Obama condemns Russia after airliner downed in Ukraine - Polidicks

[QUOTE]HRABOVE, Ukraine, July 18 (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama demanded Russia stop supporting separatists in eastern Ukraine after the downing of a Malaysian airline by a surface-to-air missile he said was fired from rebel territory raised the prospect of more sanctions on Moscow.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://news.msn.com/world/obama-condemns-russia-after-airliner-downed-in-ukraine"]Source[/URL]

I'm not sure I understand the funny ratings, what else is he supposed to do? At least he's condemned them, that's more than what the EU has done up to this point and this is essentially a European problem. [QUOTE]German Chancellor Angela Merkel said it was too early to decide on further sanctions before it was known exactly what had happened to the plane. Britain said the facts must be established by a UN-led investigation before additional sanctions were seriously considered.[/QUOTE] Pathetic. Hundreds of European corpses dot the Ukrainian country side and the EU dithers, as usual.

[QUOTE=Srillo;45431266]EU dithers, as usual.[/QUOTE] Because the EU gets its gas from Russia, and with Germany cutting their nuclear program, they're more reliant on Russian gas than ever.

[QUOTE=capital;45431290]Because the EU gets its gas from Russia, and with Germany cutting their nuclear program, they're more reliant on Russian gas than ever.[/QUOTE] That's what happens when you make stupid break-neck policy changes based on a one-off incident that happened on the other side of the planet.

[QUOTE=Srillo;45431266] Pathetic. Hundreds of European corpses dot the Ukrainian country side and the EU dithers, as usual.[/QUOTE] Yet, there is some reasoning behind this calm approach of the EU leaders. Cutting trade with Russia will benefit none of the populace either in Europe or Russia. On the other hand, France is selling war ships to Russia and that is simply unacceptable. The truth of the matter is that EU and CIS are battling over former soviet states signing deals with one or the other and that is prolly where this conflict stems from. But I can't forget the fact that a few years ago, Russia was eager to also join EU.Putin& Medvedev spoke on numerous ocasions about the prospects of EU from Lisbon to Vladivostok. I wonder WTF happened since then?

[QUOTE=Srillo;45431266] Pathetic. Hundreds of European corpses dot the Ukrainian country side and the EU dithers, as usual.[/QUOTE] what's pathetic about establishing facts?

[QUOTE=godfatherk;45431368]Yet, there is some reasoning behind this calm approach of the EU leaders. Cutting trade with Russia will benefit none of the populace either in Europe or Russia. On the other hand, France is selling war ships to Russia and that is simply unacceptable. The truth of the matter is that EU and CIS are battling over former soviet states signing deals with one or the other and that is prolly where this conflict stems from. But I can't forget the fact that a few years ago, [B]Russia was eager to also join EU.Putin& Medvedev spoke on numerous ocasions about the prospects of EU from Lisbon to Vladivostok. I wonder WTF happened since then?[/B][/QUOTE] Maybe they watched [I]Oliver Stone's Untold History of the USA[/I].

[QUOTE=godfatherk;45431368]Yet, there is some reasoning behind this calm approach of the EU leaders. Cutting trade with Russia will benefit none of the populace either in Europe or Russia. On the other hand, France is selling war ships to Russia and that is simply unacceptable. The truth of the matter is that EU and CIS are battling over former soviet states signing deals with one or the other and that is prolly where this conflict stems from. But I can't forget the fact that a few years ago, Russia was eager to also join EU.Putin& Medvedev spoke on numerous ocasions about the prospects of EU from Lisbon to Vladivostok. I wonder WTF happened since then?[/QUOTE] There was never any chance of an EU stretching from Lisbon to Vladivostok.

[QUOTE=Srillo;45431266]Pathetic. Hundreds of European corpses dot the Ukrainian country side and the EU dithers, as usual.[/QUOTE] And charging in with their guns balanced on their dicks based on speculation is a better option? Frankly, I applaud them. They're making sure of what happened [b]before[/b] they start world war mother fucking three. If they move on Russia now, with incomplete facts, they may start a massive fustercluck over an actual accident. Yes, there's hundreds of Europeans laying dead in those fields burnt to a crisp and indistiguishable from the ash of the airplane itself. That doesn't justify rolling all your Leo 2s and Challenger 2s in. We do not know why that plane crashed, and if it crashed from an honest to goodness accident(IE: Catastrophic engine failure --> flat spin --> whammo) going to war is the absolute worst choice there is. And if it was, indeed, shot down, the war would be fought with the responsible party and not just the big boogeyman in the headlines.

[QUOTE=Uber|nooB;45431416]what's pathetic about establishing facts?[/QUOTE] Facts are for nerd's! Real men bomb first and ask about silly things like culpability and just cause later!

[QUOTE=Uber|nooB;45431416]what's pathetic about establishing facts?[/QUOTE] Besides, Everyone has tried every non violent solution with Putin, Putin just pissed it away and keeps pooping on everything. ...Without wiping.

[QUOTE=TestECull;45431479]And charging in with their guns balanced on their dicks based on speculation is a better option? Frankly, I applaud them. They're making sure of what happened [b]before[/b] they start world war mother fucking three. If they move on Russia now, with incomplete facts, they may start a massive fustercluck over an actual accident. Yes, there's hundreds of Europeans laying dead in those fields burnt to a crisp and indistiguishable from the ash of the airplane itself. That doesn't justify rolling all your Leo 2s and Challenger 2s in. We do not know why that plane crashed, and if it crashed from an honest to goodness accident(IE: Catastrophic engine failure --> flat spin --> whammo) going to war is the absolute worst choice there is. And if it was, indeed, shot down, the war would be fought with the responsible party and not just the big boogeyman in the headlines.[/QUOTE] To be fair, markings on the somewhat intact parts of the plane paint a very solid picture that the plane was shot down, but I do agree that regardless of who did what here, caution is key.

[QUOTE=Srillo;45431266]I'm not sure I understand the funny ratings, what else is he supposed to do?[/QUOTE] Generally rating don't matter I suppose, except they're quite handy, and there seems to be more and more people rating posts in the first place which is actually pretty interesting data (wtf am I talking about) BUT, the god damned Funny/trolol ratings alone in otherwise quite serious/important news threads, where not too many people even have enough understanding to post about it, is pretty ridiculous and sometimes makes me wish ratings didn't exist.

I bet Putin is scared.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;45431570]Generally rating don't matter I suppose, except they're quite handy, and there seems to be more and more people rating posts in the first place which is actually pretty interesting data (wtf am I talking about) BUT, the god damned Funny/trolol ratings alone in otherwise quite serious/important news threads, where not too many people even have enough understanding to post about it, is pretty ridiculous and sometimes makes me wish ratings didn't exist.[/QUOTE] This is funny, because Obama already condemns Russia, while it's still unknown who's responsible for this tragedy. Yeah, there are big chanses that it was shot down by the rebels, but no one knows for sure. So, this Obama's behavior is a bit childish, imo. "In any unclear situation condemn Russia". Who cares about facts or investigation results.

[QUOTE=TestECull;45431479]And charging in with their guns balanced on their dicks based on speculation is a better option? Frankly, I applaud them. They're making sure of what happened [b]before[/b] they start world war mother fucking three. If they move on Russia now, with incomplete facts, they may start a massive fustercluck over an actual accident. Yes, there's hundreds of Europeans laying dead in those fields burnt to a crisp and indistiguishable from the ash of the airplane itself. That doesn't justify rolling all your Leo 2s and Challenger 2s in. We do not know why that plane crashed, and if it crashed from an honest to goodness accident(IE: Catastrophic engine failure --> flat spin --> whammo) going to war is the absolute worst choice there is. And if it was, indeed, shot down, the war would be fought with the responsible party and not just the big boogeyman in the headlines.[/QUOTE] It's 100% confirmed the plane was shot down. Likely by the rebels. Where did they get the missiles and training to use them? If it is confirmed that the rebels shot it down, Russia needs heavy sanctions at the very least.

Malaysian Airlines can't catch a break.

[QUOTE=Srillo;45431266]I'm not sure I understand the funny ratings, what else is he supposed to do? At least he's condemned them, that's more than what the EU has done up to this point and this is essentially a European problem. Pathetic. Hundreds of European corpses dot the Ukrainian country side and the EU dithers, as usual.[/QUOTE] "I want the EU to take military action against a nation before having any concrete evidence." You're pathetic.

[QUOTE=Srillo;45431266]I'm not sure I understand the funny ratings, what else is he supposed to do? At least he's condemned them, that's more than what the EU has done up to this point and this is essentially a European problem. Pathetic. Hundreds of European corpses dot the Ukrainian country side and the EU dithers, as usual.[/QUOTE] To be fair it's not conclusively proven it was the separatists nor what was the goal behind it. I mean, I myself believe it most probably was them, and I definitely think Russia should have fucked off long ago, but it's not great when people jump on easy conclusions without letting the investigation happen.

If this keeps up, we're going to have to put Russia under Double Secret Sanctions.

[QUOTE=antianan;45431640]This is funny, because Obama already condemns Russia, while it's still unknown who's responsible for this tragedy. Yeah, there are big chanses that it was shot down by the rebels, but no one knows for sure. So, this Obama's behavior is a bit childish, imo. "In any unclear situation condemn Russia". Who cares about facts or investigation results.[/QUOTE] It's either Russians or separatists backed by Russian forces, it doesn't really matter.

[QUOTE=darunner;45431775]It's either Russians or separatists backed by Russian forces, it doesn't really matter.[/QUOTE] How about rogue element within Ukrainian army? How about third party trying to stir shit? Improbable, sure, but you can't do crucial international decisions and politics based on something that hasn't been investigated properly at all.

[QUOTE=darunner;45431775]It's either Russians or separatists backed by Russian forces, it doesn't really matter.[/QUOTE] Most likely. But let's wait for investigation results before blaming someone.

So, if you're shooting guns at aircraft, is it easy to tell a military plane from a passenger jet?

The Dutch Prime Minister isn't pointing fingers yet either, which is understandable. They want Russia to cooperate with the investigation.

whats worse, the russians have the black boxes and they'll probably go "missing" to protect their allies in eastern ukraine

[QUOTE=Krinkels;45431815]So, if you're shooting guns at aircraft, is it easy to tell a military plane from a passenger jet?[/QUOTE] I don't know what planes they're expecting to shoot down and I don't know what model the plane that was shot down was, but: [img]http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/13725/wm/pd2389690.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00064/plane_64301b.jpg[/img] You'd need to be a complete retard to mistake one of those silhouettes for the other.

[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;45431894]I don't know what planes they're expecting to shoot down and I don't know what model the plane that was shot down was, but: [img]http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/13725/wm/pd2389690.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00064/plane_64301b.jpg[/img] You'd need to be a complete retard to mistake one of those silhouettes for the other.[/QUOTE] Read into it more you are missing a pretty crucial point. 33,000 feet.

[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;45431894]I don't know what planes they're expecting to shoot down and I don't know what model the plane that was shot down was, but: [img]http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/13725/wm/pd2389690.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00064/plane_64301b.jpg[/img] You'd need to be a complete retard to mistake one of those silhouettes for the other.[/QUOTE] If it was that close they would use a manpad. They have no air force, they can't identify aircraft effectively. It's a war zone, the rebels expect a Ukrainian attack and they might see a civilian air liner in the air and attack it. Stupid risk yeah, but it's not exactly easy to tell the difference between an Il-76 and a Boeing 777 at 10,000 metres.

[QUOTE=Krinkels;45431815]So, if you're shooting guns at aircraft, is it easy to tell a military plane from a passenger jet?[/QUOTE] Not if its from an AA missile platform with little to no outside intel, just using your built in radar. At that point it is see blob in the air, see dot on radar, hmmm okay Sergei light her up! As far as I understand that is.