Supreme Court Saves Obamacare - Polidicks

[quote] Washington (CNN)Obamacare has survived -- again. In a 6-3 decision, the Supreme Court saved the controversial health care law that will define President Barack Obama's administration for generations to come. The ruling holds that the Affordable Care Act authorized federal tax credits for eligible Americans living not only in states with their own exchanges but also in the 34 states with federal marketplaces. It staved off a major political showdown and a mad scramble in states that would have needed to act to prevent millions from losing health care coverage. "Five years ago, after nearly a century of talk, decades of trying, a year of bipartisan debate, we finally declared that in America, health care is not a privilege for a few but a right for all," Obama said from the White House. "The Affordable Care Act is here to stay" [/quote] [url]http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/25/politics/supreme-court-ruling-obamacare/[/url]

Are we ever going to stop arguing about Obamacare? Seriously, it's been going on for two or three years now. It's time to let it go.

[QUOTE=woolio1;48049157]Are we ever going to stop arguing about Obamacare? Seriously, it's been going on for two or three years now. It's time to let it go.[/QUOTE] not in this day and age. people need to complain about something because their days cannot go by unless something isn't just right for them. if obamacare is bad, imagine the outrage that will come if Sanders becomes president, I will love to see the day.

[QUOTE=Rocko's;48049186]not in this day and age. people need to complain about something because their days cannot go by unless something isn't just right for them. if obamacare is bad, imagine the outrage that will come if Sanders becomes president, I will love to see the day.[/QUOTE] Free education? Are you mad? I'm not paying for OTHER PEOPLE'S kids to go to college! No sir! (warning: sarcasm)

[QUOTE=Rocko's;48049186]not in this day and age. people need to complain about something because their days cannot go by unless something isn't just right for them. if obamacare is bad, imagine the outrage that will come if Sanders becomes president, I will love to see the day.[/QUOTE] If Sanders becomes president, then the outrage won't matter because the country will have moved so far left that the republicans could never win again.

[QUOTE=Snowmew;48049245]Free education? Are you mad? I'm not paying for OTHER PEOPLE'S kids to go to college! No sir! (warning: sarcasm)[/QUOTE] Actually this is an excellent analogy to public healthcare except switch "college" to "elementary school and high school." It's funny how so many people complain about public healthcare but nearly nobody says a word about public education.

[QUOTE=Rocko's;48049186]not in this day and age. people need to complain about something because their days cannot go by unless something isn't just right for them. if obamacare is bad, imagine the outrage that will come if Sanders becomes president, I will love to see the day.[/QUOTE] Once again, Obamacare IS bad for people(not all but bad enough it needs change). It sounds so great until you realize what it is. Its AFFORDABLE health care, not free. But it ends up being required so people who are poorer or lower middle class and even middle class(Health insurance regardless is expensive) are forced to get it on it and start paying for healthcare that they didnt need before. Some people get by fine without healthcare because they dont need to much at all. You would be surprised at the amount of people like this or the amount of people that PAY for health insurance but almost never use it. Now theirs another side to this. Obamacare is affecting people who already had insurance, in bad ways. Im not rich, im not in poverty either but im not someone I would say is "well off" enough to be in any secure situation. My health insurance is used a lot for me, its not the best but its good for what it cost. Because of Obamacare existing the price has risen more and more almost to the point I might have to ditch my healthcare and be forced onto obamacare. This happened because so many customers were lost to Obamacare that the health insurance company I have cant just lower its prices because its impossible considering the amount of people who use it. Its just not feasible without going completely bankrupt. This is a serious concern because now you have a GOVERNMENT controlled insurance that is beating out the other competition UNLESS you are rich. Dont forget small business owners who are getting fined because they dont have to money to support obamacare benefits for their employees, which is extremely understandable because almost no small business owners can afford ANY benefits for any employees. Theirs plenty to complain about. Obamacare is not perfect at all, it was INSANELY sensationalized and misinterpreted throughout its entire existence by people on both sides and few bothered to look into it. Obamacare also isnt going to get you a free or cheap ride on cancer treatment like some people think as well. The health care situation in the USA is fucked, and im not saying Obamacare is 100% bad, it IS doing good for people who need affordable healthcare which is something I strongly defend. But it wasnt implemented good at all, it needs change and something new has to happen.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;48049334]Once again, Obamacare IS bad for people(not all but bad enough it needs change). It sounds so great until you realize what it is. Its AFFORDABLE health care, not free. But it ends up being required so people who are poorer or lower middle class and even middle class(Health insurance regardless is expensive) are forced to get it on it and start paying for healthcare that they didnt need before. Some people get by fine without healthcare because they dont need to much at all. You would be surprised at the amount of people like this or the amount of people that PAY for health insurance but almost never use it. Now theirs another side to this. Obamacare is affecting people who already had insurance, in bad ways. Im not rich, im not in poverty either but im not someone I would say is "well off" enough to be in any secure situation. My health insurance is used a lot for me, its not the best but its good for what it cost. Because of Obamacare existing the price has risen more and more almost to the point I might have to ditch my healthcare and be forced onto obamacare. This happened because so many customers were lost to Obamacare that the health insurance company I have cant just lower its prices because its impossible considering the amount of people who use it. Its just not feasible without going completely bankrupt. This is a serious concern because now you have a GOVERNMENT controlled insurance that is beating out the other competition UNLESS you are rich. Dont forget small business owners who are getting fined because they dont have to money to support obamacare benefits for their employees, which is extremely understandable because almost no small business owners can afford ANY benefits for any employees. Theirs plenty to complain about. Obamacare is not perfect at all, it was INSANELY sensationalized and misinterpreted throughout its entire existence by people on both sides and few bothered to look into it. Obamacare also isnt going to get you a free or cheap ride on cancer treatment like some people think as well. The health care situation in the USA is fucked, and im not saying Obamacare is 100% bad, it IS doing good for people who need affordable healthcare which is something I strongly defend. But it wasnt implemented good at all, it needs change and something new has to happen.[/QUOTE] oh no, I understand that. but obamacare, as bad as it is forced upon people and stuff, is a step to a form of affordable healthcare. if it wasn't forced upon people that couldn't even afford it in the first place, and instead made free for people in severe financial struggles, it'd be an amazing thing. but when I hear people argue about obamacare, I hear people pull "this is obama trying to turn america into a communist society, what's next socialism? obama is not gonna leave his position and obamacare is obviously why". so when Sanders becomes president, I'm sure the people I hear the stuff about obamacare from will either change(doubt it) or leave the country. I vote the latter.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;48049334]You would be surprised at the amount of people like this or the amount of people that PAY for health insurance but almost never use it.[/QUOTE] I don't know much about insurance, but isn't that pretty much why any type of insurance company makes any money at all?

[QUOTE=SamPerson123;48049410]I don't know much about insurance, but isn't that pretty much why any type of insurance company makes any money at all?[/QUOTE] I thought it was more along the lines of placing a bet on how long you might live?

[QUOTE=SamPerson123;48049410]I don't know much about insurance, but isn't that pretty much why any type of insurance company makes any money at all?[/QUOTE] They make money via people who never use it and by your premiums.

[QUOTE=Rocko's;48049386]oh no, I understand that. but obamacare, as bad as it is forced upon people and stuff, is a step to a form of affordable healthcare. if it wasn't forced upon people that couldn't even afford it in the first place, and instead made free for people in severe financial struggles, it'd be an amazing thing. but when I hear people argue about obamacare, I hear people pull "this is obama trying to turn america into a communist society, what's next socialism? obama is not gonna leave his position and obamacare is obviously why". so when Sanders becomes president, I'm sure the people I hear the stuff about obamacare from will either change(doubt it) or leave the country. I vote the latter.[/QUOTE] Yeah those idiots who think its Obama turning this into some communist society and all that jazz are idiots. Obamacare is something that is a great step in the right direction personally, but I think it was implemented way too quickly for being such a serious and major thing for one of Americas most major problems. [QUOTE=SamPerson123;48049410]I don't know much about insurance, but isn't that pretty much why any type of insurance company makes any money at all?[/QUOTE] Generally yes, but health insurance is one of the insurances that tends to be used a lot by a lot of people consistently. Lets say you have some weird genetic disease and requires constant healthcare throughout life. Or someone who got something like lifelong lime disease and needs regural checkups. Or someone whos pregent going in for check ups regurally. All these things, some major, and some minor are consistant because of how human health just is. Its an on going thing. Car insurance and House Insurance for example aren't for ongoing, they are for individual and rather specific problems(in house insurance especially) You get covered for an accident, or maybe a car crashed into your house, the insurance is for those more major but 1 time things, and some peoples health insurance just tends to end up being this way because they personally never need to use it. Know what I mean?

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;48049334]Once again, Obamacare IS bad for people(not all but bad enough it needs change). It sounds so great until you realize what it is. Its AFFORDABLE health care, not free. But it ends up being required so people who are poorer or lower middle class and even middle class(Health insurance regardless is expensive) are forced to get it on it and start paying for healthcare that they didnt need before. Some people get by fine without healthcare because they dont need to much at all. You would be surprised at the amount of people like this or the amount of people that PAY for health insurance but almost never use it. Now theirs another side to this. Obamacare is affecting people who already had insurance, in bad ways. Im not rich, im not in poverty either but im not someone I would say is "well off" enough to be in any secure situation. My health insurance is used a lot for me, its not the best but its good for what it cost. Because of Obamacare existing the price has risen more and more almost to the point I might have to ditch my healthcare and be forced onto obamacare. This happened because so many customers were lost to Obamacare that the health insurance company I have cant just lower its prices because its impossible considering the amount of people who use it. Its just not feasible without going completely bankrupt. This is a serious concern because now you have a GOVERNMENT controlled insurance that is beating out the other competition UNLESS you are rich. Dont forget small business owners who are getting fined because they dont have to money to support obamacare benefits for their employees, which is extremely understandable because almost no small business owners can afford ANY benefits for any employees. Theirs plenty to complain about. Obamacare is not perfect at all, it was INSANELY sensationalized and misinterpreted throughout its entire existence by people on both sides and few bothered to look into it. Obamacare also isnt going to get you a free or cheap ride on cancer treatment like some people think as well. The health care situation in the USA is fucked, and im not saying Obamacare is 100% bad, it IS doing good for people who need affordable healthcare which is something I strongly defend. But it wasnt implemented good at all, it needs change and something new has to happen.[/QUOTE] To achieve the lowest premiums possible all people must be insured, because the guiding principle of healthcare costs is that healthy people pay in and don't take out so that sick people can take more at one time than they put in.

I hope that Democrats notice that Obamacare is in jeapordy and try to fix it before the Republicans have a chance to repeal it, but I can't count on that happening. If a Republican gets elected president and we get a Republican house and senate it will probably get repealed, which means the rug will get pulled out from under millions of people.

[QUOTE=PolarEventide;48049637]To achieve the lowest premiums possible all people must be insured, because the guiding principle of healthcare costs is that healthy people pay in and don't take out so that sick people can take more at one time than they put in.[/QUOTE] Just because you need that to achieve the lowest premiums doesnt mean its the right way to go about it at all. Because the lowest premiums would be obamacare. When means if we were getting the lowest premiums and achieved that we would ALL be on a government owned insurance healthcare. Thats one of the major slippery slopes people are worried about and I really hope you dont think a nation being largely "forced" on government own healthcare is a godo thing.. Now I dont think its ever gonna get their but we dont live in a perfect world where we can have the lowest premiums and competing companies. Lowest premiums =/= good healthcare. In fact, lowest premiums=worse healthcare generally. If everyone was on Obamacare and had the lowest premiums do you really think we would be able to get the good healthcare? If everyone had affordable healthcare and was using it in a country as big as the USA what do you think would happen to wait times? It wouldnt be like it is now where you can pretty much walk in and out of any hospital/doctors the day of.

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;48049652]I hope that Democrats notice that Obamacare is in jeapordy and try to fix it before the Republicans have a chance to repeal it, but I can't count on that happening. If a Republican gets elected president and we get a Republican house and senate it will probably get repealed, which means the rug will get pulled out from under millions of people.[/QUOTE] On the bright side, there will be a massive start-up of boot strap factories and millions of job-trees will be planted so that when they say "just pull up your boot straps and get a better job." We'll be able to pull up out boot straps, march on down to the job-tree plantation and pick a nice juicy job-fruit, and another, and another, fill that basket you worthless fucking peasant, if you work hard wealth will trickle down, any day now.

[QUOTE=sgman91;48049275]If Sanders becomes president, then the outrage won't matter because the country will have moved so far left that the republicans could never win again.[/QUOTE] Now [I]that's[/I] an America that I want to see.

[QUOTE=ExplosiveCheese;48049425]I thought it was more along the lines of placing a bet on how long you might live?[/QUOTE] No, that's life insurance. Health insurance is betting that an individual won't get sick very often, and that there are enough people signed up to offset the costs when one does. Which is exactly why the ACA is a functional system. Not perfect, because it still uses the same system as traditional health insurance, but it functions like it. [editline]25th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=HoodedSniper;48049737]Just because you need that to achieve the lowest premiums doesnt mean its the right way to go about it at all. Because the lowest premiums would be obamacare. When means if we were getting the lowest premiums and achieved that we would ALL be on a government owned insurance healthcare. Thats one of the major slippery slopes people are worried about and I really hope you dont think a nation being largely "forced" on government own healthcare is a godo thing.. Now I dont think its ever gonna get their but we dont live in a perfect world where we can have the lowest premiums and competing companies. Lowest premiums =/= good healthcare. In fact, lowest premiums=worse healthcare generally. If everyone was on Obamacare and had the lowest premiums do you really think we would be able to get the good healthcare? If everyone had affordable healthcare and was using it in a country as big as the USA what do you think would happen to wait times? It wouldnt be like it is now where you can pretty much walk in and out of any hospital/doctors the day of.[/QUOTE] I go to a university that offers health care on their own plan, in their own facilities, for tuition. Everyone on campus uses it. I never have to wait longer than an hour for minor stuff, and they have an expedited triage unit. In a system with majority market saturation. Subsidized, institutional healthcare does not mean long wait times and worse service, as long as it's managed well.

[quote]health care is not a privilege for a few but a right for all," Obama said from the White House. "The Affordable Care Act is here to stay"[/quote] By requiring you to buy health insurance, and face fines and ruined credit if you don't. And you know who enforces them? The IRS. And the IRS doesn't have to go to court to get your shit, they can just take it How much is spent on health insurance? $1500 a year on average per person? That's like $500 billion dollars. Wouldn't paying taxes to cover NHS cost be less than what we already pay for the insurance to begin with? I want this.

[QUOTE=TheTalon;48052327]By requiring you to buy health insurance, and face fines and ruined credit if you don't.[/QUOTE] ACA is going to fuck my friend because of this. It really sucks.

[QUOTE=woolio1;48052285]No, that's life insurance. Health insurance is betting that an individual won't get sick very often, and that there are enough people signed up to offset the costs when one does. Which is exactly why the ACA is a functional system. Not perfect, because it still uses the same system as traditional health insurance, but it functions like it. [editline]25th June 2015[/editline] I go to a university that offers health care on their own plan, in their own facilities, for tuition. Everyone on campus uses it. I never have to wait longer than an hour for minor stuff, and they have an expedited triage unit. In a system with majority market saturation. Subsidized, institutional healthcare does not mean long wait times and worse service, as long as it's managed well.[/QUOTE] You cannot apply your individual collage anecdote vs a what if of a majority of the US population on health insurance in the USA. Obviously you aren't having wait times, because its not a problem yet or spread to the mass.

[QUOTE=Explosions;48049282]Actually this is an excellent analogy to public healthcare except switch "college" to "elementary school and high school." It's funny how so many people complain about public healthcare but nearly nobody says a word about public education.[/QUOTE] They aren't really that analagous. For them to be, public health would have to have met criteria in a curriculum over time, making sure that you stayed within the standards set by the system. There is a lot of free agency when it comes to health which makes the debates drastically different; people who live immaculate lives are thrown in the basket with 4pack a day smokers where one is going to be little cost to the system, and one is a huge liability. That said. I fully support national health care systems as a safety net for [I]ALL[/I] citizens.

idk we have health care here and we are not communists yet

[QUOTE=eirexe;48054633]idk we have health care here and we are not communists yet[/QUOTE] shhh you'll ruin it for the republicans remember that doctors are slaves for at least one of them