Ya blew it: Ukraine clashes spark further protests and calls for the government to resign
10 replies, posted
[img]http://imgkk.com/i/_1jm.jpg[/img]
[url]http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/11/30/uk-ukraine-protest-idUKBRE9AT01O20131130[/url]
[quote]Ukraine's political opposition said on Saturday it would call a general strike to force the resignation of President Viktor Yanukovich's government after police used batons and stun grenades to break up pro-Europe protests.
Some 10,000 protesters regrouped in Kiev, flooding a square outside a church. They waved the blue and gold EU flag and chanted 'Revolution' and 'Down with the gang'.
Further rallies were planned for Sunday in the capital Kiev and other cities. Police promised there would be no repeat of the violence seen in the early hours of Saturday.
Helmeted police stormed an encampment in Kiev's Independence Square where protesters were singing and warming themselves by campfires early in the morning, the opposition said.[/quote]
Police using force to break up these sorts of protests never ever does work, it's like putting petrol on an already large fire.
go go Ukraine woo!
Ukraine really needs a new government.
The government is synonymous with the mafia in their country.
Alright, someone explain for us Yanks. Here's what I know so far:
The Ukraine is slowly edging it's way into Russia's new "economic bloc" (which has eerily similar tons to a previously-extinct political body).
The Ukrainian government was getting close to joining the EU, but backed off at the last second.
So here's my Yank question:
Do the Ukrainians want to be part of the EU, the RusBloc, or neither? What's going on over there?
[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;43031435]Police using force to break up these sorts of protests never ever does work, it's like putting petrol on an already large fire.
go go Ukraine woo![/QUOTE]
Actually it works most of the time. It's just the ones where the police fail that get news coverage or that history remember.
There are uncounted numbers of times where the police successfully busted up Street Riots in America with violent measure, as recent as the OWS incidents. Where's the petrol? Where's the regime change there?
[QUOTE=ewitwins;43032348]Alright, someone explain for us Yanks. Here's what I know so far:
The Ukraine is slowly edging it's way into Russia's new "economic bloc" (which has eerily similar tons to a previously-extinct political body).
The Ukrainian government was getting close to joining the EU, but backed off at the last second.
So here's my Yank question:
Do the Ukrainians want to be part of the EU, the RusBloc, or neither? What's going on over there?[/QUOTE]
They were close to signing an [I]association agreement[/I] with the EU. Actually joining is an incredibly complicated process which would probably take at least 10 years to complete if Ukraine applied right now.
Most of the data I can find suggests that most Ukrainians [url=http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-front/posts/2013/11/18-viktor-yanukovych-losing-europe-ukrainian-public-pifer-thoburn]prefer the EU over Russia[/url], but as that article shows, it seems older people tend more towards Russia. I've also read that there's an east-west split on the issue, because eastern Ukraine is closer to Russia, has more Russian culture/language/people etc.
One of the reasons Ukraine ended up not signing the thing is because there's a whole related issue over former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko. She was imprisoned in 2011 in what the West views as a politically motivated show trial, and the EU said they ain't signing jackshit until she's been released. Ukraine said the EU has no right to interfere and that's one of the reasons they didn't end up signing the deal. So the protesters are not only demonstrating in support of the EU, but also in support of Tymoshenko.
Doesn't Ukraine have a large ethnically Russian minority, especially in the Crimea?
Wonder how that populace will affect the protests leaning one way or another.
I honestly don't think Ukraine can join the EU and NATO unless they completely change their political class.
Here in Romania, however corrupt our politicians are, they all met up 90's and agreed on a national "project" to join NATO and then the EU. And all the parties that ran the country did follow to the agreement by making changes to our army and country to please the EU comission and NATO.
I really can't see that happening in the Ukraine, considering that at times you can see their politicans fistfighting eachother in the Parliament.
[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;43031435]Police using force to break up these sorts of protests never ever does work, it's like putting petrol on an already large fire.
go go Ukraine woo![/QUOTE]
i used to think the same thing, but it seems like it isn't really true. it works, some of the time. it depends on how competent the underlying agitating organizations are. in the case of occupy in the usa, the police just ran in with batons and tear gas and basically tore down the movement park by park. in syria's case, firing on protesters helped lead to a civil war.
so yea, organization is a must for these things to work out.
not that it will work
Ukraine is interesting because the instant things would get too violent Russia will move in to stabilize things before everyone can even react
They fucked up a nice free-trade agreement over a political prisoner.
I'd be pissed too.
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