North Carolina’s Anti-LGBTQ Repeal Effort Disintegrates Into A Giant Mess - Polidicks

[quote]What was supposed to be a smooth repeal of North Carolina’s anti-LGBTQ law fell apart Wednesday, as Democrats said Republicans backed out on a deal to put forward a clean repeal bill. HB2 barred cities and localities from enacting anti-discrimination policies that protect people on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity; it also prevented schools from allowing transgender students to use the restroom that corresponds with their gender identity, rather than the gender assigned to them at birth. Gov. Pat McCrory (R) and Republican lawmakers pushed HB2 through the state legislature after Charlotte passed a nondiscrimination ordinance protecting lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer people. [/quote] [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/north-carolina-hb2-repeal_us_585a8f9be4b0d9a5945692e8[/url]

[quote]“No economic, political or ideological pressure can convince me that what is wrong is right,” he said. “It will always be wrong for men to have access to women’s showers and bathrooms.” Even with the repeal of HB2, North Carolina’s LGBTQ community would be left without protections. The state still has no protections against discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity. [/quote] "It's wrong for somebody who identifies as a woman to use a woman's bathroom" while also purposefully mislabeling a trans person, and opens the doors for them to be discriminated against... And he talks about right and wrong? Oh my god, are these people just braindead at this point, it literally has [I]zero[/I] effect on your life; just stay out of it. I'm nitpicking the article/huffpost for a sec, but; [quote][B]gender[/B] identity, rather than the [B]gender[/B] assigned to them at birth[/quote] I really wish these two terms (sex & gender) wouldn't be used under the same umbrella. They're not homogeneous. if you're going to debate the topic, at least be aware of the [I]major[/I] differences in these words.

The political equivalent of throwing a kicking tantrum on the floor. Fucking amazing. Like it or not, they're being dragged into the 20th century sooner or later.

LGBTQ rights in this country are still in an unacceptable state. I'm getting tired of people saying "You got your equal rights, shut up already" when we aren't even a protected minority. Things desperately need to improve and under our next administration it's only going to get worse.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;51564605]The political equivalent of throwing a kicking tantrum on the floor. Fucking amazing. Like it or not, they're being dragged into the 20th century sooner or later.[/QUOTE] Not necessarily, there is no right side of history (aside from, perhaps, a few averted disasters which could be attributed to the guidance of a higher power), history has its own ideas. Remember this environment of sexual liberation has very little precedent in human history, and is still unheard of in most parts of the world today. It might be in the West's future to be a more sexually accepting place, or it might be just a passing phase, we just have to wait and see.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564653]Not necessarily, there is no right side of history (aside from, perhaps, a few averted disasters which could be attributed to the guidance of a higher power), history has its own ideas. Remember this environment of sexual liberation has very little precedent in human history, and is still unheard of in most parts of the world today. [B]It might be in the West's future to be a more sexually accepting place, or it might be just a passing phase, we just have to wait and see.[/B][/QUOTE] We cannot let gay rights go back. Not now, not ever. We must bitterly oppose this.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564653]Not necessarily, there is no right side of history (aside from, perhaps, a few averted disasters which could be attributed to the guidance of a higher power), history has its own ideas. Remember this environment of sexual liberation has very little precedent in human history, and is still unheard of in most parts of the world today. It might be in the West's future to be a more sexually accepting place, or it might be just a passing phase, we just have to wait and see.[/QUOTE] To just wait and see is to be apathetic to the discrimination of LGBT people - do your part to make the world a better place. Stand up against bigotry, vote for protective legislature, do what you can instead of looking in from the outside and speculating. Moreover, I will say there is a right side to history - the side that most consistently protects and enriches the lives of the common people. We can push for it to be that way more often, so we should.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51564678]We cannot let gay rights go back. Not now, not ever. We must bitterly oppose this.[/QUOTE] Remember, the first LGBT pride was literally a riot. We didn't get to where we are today by being quiet and nice and out of the way.

In 1968 we had a literal segregationist running on a platform to reinstitute that shit, as a third party, who got 15% of the popular vote. Maybe integration was a passing phase Iunno let's just watch and see lol

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51564678]We cannot let gay rights go back. Not now, not ever. We must bitterly oppose this.[/QUOTE] I'll never understand how this issue genuinely seems to be the hill the 21st century left are prepared to die on, never. [QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;51564682]To just wait and see is to be apathetic to the discrimination of LGBT people - do your part to make the world a better place. Stand up against bigotry, vote for protective legislature, do what you can instead of looking in from the outside and speculating. Moreover, I will say there is a right side to history - the side that most consistently [B]protects and enriches the lives of the common people[/B]. We can push for it to be that way more often, so we should.[/QUOTE] Far better achieved by economic populism and trade protectionism to dismantle globalization, a system in which the highest achievable aspirations of most people is a job at McDonald's. You you can advocate for LGBT "rights" if you want, but you should really file it under the "it would be nice to have" category rather than the "absolute essential pillar of human dignity" category. What percentage of the population are LGBTQ? How does that demographic fall across the upper, middle, working and lower class strata? It doesn't really seem to be an issue concerning the "common people". There are far more important issues in the world, and I do believe that this is sucking way too much passion and energy away from dealing with those, especially among the younger generation.

[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;51564594]I really wish these two terms (sex & gender) wouldn't be used under the same umbrella. They're not homogeneous. if you're going to debate the topic, at least be aware of the [I]major[/I] differences in these words.[/QUOTE] They've essentially been homogeneous for years and years. The average person has used them interchangeably until recently, and most people still do. Yes, they are different, I agree with that, but you need to understand [I]why[/I] people use them interchangeably. Being transgender isn't new, but it hasn't been a hot topic until the 2000s, maybe even the 2010s, and the same goes for the difference between "sex" and "gender".

[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;51564682]To just wait and see is to be apathetic to the discrimination of LGBT people - do your part to make the world a better place. Stand up against bigotry, vote for protective legislature, do what you can instead of looking in from the outside and speculating. Moreover, I will say there is a right side to history - the side that most consistently protects and enriches the lives of the common people. We can push for it to be that way more often, so we should.[/QUOTE] Indeed. "Silence is Violence" in contexts like these. We need all the help that we can get and standing idly by is enabling our discrimination. I've heard people talk shit about Allies but we need people to stand by us.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564756]I'll never understand how this issue genuinely seems to be the hill the 21st century left are prepared to die on, never. Far better achieved by economic populism and trade protectionism to dismantle globalization, a system in which the highest achievable aspirations of most people is a job at McDonald's. You you can advocate for LGBT "rights" if you want, but you should really file it under the "it would be nice to have" category rather than the "absolute essential pillar of human dignity" category. What percentage of the population are LGBTQ? How does that demographic fall across the upper, middle, working and lower class strata? It doesn't really seem to be an issue concerning the "common people". There are far more important issues in the world, and I do believe that this is sucking way too much passion and energy away from dealing with those, especially among the younger generation.[/QUOTE] haha man it's really great to see people thinking basic human rights for me should be an afterthought and there's more important things going on

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564756]I'll never understand how this issue genuinely seems to be the hill the 21st century left are prepared to die on, never. [/QUOTE] Because its a matter of equal rights and ending discrimination to a minority that has historically suffered a great amount. I absolutely refuse to ever let my friends or myself to ever be treated that way ever again. It's incredibly personal to us and its something that we will never compromise on. I'm 100% serious when I say that LGBTQA rights are one of the if not [I]the[/I] most important domestic issues we face as a country.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564756]I'll never understand how this issue genuinely seems to be the hill the 21st century left are prepared to die on, never. [/QUOTE] Because it's a gigantic human rights issue? Also, nobody is going to die on it, the LGBT movement is winning. Hard.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564756]I'll never understand how this issue genuinely seems to be the hill the 21st century left are prepared to die on, never. Far better achieved by economic populism and trade protectionism to dismantle globalization, a system in which the highest achievable aspirations of most people is a job at McDonald's. You you can advocate for LGBT "rights" if you want, but you should really file it under the "it would be nice to have" category rather than the "absolute essential pillar of human dignity" category. What percentage of the population are LGBTQ? How does that demographic fall across the upper, middle, working and lower class strata? It doesn't really seem to be an issue concerning the "common people". There are far more important issues in the world, and I do believe that this is sucking way too much passion and energy away from dealing with those, especially among the younger generation.[/QUOTE] Usually I'd be happy to say that yeah identity politics often leaves economic issues ignored but those are some silly solutions you've got. Protectionism? lmao. You're going to leave the US far less competitive and wealthy overall. You'll never solve the problems put up by globalism by trying to retreat into the past. You've got to acknowledge what got us into this situation and figure out how to work with them. Economics is pretty much universally decided that free trade is pretty damn good along with globalism. Also you wouldn't have the rights you have if people weren't willing to do the same for you btw. Vergiss nicht, arbeit macht freiheit. Malcolm X had a pretty good reason imo to say that if a white person wants to be called an ally, they should be asked what they think about John Brown.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564756] Far better achieved by economic populism and trade protectionism to dismantle globalization, a system in which the highest achievable aspirations of most people is a job at McDonald's.[/QUOTE] Are you [I]really[/I] making LGBT rights a matter of globalization and economic populism? Am I reading this right? [QUOTE]You you can advocate for LGBT "rights" if you want,[/QUOTE] Why put "rights" in quotation marks? What are you trying to say here? [QUOTE]but you should really file it under the "it would be nice to have" category rather than the "absolute essential pillar of human dignity" category.[/QUOTE] Equal rights and protections for all minorities is the definition of an absolute essential pillar of human dignity. [QUOTE]What percentage of the population are LGBTQ? How does that demographic fall across the upper, middle, working and lower class strata? It doesn't really seem to be an issue concerning the "common people".[/QUOTE] Does it matter? [QUOTE]There are far more important issues in the world, and I do believe that this is sucking way too much passion and energy away from dealing with those, especially among the younger generation.[/QUOTE] Such as? In the context of "the world" I agree but only because LGBT minorities have it [I]even worse[/I] than us in less fortunate countries, but as I said, domestically this is one of our most pressing issues that we can actually change. Are we really criticizing young people for showing passion and initiative towards something thats incredibly important to us?

If you think equal rights would just be "a nice thing to have", then it's pretty abundantly clear you've never had someone attempt to deny you those rights to begin with. What a silly statement.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564756]I'll never understand how this issue genuinely seems to be the hill the 21st century left are prepared to die on, never.[/QUOTE] Because it's a matter of basic human rights. It is so fundamentally basic and important it is utterly ridiculous that anyone in the United States would oppose them. Because if they oppose gay rights, how the hell are we gonna get anything else? Universal basic income? Climate Change? If their ignorance is so much that they hate gay people because of their religion or whatever, how in god's name are we gonna get anything else done?

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564756]I'll never understand how this issue genuinely seems to be the hill the 21st century left are prepared to die on, never.[/QUOTE] Because gay rights are civil rights. It's not really that radical an idea.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564756]I'll never understand how this issue genuinely seems to be the hill the 21st century left are prepared to die on, never. Far better achieved by economic populism and trade protectionism to dismantle globalization, a system in which the highest achievable aspirations of most people is a job at McDonald's. You you can advocate for LGBT "rights" if you want, but you should really file it under the "it would be nice to have" category rather than the "absolute essential pillar of human dignity" category. What percentage of the population are LGBTQ? How does that demographic fall across the upper, middle, working and lower class strata? It doesn't really seem to be an issue concerning the "common people". There are far more important issues in the world, and I do believe that this is sucking way too much passion and energy away from dealing with those, especially among the younger generation.[/QUOTE] This might be the most retarded post I've seen all year, and it's not like this year hasn't produced it's share of truly awful posts.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564756] You you can advocate for LGBT "rights" if you want, but you should really file it under the "it would be nice to have" category rather than the "absolute essential pillar of human dignity" category. What percentage of the population are LGBTQ? How does that demographic fall across the upper, middle, working and lower class strata? It doesn't really seem to be an issue concerning the "common people". [/QUOTE] Human rights shouldn't be limited to the "common people" or you lose the very point of human rights, every person should be protected and given the same ability to live happy and fulfilling lives even if they're a tiny minority.

Rights literally exist to protect you from the majority lmao. Take freedom from religion and secularism for example. Christianity has always been the dominant religion in America by far, and those freedoms exist to protect the rest of us from blatant theocrats.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564756]What percentage of the population are LGBTQ? How does that demographic fall across the upper, middle, working and lower class strata? It doesn't really seem to be an issue concerning the "common people".[/QUOTE] You could apply this line of reasoning to literally any minority. Did you just realize it's December and are scrambling to make the dumbest post of 2016?

Can someone remind me what essential human right is being violated here?

[QUOTE=Chonch;51565029]Can someone remind me what essential human right is being violated here?[/QUOTE] You cannot actually be serious. The right not to be discriminated against because of your sexuality. That's the right.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564756] You you can advocate for LGBT "rights" if you want, but you should really file it under the "it would be nice to have" category rather than the "absolute essential pillar of human dignity" category. [B]What percentage of the population are LGBTQ? How does that demographic fall across the upper, middle, working and lower class strata? It doesn't really seem to be an issue concerning the "common people".[/B] [/QUOTE] just out of curiosity, what percentage of people are allowed to be discriminated against before it becomes an issue concerning the "common people"? like if a minority makes up 9% of the population, is it free game to discriminate, but after they reach 10% is it no longer ok? [editline]22nd December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Chonch;51565029]Can someone remind me what essential human right is being violated here?[/QUOTE] your right to not be discriminated against because of your gender identity

Just to clarify something, Whoaly: I said "the common people" in the sense of the proletariat, not the majority group of a population.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564756] You you can advocate for LGBT "rights" if you want, but you should really file it under the "it would be nice to have" category rather than the "absolute essential pillar of human dignity" category. What percentage of the population are LGBTQ? How does that demographic fall across the upper, middle, working and lower class strata? It doesn't really seem to be an issue concerning the "common people". There are far more important issues in the world, and I do believe that this is sucking way too much passion and energy away from dealing with those, especially among the younger generation.[/QUOTE] The sheer, abject monsterism of your words is choking. Are you capable of thinking about what you've said, or does it pass from your fingers like a fart from your cheeks, lost on the breeze as soon as you've closed the page? For an LGBTQ person, rights are not just "nice to have", it's [b]goddamn necessary in order to survive[/b]. Asking how many rights someone needs is like asking how many fingers, how many hemispheres, you need. Once you start compromising, when you start cutting off fingers, for the "common good", then you're sleepwalking into a world of terror and shame. For an LGBTQ person, rights are not just 'nice to have', it's a a necessary comfort to know that you can't be refused service at a grocery store just because you like to take it up the chutney, or because you were born in the wrong body, or because you just don't feel the same as everyone else. It's a need, so that you can feel like you can actually be who you are internally rather than a porcelain veneer put up for the sakes of everyone else just because there's "bigger issues" out there than, you know, you. As a trans person in a non-LGBTQ friendly community I can tell you that it isn't just "nice" to have antidiscrimination laws in the UK, it's the only thing I can rely on, because regularly, day by day, I have to struggle past people that would never and can never accept me for who I am, who don't want to accept me out of sheer ignorance and malice. Every single day, people like me have to live knowing that there's a very real chance that those around me might do something unspeakably horrible if they found out who I really was. And not because of anything I've done, just because I don't like my genitals. But, you know, I guess there's bigger issues than the safety of our fellow human beings. Must think of The Greater Good. Oh, but wait, what greater good? Dismantling globalization and capitalism? What a great idea, I'm sure the same government that's fucking dismantling the [b]basic goddamn rights[/b] of people like me just because I want to wear panties instead of boxers is going to go to great efforts to turn the tide and stop the wheels turning on a culture of depersonalization, conformity, and predatory profiteering in exchange for stamping on my rights. You're a tool.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564756]I'll never understand how this issue genuinely seems to be the hill the 21st century left are prepared to die on, never. ... There are far more important issues in the world, and I do believe that this is sucking way too much passion and energy away from dealing with those, especially among the younger generation.[/QUOTE] I hadn't thought about it this way before. It does seem odd how much the young folks in particular are into the whole LGBT thing, but yet shy away from the more complicated issues like charter schools or privacy rights or prison reform. Maybe it's just a symptom of the democratization of political discussion--more people getting drawn to the clear-cut ethical issues first? [editline]21st December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=DOCTOR LIGHT;51565125]But, you know, I guess there's bigger issues than the safety of our fellow human beings. Must think of The Greater Good. Oh, but wait, what greater good? Dismantling globalization and capitalism? What a great idea, I'm sure the same government that's fucking dismantling the [b]basic goddamn rights[/b] of people like me just because I want to wear panties instead of boxers is going to go to great efforts to turn the tide and stop the wheels turning on a culture of depersonalization, conformity, and predatory profiteering in exchange for stamping on my rights. You're a tool.[/QUOTE] Just out of curiosity, do you usually make your undergarments a subject of public discussion?