Islamic autocratic regimes in the Middle East, almost all of whom were in opposition to the west, or, at best, marginally friendly.[/QUOTE] Given how the west has intervened in the middle east I'm not surprised

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53023793]It's complex. I would prefer a one state solution where Israel controls the entirety of the West Bank and allows Palestinian villages/cities to function like reservations where they administer their own law but are subject to Israeli law. Palestinians could choose if they want to become Israeli citizens or not, kind of like how things are in east jerusalem right now. I think a 2 state solution could work if the Palestinians become secular and open to abandoning violence as a tool but that's not going to happen.[/QUOTE] Fucking wow. Good to know what you truly believe. "The peace process will never work because they won't unconditionally surrender, we should continue to ethnically cleanse them and put them on //reservations//."

[QUOTE=SeamanStains;53023832]Fucking wow. Good to know what you truly believe. "The peace process will never work because they won't unconditionally surrender, we should continue to ethnically cleanse them and put them on //reservations//."[/QUOTE] The palestinian population has more than quadrupled since the 1950s, not much of an ethnic cleansing. [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/5lwegrU.png[/IMG] [URL="http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/palestine-population/"]http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/palestine-population/[/URL] I'm not asking for a unconditional surrender, I'm just asking for them to be open to abandoning violence for the negotiation table.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53023846]The palestinian population has more than quadrupled since the 1950s, not much of an ethnic cleansing. [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/5lwegrU.png[/IMG] [URL="http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/palestine-population/"]http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/palestine-population/[/URL] I'm not asking for a unconditional surrender, I'm just asking for them to be open to abandoning violence for the negotiation table.[/QUOTE] It doesn’t matter how many of them are left if they’re being governed by an outside forces which they don’t have any say in. The American genocide of the native Americans didn’t end by wiping them out, but by subjugating and forcing them to live in the reservations which you just described. The whole Israel Palestine conflict is history repeating itself, except this time the natives are using rockets and suicide attacks instead of bows and guns in retaliation. Because the Palestinian people don’t have a legitimate government or representation, they will suffer the same fate as the native Americans and eventually be regulated into obscurity.

[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;53023910]It doesn’t matter how many of them are left if they’re being governed by an outside forces which they don’t have any say in. The American genocide of the native Americans didn’t end by wiping them out, but by subjugating and forcing them to live in the reservations which you just described. The whole Israel Palestine conflict is history repeating itself, except this time the natives are using rockets and suicide attacks instead of bows and guns in retaliation. Because the Palestinian people don’t have a legitimate government or representation, they will suffer the same fate as the native Americans and eventually be regulated into obscurity.[/QUOTE] The Palestinians don't have a legitimate government? They have the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza, both of which were democratically elected.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53023911]The Palestinians don't have a legitimate government? They have the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza, both of which were democratically elected.[/QUOTE] They have governments but no sovereignty.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53023911]The Palestinians don't have a legitimate government? They have the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza, both of which were democratically elected.[/QUOTE] Last time I checked, world governments do recognize the existence of the Palestinian people but never officially recognized Palestine as a state. Also no one on the world stage in a position to help is going to take the Palestinian’s seriously when they elect terrorists into their government. I don’t know on what planet you’re on where a government like that could be considered as legitimate.

[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;53023910]It doesn’t matter how many of them are left if they’re being governed by an outside forces which they don’t have any say in. The American genocide of the native Americans didn’t end by wiping them out, but by subjugating and forcing them to live in the reservations which you just described. The whole Israel Palestine conflict is history repeating itself, except this time the natives are using rockets and suicide attacks instead of bows and guns in retaliation. Because the Palestinian people don’t have a legitimate government or representation, they will suffer the same fate as the native Americans and eventually be regulated into obscurity.[/QUOTE] Huh, I don't remember all the native tribes banding together to slaughter and destroy the early European colonists. (Trying to draw an analogy between the two is beyond ignorant.)

[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;53023922]Last time I checked, world governments do recognize the existence of the Palestinian people but never officially recognized Palestine as a state. Also no one on the world stage in a position to help is going to take the Palestinian’s seriously when they elect terrorists into their government. I don’t know on what planet you’re on where a government like that could be considered as legitimate.[/QUOTE] Pretty much all of Africa, Asia, and South America recognizes Palestine as a state [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine[/URL] People on the world stage are already taking Palestinians seriously even with terrorists in their government. Just look at what the UN is doing. The US + Russia recognizes the Palestinian Authority and regularly talks to them even though the ruling party of the PA is sponsoring terror attacks.

what would a two state solution look like?