EU agencies funding lobbying groups who oppose the death penalty in the States - Polidicks

[URL="http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/02/can-europe-end-the-death-penalty-in-america/283790/"]Can Europe End the Death Penalty in America?[/URL] [quote]On January 19, Dennis McGuire died gasping and choking during a lethal injection administered by the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction. “Over those 11 minutes or more he was fighting for breath, and I could see both of his fists were clenched the entire time,” wrote Father Lawrence Hummer, the Catholic priest who gave McGuire his last rites and witnessed the execution. “There is no question in my mind that Dennis McGuire suffered greatly over many minutes.” The EU embargo "has made the states seem somewhat desperate and not in control." Ohio corrections officials had used an experimental two-drug cocktail of midazolam, a sedative and anesthetic, and hydromorphone, a painkiller and morphine derivative, to execute McGuire. Three weeks later, on February 7, Ohio Governor John Kasich delayed the state's next scheduled execution, of the convicted murderer Gregory Lott, until November while the state reviews McGuire’s execution and determines what to do next. Why did Ohio, which has used lethal injection since it resumed executions in 1999, suddenly try an unproven chemical mixture on McGuire? The answer lies in a growing shortage of standard lethal-injection drugs brought about primarily by a 2011 export ban by the European Union, the effects of which are starting to be felt in death-row chambers across America. The ban severed U.S. prisons from the last large-scale manufacturers of sodium thiopental, a key anesthetic in lethal injections. In recent years, some smaller drugmakers elsewhere in the world have also declined to sell sodium thiopental and other lethal-injection drugs to U.S. states, citing activist pressure, the fear of lawsuits, and their ethical obligations.[/quote] [quote]The European Union, for its part, makes no secret of its death-penalty stance. EU guidelines call for its “universal abolition” and declare that doing so would “[contribute] to the enhancement of human dignity and the progressive development of human rights.” EU diplomats and leaders frequently petition U.S. governors and state parole boards to halt forthcoming executions. Sometimes, the supranational organization even works in more subtle ways:[B] EU agencies contributed over $4.8 million in donations to U.S. anti-death-penalty organizations between 2009 and 2013.[/B][/quote] I just thought this was interesting.

As much as I think lobbying, which is essentially bribery, should be illegal, at least some of those who use the system use it for more sensible and good-natured things, unlike say, big oil lobbying senators to no put restrictions on them.

Good

Seeing how some states are starting to go to horrible extents as to use experimental drugs as lethal injections that cause torturous deaths, the faster death penalty gets abolished the better.

[QUOTE=Jrose14;43977793]As much as I think lobbying, which is essentially bribery, should be illegal, at least some of those who use the system use it for more sensible and good-natured things, unlike say, big oil lobbying senators to no put restrictions on them.[/QUOTE] Lobbying is pretty much a catch-all term for "attempting to inform your representative of the fact that a large portion of his or her constituency wants something to happen". The problem is that "attempting to inform" often requires "attempting to convince," which, for the crude objectivists, leads to "attempting to bargain". If we banned lobbies, we would lose one of the most vital aspects of our representative democracy. What is needed is extremely strict (and closely monitored) rules for how constituents can engage with their representatives, and visa-versa. More on topic: I don't like the death penalty, so any money going to stop it is nice. Thanks, EU buddies!

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;43977879]Seeing how some states are starting to go to horrible extents as to use experimental drugs as lethal injections that cause torturous deaths, the faster death penalty gets abolished the better.[/QUOTE] If you're referring to the guy who made noises while he was dying when he was killed with a mixture of benzodiazipenes and an opiate, that's bullshit. The drugs they gave him were both drugs that you can use recreationally and give pleasurable effects, experiencing an overdose of them is like slipping into a soft sleep, and he was asleep while he made any movements or noise. I am 100% against the death penalty, but I think that the "experimental" combination is much better than the traditional. The traditional has separate drugs that paralyze different parts of the body, which has had reports of people regaining consciousness unable to move with the feeling of suffocation and their heart not beating. Both drugs used in the experimental killing were quite capable of keeping you asleep and eliminating any pain you could be feeling. (If I could choose between either combination I would choose the experimental one.) Additional disclaimer, I am not arguing for the death penalty, I am against it. edit: [url]http://rt.com/usa/ohio-executes-inmate-untested-drug-716/[/url] this is what I'm referring to, it has a pretty overblown description

i think this is a weird thing to do. sure, try to pressure USA to change its death penalty policy, but contributing money to mess with another countries politics doesn't sit right with me. but then again america has been fucking around with everyone elses politics for ages. but then again again two wrongs don't make a right, but then again again AGAIN it's the death penalty lets get rid of it however we can

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43979697]i think this is a weird thing to do. sure, try to pressure USA to change its death penalty policy, but contributing money to mess with another countries politics doesn't sit right with me. but then again america has been fucking around with everyone elses politics for ages. but then again again two wrongs don't make a right, but then again again AGAIN it's the death penalty lets get rid of it however we can[/QUOTE] Honestly, they're just playing the game of American politics. As long as the game is like this, if the good guys sit out of it, the bad guys win. The good guys have to play the game until the game changes.

Greaaaattt. Guys, stop fucking with our politics.

I just want to point out how absurdly blatant the hypocrisy is when people around here constantly decry the system of legalized bribery and favors that is lobbying, but as soon as politicians are being bribed to do something you like then it's A-okay.

[QUOTE=TestECull;43980690]Greaaaattt. Guys, stop fucking with our politics.[/QUOTE] How do you fuck something thats been already fucked over

[QUOTE=TestECull;43980690]Greaaaattt. Guys, stop fucking with our politics.[/QUOTE] Pot. Kettle.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;43980871]I just want to point out how absurdly blatant the hypocrisy is when people around here constantly decry the system of legalized bribery and favors that is lobbying, but as soon as politicians are being bribed to do something you like then it's A-okay.[/QUOTE] Fairly certain nobody here agrees with lobbying regardless of the cause, but at least this time it's being used for something good.

Lobbying is a bad thing, even if it's for a good cause

[QUOTE=Jrose14;43977793]As much as I think lobbying, which is essentially bribery, should be illegal, at least some of those who use the system use it for more sensible and good-natured things, unlike say, big oil lobbying senators to no put restrictions on them.[/QUOTE] "I hate lobbying and I think it should be illegal since it's bribery but this time it's representing my views so therefore it's sensible and good natured and should be allowed this one time."

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;43981123]Fairly certain nobody here agrees with lobbying regardless of the cause, but at least this time it's being used for something good.[/QUOTE] Let's see: [QUOTE=Karl_Nietcault;43977911]I don't like the death penalty, so any money going to stop it is nice. Thanks, EU buddies![/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Jrose14;43977793]at least some of those who use the system use it for more sensible and good-natured things,[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Complifused;43977836]Good[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=cis.joshb;43979736]Honestly, they're just playing the game of American politics.[/QUOTE] Not to mention the ratings on the OP, I'd say it's considerably more than "nobody". I will admit that now the tone seems to be changing for the better though.

[QUOTE=TestECull;43980690]Greaaaattt. Guys, stop fucking with our politics.[/QUOTE] I know it's already been pointed out, but still I find this hilarious considering the US has been pushing it's agenda and issues up Europe's ass for the last decade and a half.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;43981396]Let's see: Not to mention the ratings on the OP, I'd say it's considerably more than "nobody". I will admit that now the tone seems to be changing for the better though.[/QUOTE] Keep in mind that a lot of the posts carry the tone of - I don't like lobbying, but at least they're doing something semi good. You can still disagree with lobbying but at least find one of the goals nice.

[QUOTE=wraithcat;43981432]Keep in mind that a lot of the posts carry the tone of - I don't like lobbying, but at least they're doing something semi good. You can still disagree with lobbying but at least find one of the goals nice.[/QUOTE] Yes, but it's still hypocritical to say "I hate lobbying, but I like it when the lobbying is in support of my views".

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;43981450]Yes, but it's still hypocritical to say "I hate lobbying, but I like it when the lobbying is in support of my views".[/QUOTE] noones saying they like it because it supports their views, they're saying well at least this time it's not being used for something awful

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;43981450]Yes, but it's still hypocritical to say "I hate lobbying, but I like it when the lobbying is in support of my views".[/QUOTE] I hate lobbying regardless of what is being lobbied, but I [I]really[/I] hate lobbying for shit I disagree with.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43981467]noones saying they like it because it supports their views, they're saying well at least this time it's not being used for something awful[/QUOTE] Unfortunately, as much as I'd rather this not turn into another capital punishment debate, whether or not this is "something awful" is fairly up in the air, and largely comes down to a person's views.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;43981484]Unfortunately, as much as I'd rather this not turn into another capital punishment debate, whether or not this is "something awful" is fairly up in the air, and largely comes down to a person's views.[/QUOTE] i dunno i'm fairly sure killing someone is considered objectively bad, and at most only necessary as a last resort. killing someone when they're not a threat isn't a good thing despite what you might think of it, like, i'm not exactly heart broken when pedophiles and mass murderers and shit die, but that doesn't mean it's fine to kill them when they've already been 'neutralized' or whatever

[QUOTE=TestECull;43980690]Greaaaattt. Guys, stop fucking with our politics.[/QUOTE] Will you at least promise to put the NSA on a leash and keep them out of Europe?

[QUOTE=Matthew0505;43981647]Why? There's no use pretending the US isn't a plutocracy anymore.[/QUOTE] So what? Doesn't mean I have to like that

[QUOTE=TestECull;43980690]Greaaaattt. Guys, stop fucking with our politics.[/QUOTE] Sure, stop fucking with ours and we'll get right on that.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;43981450]Yes, but it's still hypocritical to say "I hate lobbying, but I like it when the lobbying is in support of my views".[/QUOTE] I hate lobbying, but as long as you HAVE to lobby to get anything done in American politics we should do it.

Lobbying is one of the main features in modern democracies. It's has always been the flow of money that determines the decisions made by governments.

[QUOTE=V12US;43981426]I know it's already been pointed out, but still I find this hilarious considering the US has been pushing it's agenda and issues up Europe's ass for the last decade and a half.[/QUOTE] I didnt know that the whole population of the US entirely 100% held the same exact opinion and supported what the government did Interesting

[QUOTE=Bazsil;43989707]I didnt know that the whole population of the US entirely 100% held the same exact opinion and supported what the government did Interesting[/QUOTE] No, but the government represents you as an American citizen.