[quote]RALEIGH, N.C. — Asheville City Councilman Cecil Bothwell believes in ending the death penalty, conserving water and reforming government — but he doesn't believe in God. His political opponents say that's a sin that makes him unworthy of serving in office, and they've got the North Carolina Constitution on their side.
Bothwell's detractors are threatening to take the city to court for swearing him in, even though the state's antiquated requirement that officeholders believe in God is unenforceable because it violates the U.S. Consititution.
"The question of whether or not God exists is not particularly interesting to me and it's certainly not relevant to public office," the recently elected 59-year-old said.
Raised a Presbyterian, Bothwell began questioning Christian beliefs at a young age and considered himself an atheist by the time he was 20. He's an active member of the Unitarian Universalist Church of Asheville and he still celebrates Christmas, often hanging ornaments on his Fishhook cactus.
Bothwell ran this fall on a platform that also included limiting the height of downtown buildings and saving trees in the city's core, views that appealed to voters in the liberal-leaning community at the foot of the Appalachian Mountains. When Bothwell was sworn into office on Monday, he used an alternative oath that doesn't require officials to swear on a Bible or reference "Almighty God."
That has riled conservative activists, who cite a little-noticed quirk in North Carolina's Constitution that disqualifies officeholders "who shall deny the being of Almighty God." The provision was included when the document was drafted in 1868 and wasn't revised when North Carolina amended its constitution in 1971. One foe, H.K. Edgerton, is threatening to file a lawsuit in state court against the city to challenge Bothwell's appointment.
"My father was a Baptist minister. I'm a Christian man. I have problems with people who don't believe in God," said Edgerton, a former local NAACP president and founder of Southern Heritage 411, an organization that promotes the interests of black southerners.
The head of a conservative weekly newspaper says city officials shirked their duty to uphold the state's laws by swearing in Bothwell. David Morgan, editor of the Asheville Tribune, said he's tired of seeing his state Constitution "trashed."
Bothwell can't be forced out of office over his atheist views because the North Carolina provision is unenforceable, according to the supremacy clause of the U.S. Constitution. Six other states, Arkansas, Maryland, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas, have similar provisions barring atheist officeholders.
In 1961, the U.S. Supreme Court reaffirmed that federal law prohibits states from requiring any kind of religious test to serve in office when it ruled in favor of a Maryland atheist seeking appointment as a notary public.
But the federal protections don't necessarily spare atheist public officials from spending years defending themselves in court. Avowed atheist Herb Silverman won an eight-year court battle in 1997 when South Carolina's highest court granted him the right to be appointed as a notary despite the state's law.
Bothwell said a legal challenge to his appointment would be "fun," but believes his opponents' efforts have more to do with politics than religious beliefs.
"It's local political opponents seeking to change the outcome of an election they lost," Bothwell said.
Bothwell, who's lived in Asheville nearly three decades and wrote the city's best-selling guide book, said his spiritual views don't matter to most of his constituents. Bothwell is a registered Democrat but didn't run on a party ticket in the nonpartisan Council election.
Even if he can't force Bothwell out of office, Edgerton said he hopes a legal battle would ultimately force North Carolina's Legislature to determine the legality of the article of the Constitution.
"If the law is wrong, it is the obligation of the Legislature to say it's wrong," he said.
Provisions like North Carolina's tend to stay on the books because lawmakers would rather not spend time weeding out outdated laws, said Duke University Law School Professor Joseph Blocher.
"I mean there are state laws against spitting in the street," he said. "Why spend the time?"
But the battle is important to Silverman, who says there are scores of other atheist politicians afraid to "come out of the closet." He cited U.S. Rep. Pete Stark of California, the first and only congressman to publicly acknowledge he doesn't believe in God.
"We're trying to change our culture to the point where it's not political suicide," Silverman said.[/quote]
I've read about such provisions before, but it disgusts me that these people are trying to deny the will of the people with an outdated law that will surely be struck down by the Supreme Court if this case even gets that far.
Well if its the collapse of Christianity as a religion then one down many more to go.
Honestly I can only see good coming from this. There is no possible way that this man will be ejected from the council, so the only thing that can happen is for the lawsuit to be dropped, or for the lawsuit to be struck down which would just be one step forward for tolerance of atheism.
[quote]"My father was a Baptist minister. I'm a Christian man. I have problems with people who don't believe in God," said Edgerton[/quote]
These kind of intolerant idiots disgust me.
At least religion gave us christmas :mmmhmm:
[quote]"My father was a Baptist minister. I'm a Christian man. I have problems with people who don't believe in God," said Edgerton, a former local NAACP president and founder of Southern Heritage 411, an organization that promotes the interests of black southerners.[/quote]
You'd think someone representing the interests of black southerners would be a little more worried about coming across as a prejudiced fucktard.
Great, now my state seriously proves the south is right wing Christians and if you are not a Christian than all Christians hate you. Good job, North Carolina. I can't wait till I get old enough to move the hell out of here. :bang:
[QUOTE=jota de;18892037]At least religion gave us christmas :mmmhmm:[/QUOTE]
Actually Christmas was a pagan ritual before Christianity came around and stole the only good holiday.
America is such a fascinating country. It was founded on all the right ideals yet has turned into an example of how not to do things.
[QUOTE=CommieTurtle;18892498]Actually Christmas was a pagan ritual before Christianity came around and stole the only good holiday.[/QUOTE]
It was also a day of Roman Festival I believe.
Though yeah, I can't imagine why a person's religion would be an issue in politics even to a devout Christian.
:smug:
I :love: north carolina
I live there my self.
[QUOTE=Billiam;18892528]It was also a day of Roman Festival I believe.
Though yeah, I can't imagine why a person's religion would be an issue in politics even to a devout Christian.[/QUOTE]
Think of Islamic political leaders and then think of Switzerland banning minarets, if they had an Islamic political leader in Switzerland then the banning of minarets has a slightly lower chance of occurring.
[QUOTE=Rad666;18892550]:smug:
I :love: north carolina
I live there my self.[/QUOTE]
Please tell me you are using Internet sarcasm.
[QUOTE=Pedro the Fuzzy;18892721]Please tell me you are using Internet sarcasm.[/QUOTE]
Nope, i really do live there.
[QUOTE=Rad666;18892741]Nope, i really do live there.[/QUOTE]
No, I meant the "I love NC." Thing in your post. At least my town, Mooresville, sucks ass. There is nothing to do here, it's boring as hell, and everyone else thinks that we all hate people who aren't Christian and are straight.
im a christian and im proud
but Im not gonna hate if your atheist
[QUOTE=CommieTurtle;18892498]Actually Christmas was a pagan ritual before Christianity came around and stole the only good holiday.[/QUOTE]
Yes!
Here in Denmark its called "jul" which is very similar to our word for wheel "hjul" it was to celebrate the rotation of the seasons and the comming of a warmer period.
But the church was not fond of this so they moved the birthday of christ to this time of the year..
[QUOTE=jota de;18892037]At least religion gave us christmas :mmmhmm:[/QUOTE]
[quote]Christmas or Christmas Day is an annual holiday celebrated on December 25 that commemorates the birth of Jesus of Nazareth. [b]The date of commemoration is not known to be Jesus' actual birthday, and may have initially been chosen to correspond with either a historical Roman festival or the winter solstice.[/b][/quote]
[quote] and some of its popular celebratory customs have pre-Christian or secular themes and origins.[/quote]
:smug:
[QUOTE=jota de;18892037]At least religion gave us christmas :mmmhmm:[/QUOTE]
Druidism and Germanic Paganism gave us Christmas.
And the Roman Holiday for Saturn I believe
This is disgusting.
That's why I live in the good area of NC. (Charlotte)
Great I'm moving out of the goddamn south before it's too late. Give me Britain with it's 35% non believers.
Christmas was a week long Roman festival ending on the 25th, wasn't it?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;18892505]America is such a fascinating country. It was founded on all the right ideals yet has turned into an example of how not to do things.[/QUOTE]
wutte, its still one of the better places to live in the world
Good. I wholly support the Christians on this issue. I believe they need to carry this all the way to the Supreme Court.
Where they will receive a colossal legal boot up the ass when all of these stupid, bigoted, antiquated, unconstitutional laws are struck down once and for all by Supreme Court precedent.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;18896849]Good. I wholly support the Christians on this issue. I believe they need to carry this all the way to the Supreme Court.
Where they will receive a colossal legal boot up the ass when all of these stupid, bigoted, antiquated, unconstitutional laws are struck down once and for all by Supreme Court precedent.[/QUOTE]
At first I was about to flame you but then I read the rest and I love you.
Dont forget that the church funded colledges during the renaisance.
and that USSR and china are atheist states.
:smug:
Oh no! Someone doesn't believe in our God, make them suffer.
Sound a little similar? I swear Christianity gets closer and closer to Islamic extremism every day.
[QUOTE=E310;18898402]Dont forget that the church funded [B]colledges [/B]during the renaisance.
and that USSR and china are atheist states.
:smug:[/QUOTE]
[img]http://www.colledges.com.au/images/colledges.png[/img]
[url]http://www.colledges.com.au/[/url]
[quote]Colledge's is an automotive industry accounting, consulting and training specialist firm that is solely an Australian company, focussed on developing the Australian automotive industry.[/quote]
I didn't know they even had cars during the renaissance. :v:
universities
:smug:
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