Loot n' Plunder (The Jimquisition) - General

[video]https://youtu.be/_OyhTKX7i4I?t=1m14s[/video] Content starts at 1:14 for those that want to skip the usual Jimspeal.

Not even going to bother watching, I know EXACTLY what he's going to talk about. I don't think he realizes how the industry works. No developer is ever going to give free content in updates without some form of long-term monetization in the background to fund it. It's either these or paid DLC. If you're going to bitch, Jim, look at your favorite FPS series, Call of Duty, which has Microtransactions AND paid DLCs. [I]THAT'S[/I] scummy. You know what isn't scummy? A developer trying to turn a profit on a product whilst supporting it long-term. Also I heard on GAF that he, in this video or on his blog at some point, called Overwatch a "Free To Play game being sold for money."... That's just... ... What.

[QUOTE=certified;50848911]Not even going to bother watching, I know EXACTLY what he's going to talk about. I don't think he realizes how the industry works. No developer is ever going to give free content in updates without some form of long-term monetization in the background to fund it. It's either these or paid DLC. If you're going to bitch, Jim, look at your favorite FPS series, Call of Duty, which has Microtransactions AND paid DLCs. [I]THAT'S[/I] scummy. You know what isn't scummy? A developer trying to turn a profit on a product whilst supporting it long-term. Also I heard on GAF that he, in this video or on his blog at some point, called Overwatch a "Free To Play game being sold for money."... That's just... ... What.[/QUOTE] Watch it, don't act like a child. I don't agree with Jim about paid cosmetics drops, but what Blizzard did was shitty.

I don't agree that the option to purchase loot boxes is a bad thing, I don't have a problem with microtransactions if they [I]are[/I] cosmetic only, but I do agree with the people complaining that the new cosmetics can't be obtained for coins. THAT is bullshit.

Just like everyone said, most people are okay with micro transactions being there only because we can earn loot boxes by just leveling up (And by level 22 is the same amount of XP so you don't have to grind). A lot of people were saving coins since Blizzard told us there was going to be new items this summer, only to realize you can only get them from loot boxes. You can't get them by using the in-game coins and the worst part they are time limited to if you want to get them by playing you better play a while to get as many loot boxes you can and pray RNG is in your side. It doesn't help you can also get old items from the new loot boxes meaning you will also probably get one of 100 new items per loot box instead of 4. You can get duplicated items too meaning you are running at the chance of getting one item you already have of the 100 possible new items. You only have time until day 22, all of this because they wanted the new items to be "rare" (Which nobody buys, unlike the loot crates). Removing being able to buy the new items with the in-game coins was the first bad thing. Being at the mercy of RNG when opening loot boxes is another bad thing. They could made an overpriced bundle like they normally do and at least you get what you buy.

[QUOTE=Skyward;50848933]I don't agree that the option to purchase loot boxes is a bad thing, I don't have a problem with microtransactions if they [I]are[/I] cosmetic only, but I do agree with the people complaining that the new cosmetics can't be obtained for coins. THAT is bullshit.[/QUOTE] I like the fact they can't be obtained with coins. The whole timed exclusivity of it makes lootboxes more exciting, causing me to play more often. I already had the skins I wanted from the game before this update - and extra coin to buy more, so the incentive of earning skins at the end of a match kind of lost it's allure. Only thing I don't like is that you're not guaranteed a summer themed item.

death to microtransactions of all sorts, as Jim said "you give them an inch and it'll take not just a mile, but the complete damn piss"

Microtransactions are OK since it means free heroes and maps. Seems like a fair deal. These summer boxes just feel like they're made for whales though, and that's not a good experience. Even if you spend real money on the largest bundle of boxes, that is 50 boxes for $40, your odds of getting that one item you want are still not looking good (maybe 50%-ish, or even sub-50). It's just shitty to be shown cool new items then get told that the only way to get them is to be lucky and/or spend absurd amounts of money (though that's still no guarantee). And the fact that it's a time-limited thing means that you can't just play/grind until you get the item eventually either. Heck if Blizzard released skins that you can only get by purchasing them I'd be fine with that as long as it's not random (that's what the Origins edition is basically).

I've done a a complete 180 on the Buy 2 play model thanks to shit like this. This is the sort of shit I expect to see in f2p mmos. Not to mention blizzard flat out lied about it earlier. [img]http://i.imgur.com/AzZMAFM.png[/img]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who was super annoyed at the fact that I can't buy these skins with coins. I've purposely been saving up coins to buy skins I want.

this whole thing is exaggerated,, people behave as blizzard majorly fucked their customers over. the only issue here is not being able to purchase with coins. i'm sure they will listen to this outcry though, just look at Diablo or the nostalrius situation i don't find blizzard greedy, i'm confident there will be skins outside these events that you'll be able to purchase for coins.

[QUOTE=doctordarken;50848987]I like the fact they can't be obtained with coins. [b]The whole timed exclusivity of it makes lootboxes more exciting, causing me to play more often. I already had the skins I wanted from the game before this update - and extra coin to buy more, so the incentive of earning skins at the end of a match kind of lost it's allure.[/b] Only thing I don't like is that you're not guaranteed a summer themed item.[/QUOTE] Do you see nothing wrong with this? You're literally playing into what Blizzard wants. One free lootbox to entice you into the items. One drop from regular boxes to give the new boxes the upper hand. No buying specific items with coins, meaning the only efficient way to obtain them is by buying the boxes. It's scummy as fuck and disgusting how open they are about trying to squeeze the money out of people.

[QUOTE=Oizen;50849112]I've done a a complete 180 on the Buy 2 play model thanks to shit like this. This is the sort of shit I expect to see in f2p mmos. Not to mention blizzard flat out lied about it earlier. [img]http://i.imgur.com/AzZMAFM.png[/img][/QUOTE] To be fair though they lied about this as soon as Origins and the Pre Order Bonus were announced. But yeah credits were the only thing preventing me from blasting the game since that meant by the time one reaches level 200 or so they'd have enough loot boxes and credits to full deck out their characters since one could buy whatever they wanted.

[QUOTE=certified;50848911]Also I heard on GAF that he, in this video or on his blog at some point, called Overwatch a "Free To Play game being sold for money."... That's just... ... What.[/QUOTE] Admitting you post on NeoGAF. Now that's just embarrassing.

[QUOTE=certified;50848911]Not even going to bother watching, I know EXACTLY what he's going to talk about. I don't think he realizes how the industry works. No developer is ever going to give free content in updates without some form of long-term monetization in the background to fund it. It's either these or paid DLC. If you're going to bitch, Jim, look at your favorite FPS series, Call of Duty, which has Microtransactions AND paid DLCs. [I]THAT'S[/I] scummy. You know what isn't scummy? A developer trying to turn a profit on a product whilst supporting it long-term. Also I heard on GAF that he, in this video or on his blog at some point, called Overwatch a "Free To Play game being sold for money."... That's just... ... What.[/QUOTE] To be fair OW's current system is exactly what you'd expect to see in a F2P MMO. Gamble boxes with no direct purchases.

[QUOTE=Skyward;50848933]I don't agree that the option to purchase loot boxes is a bad thing, I don't have a problem with microtransactions if they [I]are[/I] cosmetic only, but I do agree with the people complaining that the new cosmetics can't be obtained for coins. THAT is bullshit.[/QUOTE] except if you play it, the drops for these boxes have been extremely generous. i used to get legendaries every 40 boxes, but this update has had me have 3 legendaries, 12 rares, and a lot of the olympic common stuff. TF2 on the other hand gives you shit on shit, and you have to PAY to get an ounce of the content, or be lucky in a drop of 10000-1. [editline]8th August 2016[/editline] not to mention the event is nearly a month long, which is plenty of time for common players to get the content free by just playing like on the weekends or for a little time in the day.

[QUOTE=kakizc;50849720]this whole thing is exaggerated,, people behave as blizzard majorly fucked their customers over. the only issue here is not being able to purchase with coins. i'm sure they will listen to this outcry though, just look at Diablo or the nostalrius situation i don't find blizzard greedy, i'm confident there will be skins outside these events that you'll be able to purchase for coins.[/QUOTE] Are you refering to to the Diablo real money auction house? I hope you're not, because that shit was shut down 2 fucking years after the game came out. That is not listening to customer outcry. That is blizzard exploting a bullshit feature for what it's worth, then removing it because it's starting to become a liabilty and then going around pretending they did it because they've seen the light.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;50849723]Do you see nothing wrong with this? You're literally playing into what Blizzard wants. One free lootbox to entice you into the items. One drop from regular boxes to give the new boxes the upper hand. No buying specific items with coins, meaning the only efficient way to obtain them is by buying the boxes. It's scummy as fuck and disgusting how open they are about trying to squeeze the money out of people.[/QUOTE] uhhhh, all the drops are the new boxes? its impossible right now to get the regular loot boxes unless you purchase them with real money.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;50849723]Do you see nothing wrong with this? You're literally playing into what Blizzard wants. One free lootbox to entice you into the items. One drop from regular boxes to give the new boxes the upper hand. No buying specific items with coins, meaning the only efficient way to obtain them is by buying the boxes. It's scummy as fuck and disgusting how open they are about trying to squeeze the money out of people.[/QUOTE] I never buy shit like that so yeah I don't care at all because it seems silly. Just don't buy it and if other people don't do it their strategy won't work. But nah I'm just a sheep playing into blizzards hands because I never buy shit like that

[QUOTE=codemaster85;50851289]uhhhh, all the drops are the new boxes? its impossible right now to get the regular loot boxes unless you purchase them with real money.[/QUOTE] You're correct, I was under the impression that level crates only contained a single summer item, but all crates do. Sorry. A video I watched on it was misleading and the person opening crates must have gotten extremely lucky with the ones they bought. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50851382]I never buy shit like that so yeah I don't care at all because it seems silly. Just don't buy it and if other people don't do it their strategy won't work. But nah I'm just a sheep playing into blizzards hands because I never buy shit like that[/QUOTE] I agree with this sentiment but it just doesn't work for bigger companies. Overwatch has 15 million players and there's big streamers and youtubers out there buying hundreds of boxes, Blizzard has already made their money off the whales. People are being taken advantage of and what Blizzard has done is obviously something manipulative.

[QUOTE=Latex;50851281]Are you refering to to the Diablo real money auction house? I hope you're not, because that shit was shut down 2 fucking years after the game came out. That is not listening to customer outcry. That is blizzard exploting a bullshit feature for what it's worth, then removing it because it's starting to become a liabilty and then going around pretending they did it because they've seen the light.[/QUOTE] better late than never? the overhauled loot system, ladder scoreboard, communities and more? people asked for this and Blizzard delivered. Mike Morhaime also told the team to release every future update which they planned to monetize for free afterwards. calm down son lol

i mean shit, i already have 90% of the rare skins from the update, and i got the legendary i wanted plus 3 other older legendaries. This update has been a fucking blast compared to Valve's shit lately of pay to win models for events. [editline]8th August 2016[/editline] look at the compendium this year for dota as a prime example. You have to gamble to get levels or pay out the ass for them. No one is going to get to level 600 with gambling coins, and this year's compenduim doesnt give you shit at all compared earlier years. I used to purchase $100 (which to me is fine because how many hours i put in the game for it being F2P) and get EVERYTHING the compendium included. Now $100 gives you like 80 levels out of i believe 1K. to even get the fucking items you have to pay into it to get at lvl 1, then hope to god you either get all your tourney guesses right, or be a god at gambling coins to get even to lvl 100. Overwatch does an completely free update, with a new gamemode that still counts towards your levels, and tons of really cool and nice cosmetics that are for the most part easy to obtain in almost a month. But suddenly they are shit for doing this, when Valve just shit all over compendium owners by making what is basically a fucking casino to unlock very paltry items that some are not even fucking permanant. Jim is being Jim by just attacking the hottest topic and latching onto people who are mad about not being able to spend their coins on seasonal items (btw you can use the coins to purchase skins and such for new heroes as soon as they are released).

[QUOTE=codemaster85;50851552]i mean shit, i already have 90% of the rare skins from the update, and i got the legendary i wanted plus 3 other older legendaries. This update has been a fucking blast compared to Valve's shit lately of pay to win models for events. [editline]8th August 2016[/editline] look at the compendium this year for dota as a prime example. You have to gamble to get levels or pay out the ass for them. No one is going to get to level 600 with gambling coins, and this year's compenduim doesnt give you shit at all compared earlier years. I used to purchase $100 (which to me is fine because how many hours i put in the game for it being F2P) and get EVERYTHING the compendium included. Now $100 gives you like 80 levels out of i believe 1K. to even get the fucking items you have to pay into it to get at lvl 1, then hope to god you either get all your tourney guesses right, or be a god at gambling coins to get even to lvl 100. Overwatch does an completely free update, with a new gamemode that still counts towards your levels, and tons of really cool and nice cosmetics that are for the most part easy to obtain in almost a month. But suddenly they are shit for doing this, when Valve just shit all over compendium owners by making what is basically a fucking casino to unlock very paltry items that some are not even fucking permanant. Jim is being Jim by just attacking the hottest topic and latching onto people who are mad about not being able to spend their coins on seasonal items (btw you can use the coins to purchase skins and such for new heroes as soon as they are released).[/QUOTE] How many crates have you opened? How many have you gotten from leveling up and how many hours do you play a day? That's kind of like the people who say "You can get to legend in Hearthstone without spending any money!". Yeah that's true, but you have to grind grind grind for those levels and cards. There's a LOT of items, and the crate system already sucks because of the fact that 3/4 items you get are trash, and they won't even let you spend 25 coins on a spray or voiceline. You can also get duplicates, which means coupled with the crap RNG crate system you could not get a single skin the entire month even if you were playing until your eyes bled. The "It's seasonal we want some items to be rare!" thing just sounds like an excuse not to let players use their coins on items so they buy crates instead. The gamemode they released is pretty lacklustre too, if a couple of brand new maps were added into the regular game's rotation, something it really needs, I don't think I would be complaining. Instead it's a limited gimmick brawl. Isn't a part of the money that goes towards compendium purchases put into funding The International itself? Dota 2 is also a completely free game. I don't think that's comparable.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;50851700]How many crates have you opened? How many have you gotten from leveling up and how many hours do you play a day? That's kind of like the people who say "You can get to legend in Hearthstone without spending any money!". Yeah that's true, but you have to grind grind grind for those levels and cards. There's a LOT of items, and the crate system already sucks because of the fact that 3/4 items you get are trash, and they won't even let you spend 25 coins on a spray or voiceline. You can also get duplicates, which means coupled with the crap RNG crate system you could not get a single skin the entire month even if you were playing until your eyes bled. The "It's seasonal we want some items to be rare!" thing just sounds like an excuse not to let players use their coins on items so they buy crates instead. The gamemode they released is pretty lacklustre too, if a couple of brand new maps were added into the regular game's rotation, something it really needs, I don't think I would be complaining. Instead it's a limited gimmick brawl. Isn't a part of the money that goes towards compendium purchases put into funding The International itself? Dota 2 is also a completely free game. I don't think that's comparable.[/QUOTE] dota has been getting nothing but more and more gambling and pay gates to have any of the content that is released. The game mode came out of nowhere since no one was expecting it at all, everyone was expecting just skins that were summer based, not Olympics based. And I have opened around 15 crates since the update with me obtaining about 90% of the rares and one legendary, My playtime since the update has been like 10 ish hours and i work a full time job+ overtime. The levels requirement caps at 22 and to top it off [B][U]they doubled the drop rate for rares and legendaries for the event that is 22 days[/U][/B]. Everyone ive talked to has gotten plenty of the new skins and at least one legendary new skin, and most of those people don't play the game religiously like you're implying. Dota on the other hand basically requires you to spend literally 100s of dollars in a small insignificant chance of getting what you want, or you can gamble your coins to get there which is even longer and even more of a gamble due to chancing the game with pubs or against another team. OW gives you a free crate every single level up, gave you a free one for the start, and still rewards you for dupes which are still very rare considering how much content was released with the box. You can prance around that dota is f2p but the systems are both loot based with micro transactions for cosmetics.

I feel like people (especially Jim) like to over react to things like this. Yeah the whole summer system is complete garbage and needs to at the very least implement the ability to buy these items with coins (maybe as a last week of the summer game sale), but over all blizzard has been pretty good about monitizing this stuff without it being intrusive. I'd rather them have some way to make money and keep working on the game than just forget about it a year down the line.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;50849723]Do you see nothing wrong with this? You're literally playing into what Blizzard wants. One free lootbox to entice you into the items. One drop from regular boxes to give the new boxes the upper hand. No buying specific items with coins, meaning the only efficient way to obtain them is by buying the boxes. It's scummy as fuck and disgusting how open they are about trying to squeeze the money out of people.[/QUOTE] I've been having an enjoyable experience without feeling any pressure to purchase any, so no it's not an issue for me. To me, they're just a fun benefit of playing a the game for a short while. Certain skins only being available during a certain time is just a small incentive to play more regularly.

Overwatch will eventually go down the same path as DOTA and TF2. The free availability of skins isn't going to last once they've got a taste of how much more money they can make with exclusively selling them.

I don't find this kind of microtransactions scheme as questionable as the motives behind it. Is extra income source for devs and publishers truly a bare necessity for AAA development these days, or is it just something that has just become a habit to include to increase profit margins and/or reduce the risk for publishers? It's easy to make the argument that this kind of extra income helps games like Overwatch exist, but I'd like to see if it really holds up. Just how much worse would online games be if microtransactions weren't a thing? It's clearly possible to make good AAA games without them, are those publishers/devs that do taking a massive financial risk in hoping that they can break even at only $59.99? Would it be wrong to hold every dev/publisher up to this standard?

they should let you buy coins instead of lootboxes, tbh