[Australia] Independent MP Andrew Wilkie requests International Criminal Court investigation on huma - Polidicks

[QUOTE][B][U]Andrew Wilkie wants international probe into Government's asylum seeker 'crimes'[/U][/B] Federal independent MP Andrew Wilkie wants the International Criminal Court (ICC) to investigate whether the Abbott Government has committed crimes against asylum seekers. Mr Wilkie has formally asked the ICC prosecuting authority to investigate whether the treatment of asylum seekers contravenes international conventions. He has named Prime Minister Tony Abbott and each member of the federal Cabinet. Mr Wilkie said the Government's actions were criminal and the ICC had jurisdiction to investigate.[/QUOTE] Sauces: [URL="http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-22/wilkie-want-international-probe-of-asylum-policies/5832702"]http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-22/wilkie-want-international-probe-of-asylum-policies/5832702[/URL] [URL="http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/22/asylum-seekers-andrew-wilkie-takes-australia-to-international-criminal-court"]http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/22/asylum-seekers-andrew-wilkie-takes-australia-to-international-criminal-court[/URL] [URL="http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/10/22/wilkie-asks-icc-to-investigate-abbott-govt.html"]http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/10/22/wilkie-asks-icc-to-investigate-abbott-govt.html[/URL] Specifically, this investigation launched by MP Andrew Wilkie is about how the Abbott government is treating refugee's inhumanely and that several violations of the Rome Statute, specifically Part II - Jurisdiction, admissibility and applicable law ~ Article 7 have been carried out under the orders of Prime Minister Tony Abbott, Minister of Immigration & Border Protection Scott Morrison and the Assistant Minister for Immigration & Border Protection Michaela Cash. International Criminal Court source (Rome Statute): [URL="http://www.icc-cpi.int/nr/rdonlyres/ea9aeff7-5752-4f84-be94-0a655eb30e16/0/rome_statute_english.pdf"]http://www.icc-cpi.int/nr/rdonlyres/ea9aeff7-5752-4f84-be94-0a655eb30e16/0/rome_statute_english.pdf[/URL] The Federal Government is liable due to the fact that Australia signed this treaty in 1998 and was formally ratified on the 1st of July, 2002 This could be implicating to both the Labor & Liberal-Nationals because it's possible that such atrocities were being carried out [B]before[/B] Abbott took office

Its quite disgusting how the current government is covering this up, releasing very little to media and rejecting any media outlet from going to these processing areas to interview Like honestly, enough is enough and I hope this happens

I still don't understand the mentality that seems to be that people from developing nations are not human beings.

Did you know that Wilkie was one of only two members of the House of Representatives to vote against the indefinite detention of children in overseas camps? one of two, out of a possible 150. rly makes u think.

[QUOTE=kaine123;46299676]I still don't understand the mentality that seems to be that people from developing nations are not human beings.[/QUOTE] Because as much as Australia and Australians want to deny it, the country is still incredibly racist. I don't think I've been to a country where the hatred of refugees is as big as Australia's. A lot of people I know, even family members, some of the most accepting people I know, have the mentality of "All the boat people are stealing our fucking jobs etc etc", "They should just be shot at and sunk before they get here, waste of oxygen" and so on. A lot of people don't understand that these people are escaping from war torn, extremely low standard of living and oppressive countries. The media likes to drill it into us that they are pretty much the scum of the earth.

Our Govt has stigmatized the refugees to the point where we're willing to do anything to keep them out, even if it does mean caging them like animals. It's disgusting.

Pretty sure we have refugee quotas, it's not like we're just saying 'lol fuk refugees' Boat people are fucking bad, letting them straight in just funds a criminal underground of people smugglers. As nasty as 'indefinite detention' is, There is basically no other way to stop people smuggling and illegal boats. Whether or not we accept enough refugees from UN refugee camps is another matter entirely, but just letting refugees come here illegally by boat, funding people smugglers and other criminals along the way, is not the answer.

Yeah, but it's punishing people that don't really understand what they are funding. They are told that they are going to have a super amazing life in Australia, in their situation, that would be the best they have. They go and pretty much give up everything, hop on a boat and come over, to be intercepted by the Australian coast guard most of the time.

[QUOTE=Animosus;46299858]Yeah, but it's punishing people that don't really understand what they are funding. They are told that they are going to have a super amazing life in Australia, in their situation, that would be the best they have. They go and pretty much give up everything, hop on a boat and come over, to be intercepted by the Australian coast guard most of the time.[/QUOTE] I heard they are now using Navy resources and boats to do that.

[QUOTE=Animosus;46299858]Yeah, but it's punishing people that don't really understand what they are funding. They are told that they are going to have a super amazing life in Australia, in their situation, that would be the best they have. They go and pretty much give up everything, hop on a boat and come over, to be intercepted by the Australian coast guard most of the time.[/QUOTE] hopefully, if we stop enough boats, word will get back to these countries that they will not arrive. I think that's backed up by the statistics of the number of boats attempting the crossing under labor vs liberal governments.

[QUOTE=iwancoppa;46300046]hopefully, if we stop enough boats, word will get back to these countries that they will not arrive. I think that's backed up by the statistics of the number of boats attempting the crossing under labor vs liberal governments.[/QUOTE] What statistics? Liberal party have refused to release any statistics of the boats they have turned back. And the boats will keep coming for as long as there is poverty and war in countries who are less fortunate than us.

I really wonder what the Australian reception of Caucasian Catholic Europeans refugees coming from a war-torn Europe would be. They certainly seem to have accepted our impoverished, job stealing uneducated diaspora.

It's the modern White Australia policy, make it harder for refugees to enter this Country and give them bogus hope Literally a really similar method to how they treated anyone else who wasn't from Europe/North America who tried to come settle in this Country by giving them out the ass test and language test that made no sense Now we chuck these poor bastards on an island, tell them they'll never resettle and treat them to a life full of pain and agony It's time to end this shit [editline]22nd October 2014[/editline] Anyone who says Australia is not a racist country is honestly kidding themselves

The reason Australians are scared of refugees taking their jobs is because they damn well know who's got the better work ethic. Go back 160 years and think about the mass immigration of Asians during the gold rushes, it's the exact same situation.

And there I was imagining some Aussie fondling a Michaelangelo statue while on holiday in Rome...

[QUOTE=ScottyWired;46300843]The reason Australians are scared of refugees taking their jobs is because they damn well know who's got the better work ethic. Go back 160 years and think about the mass immigration of Asians during the gold rushes, it's the exact same situation.[/QUOTE] or perhaps its just cheaper to employ a somebody with a refugee background, and pay em less.

[QUOTE=shackleford;46300934]or perhaps its just cheaper to employ a somebody with a refugee background, and pay em less.[/QUOTE] They're cheaper because they're more willing to work. Simple.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;46300834]It's the modern White Australia policy, make it harder for refugees to enter this Countries and give them bogus hope Literally a really similar method to how they treated anyone else who wasn't from Europe/North America who tried to come settle in this Country by giving them out the ass test and language test that made no sense Now we chuck these poor bastards on an island, tell them they'll never resettle and treat them to a lifelong full of pain and agony It's time to end this shit [editline]22nd October 2014[/editline] Anyone who says Australia is not a racist country is honestly kidding themselves[/QUOTE] lol were not discriminating people based on race. were not allowing people who are perhaps a threat to society from entering Australia because of multiple reasons such as lack of identification. this means that a white fellow chugging along in a boat without ID would most likely be denied entering. and we should be praising the coalition for giving this sense of protection as they are securing our borders from this type of threat. [editline]22nd October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=ScottyWired;46300940]They're cheaper because they're more willing to work. Simple.[/QUOTE] funny thing is asians during the gold rushes weren't refugees haha. Saying refugees have better work ethic, and contrariwise, an ordinary pleb of society have better work ethic than a refugee is just a dumb thing to say. it mostly stems upon an individual's capacity, rather than their actual position in whether they're a refugee or a citizenpleb.

[QUOTE=ScottyWired;46300940]They're cheaper because they're more willing to work. Simple.[/QUOTE] It's just that they need the money a lot more than regular citizens, so they are willing to work more for less. That's not good work ethics, that's desperation.

[QUOTE=Oscar Lima Echo;46301016]It's just that they need the money a lot more than regular citizens, so they are willing to work more for less. That's not good work ethics, that's desperation.[/QUOTE] On top of that, these type of refugees are well looked after under our welfare system. This is quite well fair.

[QUOTE=shackleford;46300967]we should be praising the coalition for giving this sense of protection as they are securing our borders from this type of threat.[/QUOTE] No we shouldn't? It's an infinite loop of fear-mongering. The government "protecting" Australia from refugees ends up making Australia more scared of refugees, so the government tightens the "protection" in order to address the fears, which lead to the general public becoming even [I]more[/I] scared. And the cycle repeats.

[QUOTE=ScottyWired;46301069]No we shouldn't? It's an infinite loop of fear-mongering. The government "protecting" Australia from refugees ends up making Australia more scared of refugees, so the government tightens the "protection" in order to address the fears, which lead to the general public becoming even [I]more[/I] scared. And the cycle repeats.[/QUOTE] we shouldnt be allowing just any tom, dick or harry onto our shores as it can pave the way for the growth of terrorism in this country when individuals are failed to be properly identified. Without properly monitoring our borders, Australia is susceptible to drug and weapons smuggling which can have dire consequences on the peaceful loving society we live in Australia. hopeless greeny lefty policies should rot, while pragmatic approaches dominate.

[QUOTE=shackleford;46301083]we shouldnt be allowing just any tom, dick and harry onto our shores as it can pave the way for the growth of terrorism in this country when individuals are failed to be properly identified. Without properly monitoring our borders, Australia is susceptible to drug and weapons smuggling which can have dire consequences on the peaceful loving society we live in Australia.[/QUOTE] I can agree that border security is very important in our modern times what with the threat of ISIS and ebola, but these policies have been going on for decades.

[QUOTE=iwancoppa;46299815]Pretty sure we have refugee quotas, it's not like we're just saying 'lol fuk refugees' Boat people are fucking bad, letting them straight in just funds a criminal underground of people smugglers. As nasty as 'indefinite detention' is, There is basically no other way to stop people smuggling and illegal boats. Whether or not we accept enough refugees from UN refugee camps is another matter entirely, but just letting refugees come here illegally by boat, funding people smugglers and other criminals along the way, is not the answer.[/QUOTE] Countries like Canada and New Zealand used to detain asylum seekers for a few days for medical and security checks and then let them into the community whilst they processed their claims. [I]Before they were even confirmed refugees.[/I] Of course this doesn't help my point because they're smoldering ruins from all the bombs that haven't gone off. Oh wait. They're not. We spend billions a year on offshore detention. It would cost far less to fly them over here, undercut the people smugglers and keep them safe and let them start their new lives and spend the extra money on helping them integrate and making Australians realise that they're people. Who are scared. Who need help and a home. Of course, indefinite detention and stopping the boats worked to break the underground people smuggling ring and help save lives and now people don't try that anymore, right? Nope. What do we know about the effectiveness of the boat stopping operation and indefinite detention? We know: no boat has arrived in Australia. [I]Arrived.[/I] How many have set out for Australia? Plenty, we don't know how many exactly and how many people but we know people still risk their lives and they still pay people smugglers. Why would they do that though? They know they won't get here! Well, surprisingly, if you're running for your life, for safety, fleeing from persecution in your country of origin (which is the [I]only[/I] requirement to be a refugee) indefinite detention and futile boat attempts are more appealing than staying in your home country. Think about that. All the people who say "why don't they stay in their own country and solve their own problems first" never seem to stop and think: they probably [I]have.[/I] They haven't just upped and left like a holiday trip without much thought. These people are leaving everything they know, the places they grew up, their friends and neighbours. Their country. To come to indefinite detention in the hope that maybe they can get in. It took a helluva lot to convince them they had to go I guarantee you. And the moment that indefinite detention and boat stopping becomes a deterrant for these people is a moment of extremely disgusting policy and shameful behaviour... by Australians. Imagine what we'd have to do to be [I]worse than the terrorists, [B]worse than death.[/B][/I] Because you know, they knew that people died going on the boat journeys back when they took them when people were drowning. They didn't get on oblivious to the fact that they might die on the way. They preferred to risk their life to get here than to have to go back to their country. Yeah. We're saying 'lol fuk refugees' the moment we say that legitimate refugees do not get afforded the rights and protections they should under the convention. Indefinite detention is not the only way to stop them. Because it doesn't stop them. Read on to see how it's worked in the past. [QUOTE=shackleford;46300967]lol were not discriminating people based on race. were not allowing people who are perhaps a threat to society from entering Australia because of multiple reasons such as lack of identification. this means that a white fellow chugging along in a boat without ID would most likely be denied entering. and we should be praising the coalition for giving this sense of protection as they are securing our borders from this type of threat. [editline]22nd October 2014[/editline] funny thing is asians during the gold rushes weren't refugees haha. Saying refugees have better work ethic, and contrariwise, an ordinary pleb of society have better work ethic than a refugee is just a dumb thing to say. it mostly stems upon an individual's capacity, rather than their actual position in whether they're a refugee or a citizenpleb.[/QUOTE] Refugees and Asylum seekers are no threat to Australians. What basis do you have for that claim? Show me where asylum seekers have threatened Australian lives at a rate greater than that of the general population. Australia and plenty of other countries have taken refugees for decades with no problems. We took tens of thousands of refugees from the vietnam war (thanks to Malcolm Fraser). These people came with ID though right? Are you kidding. They probably hadn't even seen a photograph in their lives. What did we do? This is for you if you rolled your eyes when I said it'd be better to fly them and process them here without delay "that'd never work you idiot": We built processing centres off shore. We didn't detain them, we processed them. Then we flew them - that's right, we put them on [I]our planes[/I] - to Australia. Tens of thousands a year. Without a hitch. Of course that threat wasn't as bad as terrorists back then. It's not like we were dealing with the Viet Cong haha- wait we were. And you know what? Of all the processed refugees, in Australia's whole history, we've never had a terrorist attack from one of them. Not even the asylum seekers. Not one. And they definitely didn't have the security checks we have now. And those people joined Australian society and helped out. And they built our community stronger and prouder. Well I'll be. [QUOTE=shackleford;46301030]On top of that, these type of refugees are well looked after under our welfare system. This is quite well fair.[/QUOTE] No. They're not. You've been gobbling up a $#!7 tonne of [URL="http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/f/myth-email.php"]propaganda by racists[/URL]. They are looked after just the same as any Australian... permanent resident. And that's a far cry from an Australian citizen. Sorry. "Boat people are a threat" and "our policy is working" are what desensitized, intolerent Australians accept without actually giving it any thought. Or what idiot politicians say to get elected next time 'round. Both major political parties are pathetic at this. [editline]22nd October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=shackleford;46301083]we shouldnt be allowing just any tom, dick or harry onto our shores as it can pave the way for the growth of terrorism in this country when individuals are failed to be properly identified. Without properly monitoring our borders, Australia is susceptible to drug and weapons smuggling which can have dire consequences on the peaceful loving society we live in Australia. hopeless greeny lefty policies should rot, while pragmatic approaches dominate.[/QUOTE] Yeah refugees don't smuggle drugs or weapons. We can kinda see them all sitting there trying not to die of dehydration. Terrorism comes from inside the country. As I said, we've been accepting refugees for years. Not one has been a terrorist. Even during the vietnam war. We can properly identify threats with or without their own ID. You have zero clue about the refugee processing process. This has been going on without a problem for decades. Accepting and processing refugees without ID. ID means nothing. There are other ways to identify threats and we do identify them already. And most of the people who get on boats get accepted as genuine refugees. [editline]22nd October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=ScottyWired;46301368]I can agree that border security is very important in our modern times what with the threat of ISIS and ebola, but these policies have been going on for decades. In the fantastical non-world inside my head, which features Australia as the world's first Technocratic Centre-Left Capitalist society, refugees would get thoroughly screened and their boats dismantled. If they aren't able to be identified, they get sent to a high-security pseudo city that provides all sorts of trade education and base-level work like farming and simple manufacturing. The goods they produce are handed over to city management (in return for currency used only in the city, effectively preventing escape), which are then sold to the rest of Australia with a net profit ratio of 1%. The idea is that Australian businesses can reduce their reliance on Chinese manufacturing by purchasing from the refugee-city, and at the same time shaping refugees into useful workers like carpenters, road makers, and party pie bakers. All residents are constantly assessed, so the most proficient and well-behaved are moved out by offering full Australian citizenship and work placement once the city is deemed overloaded. There are no secret police in this process, I swear.[/QUOTE] You don't even need this dystopian solution. We have and other countries have done this before without a hitch. Essentially straight away assimilate the people into society, while their claims are being processed. It works. It has worked. This concept of a threat is ridiculous and I can't even find one instance where a refugee [I]anywhere[/I] turned out to be a terrorist. [editline]22nd October 2014[/editline] You know what I can find? [URL="http://www.abc.net.au/correspondents/content/2013/s3696742.htm"]Examples of people lighting themselves on fire to avoid being taken back to their country.[/URL] It's ok, we just have to install flame throwers in our detention centres and singe the refugees then they'll know not to come back.

[QUOTE=gerbe1;46301386]You don't even need this dystopian solution.[/QUOTE] spoilsport :<

[QUOTE=ScottyWired;46301535]spoilsport :<[/QUOTE] I'm great fun at parties.

The thing is with Vietnamese refugees is that not everybody was a goody2shoes in Australia. Some of their presence led to the creation of gangs like the 5T. And you can see how much turmoil they created when these types of fellows who have profiteering incentives through illicit drug trades, and luckily, our well trained police force had stamped em out. And this is one of the biggest problems in attempting to identify who is and what is a genuine refugee. Australia isn't just some utopia with its gates closed. Scottywired's visionary idea is just what we need to control these threats boat people pose to our shores. An authorititative state with tight security to ensure the protection of Australia is what we need to prevent these perceived threats. In fact, refugees that are recognised in Australia and living here do get looked after the government which is quite altruistic. This is nice. Pretty sure racism is not as massive as you'd think it would be in Australia and it is probably exaggerated, and just because somebody's against bringing in boat people in Australia doesn't mean that person's a racist. I'm not denying that racism exists. Also how can you tell that if someone comes here on a dinghy, dressed poor, is a genuine refugee? You know apparently there are idiots from other countries accepting scams where they sell everything in order to catch a trip to Australia in the hopes of getting accepted into Australia as a refugee. I wish there was a competent world authoritative cosmopolitan socialist government to fix up all this mess and clean up the incompetences of corrupt governments in shithole countries. It's also strange, why would the Vietcong even bother coming onto a plane to Australia when they're probably loyal to their own ideology within their prideful background of Vietnam, busy fighting the South Vietnamese and Amercians? Like why would the even bother trying to start up some sort of Marxist revolution in Australia or some bombing, when they'd be spending their resources fighting for reunification. In other words its just to simplistic to say it was all jolly good fine when refugees came here. There's always like some sort of social friction and assimilation problems initially, but that generally gets rectified for the goody2shoes, but for these fledgling criminal gangs generally take time to be properly rectified.

[QUOTE=shackleford;46301766]The thing is with Vietnamese refugees is that not everybody was a goody2shoes in Australia. Some of their presence led to the creation of gangs like the 5T. And you can see how much turmoil they created when these types of fellows who have profiteering incentives through illicit drug trades, and luckily, our well trained police force had stamped em out. And this is one of the biggest problems in attempting to identify who is and what is a genuine refugee. Australia isn't just some utopia with its gates closed. Scottywired's visionary idea is just what we need to control these threats boat people pose to our shores. An authorititative state with tight security to ensure the protection of Australia is what we need to prevent these perceived threats. In fact, refugees that are recognised in Australia and living here do get looked after the government which is quite altruistic. This is nice. Pretty sure racism is not as massive as you'd think it would be in Australia and it is probably exaggerated, and just because somebody's against bringing in boat people in Australia doesn't mean that person's a racist. I'm not denying that racism exists. Also how can you tell that if someone comes here on a dinghy, dressed poor, is a genuine refugee? You know apparently there are idiots from other countries accepting scams where they sell everything in order to catch a trip to Australia in the hopes of getting accepted into Australia as a refugee. I wish there was a competent world authoritative cosmopolitan socialist government to fix up all this mess and clean up the incompetences of corrupt governments in shithole countries.[/QUOTE] How do they tell they're a genuine refugee? I don't know but they've been doing it for decades. Maybe something to do with the gratefulness of being allowed into a safe country has something to do with their general honesty. You haven't once given me a good example of this alleged threat. The fact you think they are threats is telling of a fear of outsiders... As for 5T that's close to a good example, but it's very much a matter of assimilation. I am pretty sure if they had spent more on integrating the people and educating the community those kinds of gangs would be less likely to develop. That kind of threat didn't come to Australia though, it formed in Australia. They didn't come with malicious intent. And the kind of city that he suggested wouldn't screen for that. It would probably encourage it, the isolation and seperation would create a general public opinion that was quite negative and fuel racism further, encouraging those people who have come from the city to form together into a gang. What is the threat that you're looking for? What are the perceived threats? Gangs? Gone with community projects and encouraged assimilation. Same with literally every other problem. [editline]23rd October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=shackleford;46301766]It's also strange, why would the Vietcong even bother coming onto a plane to Australia when they're probably loyal to their own ideology within their prideful background of Vietnam, busy fighting the South Vietnamese and Amercians? Like why would the even bother trying to start up some sort of Marxist revolution in Australia or some bombing, when they'd be spending their resources fighting for reunification. In other words its just to simplistic to say it was all jolly good fine when refugees came here. There's always like some sort of social friction and assimilation problems initially, but that generally gets rectified for the goody2shoes, but for these fledgling criminal gangs generally take time to be properly rectified.[/QUOTE] Never do they have fully fledged programs though. Put in community campaigns and education campaigns for everyone, refugees, asylum seekers and the community at large and there will be a much more positive attitude. I think given the volume of people that came, a few gangs with probably less than at most a thousand people involved are hardly significant. You could probably see in any lot of 250000 people a gang or two. I think that if we can take in 250000 and all we get is another criminal gang, that's more than worth it. And with the right programs these won't even exist As for the Viet Cong coming here, it's the same with IS, they were bombed to hell and back by the west, a little revenge wouldn't be bad from their point of view. Note no IS member has flown to another country to comit a terror attack. They're all people seeing IS propoganda and being radicalised at home. The threat is within our community and stems from our involvement in things like indefinite detention and our interventions in the middle east. The reason it didn't happen is because they have their problems in their own country to deal with, just like IS.

Yes the good ol greeny lefty policies in educating people by injecting em with positivity. Give a socialist a car and a nice home, they become capitalist tomorrow. You certainly emphasise on the themes of racism but I think it's a bit too exaggerated. When people of different culture come here, they are inherently isolated with the supposed 'Australian culture.' trouble assimilating can be caused by a mixture of different factors rather than racism. Boat people are normally risky and inherently dangerous because as I said, they carry no ID and all that, no records of their criminal history etc.. And you know what i don't get, is that certain 'refugees are avoiding prosecution.' Maybe they were or not guilty under that particular legal system for whatever action the refugee did. It's really ambiguous and cannot be really proven at all. So this is why I believe we shouldn't just open the channel gates and let the boat people ride in. There should be very strict control. Therefore, just believing that the borders should be tightened is not necessarily racist at all.

Wait, what is all this about? Can a Strayan explain why there are refugees and stuff?