A Quiet Conversation (The Jimquisition) [SPOILERS] - General

MGS V spoilers. [video=youtube;Fy-FhExTY9M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy-FhExTY9M&ab_channel=JimSterling[/video]

minor spoiler I agree with him tho

Yep. [sp]code talker also has the same parasites as quiet but his visible skin is only his head, like the End. And he also showed the End in the video explaining the same thing, and presumably the End had those parasites[/sp]

He has a point in that a lot of people will just suck up whatever bullshit Kojima waves in front of them. I get it, he's an established developer with an amazing track record; but he isn't perfect, and the whole Quiet thing is proof of that.

it's upsetting that quiets design feels so lazy coz all the other characters have cool af costume designs

its a video game where theres more naked muscly men and glorious man ass shots every minute in the game it's the best of both worlds why is this an issue now

I honestly think people are just complaining about her design just for the hell of it and because "hurr boobs r showing", to the point of believing the people who complain about her are either pandering to someone else or really insecure about themselves or whatever else. Seriously guys, they're just breasts. You're making it more of a problem than actual sexist people.

[QUOTE=vodka quest;48681127]its a video game where theres more naked muscly men and glorious man ass shots every minute in the game it's the best of both worlds why is this an issue now[/QUOTE] In previous games yes but in MGSV there's literally a fuck ton of evidence contradicting the reason why she is the way she is. I really enjoyed the game but [sp]the minute I unlocked her grey outfit that's what I stuck her with for the rest of the game.[/sp]

[QUOTE=kweh;48681153]I honestly think people are just complaining about her design just for the hell of it and because "hurr boobs r showing", to the point of believing the people who complain about her are either pandering to someone else or really insecure about themselves or whatever else. Seriously guys, they're just breasts. You're making it more of a problem than actual sexist people.[/QUOTE] Did you even watch the video? It's not about "boobs are showing", it's about "boobs are showing and I'm going to pretend that there is more to it than having a wank" [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] Quiet's design is lazy af, deal with it. [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] [video=youtube;aC0IJhMFLDg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC0IJhMFLDg[/video]

Plus he's equal about it. To the point where in MGS 2, he told his art director that Raiden needs a nice ass, but mid l not as nice as Snakes, make his better. That's just one example. It seems like people complain but don't really know the roots the series has.

[QUOTE=Raptors!;48681312]Did you even watch the video? It's not about "boobs are showing", it's about "boobs are showing and I'm going to pretend that there is more to it than having a wank" [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] Quiet's design is lazy af, deal with it.[/QUOTE] I didn't need to watch, and you literaly just showed me why I didn't need to and that I was right lol. It's like a mousetrap. You'll only get caught if you go for the cheese, which everyone did. If it's about "boobs are showing and I'm going to pretend that there is more to it than having a wank", then thats your and everyone else's devious little problem. I don't know if this is the intended effect, or if its an effect at all, but iirc, Kojima created her and other elements in the game to basicaly provoke you. I don't know how much of that applies directly to her, but apparently, it now does, since everyone is giving a shit about her showing boobs and being hot, and not giving a single fuck about how she has superhuman abilities.

I can't handle bikini women in my flying fire whale game

Ah Kojima, that silly troll, greatest writer of our century, making shitty characters to get people angry, that Kojima of ours. [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=kweh;48681341]I didn't need to watch, and you literaly just showed me why I didn't need to and that I was right lol. It's like a mousetrap. You'll only get caught if you go for the cheese, which everyone did. If it's about "boobs are showing and I'm going to pretend that there is more to it than having a wank", then thats your and everyone else's devious little problem. I don't know if this is the intended effect, or if its an effect at all, but iirc, Kojima created her and other elements in the game to basicaly provoke you. I don't know how much of that applies directly to her, but apparently, it now does, since everyone is giving a shit about her showing boobs and being hot, and not giving a single fuck about how she has superhuman abilities.[/QUOTE] Just watch the video and reply to points made by Jim please.

[QUOTE=kweh;48681153]I honestly think people are just complaining about her design just for the hell of it and because "hurr boobs r showing", to the point of believing the people who complain about her are either pandering to someone else or really insecure about themselves or whatever else. Seriously guys, they're just breasts. You're making it more of a problem than actual sexist people.[/QUOTE] i don't mind breasts in metal gear, kojima has always been a pretty big fan of them and it's funny to see him creeping like he does. it's the way that it's [I]so[/I] dedicated to sex appeal that it kinda gets a little much, it's like when you push a joke really way too hard. i mean, is the increased amount of boobs and camera angles dedicated to boobs really worth lazy character design if it kinda stops being fun past a certain point anyway? you can still have both of those, he just went far too nuts with it, i suspect because nobody told him otherwise.

[QUOTE=Cone;48681410]i don't mind breasts in metal gear, kojima has always been a pretty big fan of them and it's funny to see him creeping like he does. it's the way that it's [I]so[/I] dedicated to sex appeal that it kinda gets a little much, it's like when you push a joke really way too hard. i mean, is the increased amount of boobs and camera angles dedicated to boobs really worth lazy character design if it kinda stops being fun past a certain point anyway? you can still have both of those, he just went far too nuts with it, i suspect because nobody told him otherwise.[/QUOTE] A bit maybe, with the camera angles, but knowing what MGS has, I just shrugged it off. The B&B are a worser bunch imo

[QUOTE=ClarkWasHere;48680739]Yep. [sp]code talker also has the same parasites as quiet but his visible skin is only his head, like the End. And he also showed the End in the video explaining the same thing, and presumably the End had those parasites[/sp][/QUOTE] Uh, no actually. [sp]The parasites had to replace Quiet's lungs since they were burnt to a crisp and no longer functioned. Code Talker still had his lungs, the parasites didn't have to replace that function[/sp] [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] And then about The End [sp]The End's outfit was physically attached to his skin like the leaves intertwined with his body which is why he could use photosynthesis for energy but he still breathed through his mouth[/sp]

[QUOTE=Dantz Bolrew;48681328]Plus he's equal about it. To the point where in MGS 2, he told his art director that Raiden needs a nice ass, but mid l not as nice as Snakes, make his better. That's just one example. It seems like people complain but don't really know the roots the series has.[/QUOTE] Ah yes, this: [img]http://i.imgur.com/tIsny6B.jpg[/img] Is so the same thing as this: [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsQrzbkqs-E[/media] Raiden's played half for jokes, Quiet's just played for Hideo's creepiness. It's not about who shows more, it's about context. Just like Jim was saying, I don't care if you want to have boobies in a game, hell Bayonetta is one of my favorite characters in video games. But Hideo was out there off the bat saying "I WANT A SEXY LADY FOR NO REAL REASON", and when people were kinda turned off by that he started saying there's some deep emotional reason for it, that we would all be ashamed when we found out why, but fuck that. It's just a stupid goddamn reason to have tits in your face every few minutes. And now you get jackasses going "METAL GEAR'S ALWAYS BEEN WACKY LOLOL" for fuck's sake, that's just such a cop out way to keep blindly chugging down Hideo's bullshit excuses. He's not goddamn untouchable. Not everything he touches is solid gold. MGSV's a great game. Hell Quiet could have been great too. But her design and creepy fetishized bullshit is a complete black mark.

[QUOTE=gbtygfvyg;48681436]Uh, no actually. [sp]The parasites had to replace Quiet's lungs since they were burnt to a crisp and no longer functioned. Code Talker still had his lungs, the parasites didn't have to replace that function[/sp][/QUOTE] Yeah, the Code Talker and End argument makes no sense since they both have their [sp]lungs, since Ishmael/Snake burned the crap out of her and destroyed her lungs in the prologue which makes perfect sense in the game world since she was an assassin[/sp]. Of course there's a reason she's like that which works with the in game logic and narrative. Even if not, I see no reason why sexualisation of a character like Quiet is a problem. Especially considering that despite not saying a word [sp]as far as I know[/sp] she's an immensely engaging and emotional character. The way she looks at Boss just hits me right in the feels and of course [sp]a fair few scenes throughout the game, especially in Chapter 2[/sp].

I remember when MGS4 came out in 2008 everyone enjoyed the weird scenes with the females bosses or whatever they were but this year in MGS5 a woman in a bikini is suddenly a huge negative topic

Quiet's design is a bit lazy and uninteresting but so was the design of the B&B Corps (and they had a lot more weird shit going for them than Quiet ever did), and even Sniper wolf's outfit is basically just a jumpsuit with cleavage. Where people are stupid is when they start making a big deal out of it when it's just a hiccup in visual design and nothing else. Metal Gear has had men showing asses and women showing tits for so long now, it doesn't even stand out anymore. Oh and the reason The End and Code Talker aren't in bikinis to breathe through their skin and maximize photosynthesis is because [sp]they don't do nearly as much physical effort as Quiet. Code Talker sits on a sunny spot in Motherbase on his lawn chair all day long and The End lies down on the ground and waits. Quiet never stops moving, runs at machspeed between sniping spots and is generally speaking pretty damn hyperactive.[/sp]

I dunno man. What's wrong with having a character with their tits out? The game [i]is[/i] ridiculous and absurd and kickass, so one scantily clad character isn't about to break the flow for me... You can take Snake's shirt off. You can see everyone's asses through their clothes with thermal vision. You spend the entire game staring at Snake's ass. Dunno what the problem is here, but if you engage your suspension of disbelief for everything else that happens in this game and suddenly when there's tits out you're upset and giving detailed social critique... dunno what to tell you m8.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy Quiet and her.. physique, but yeah, I'd rather they just be out with it and say "yeah we put her in for fan service". Not making halfassed excuses.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48681500]Quiet's design is a bit lazy and uninteresting but so was the design of the B&B Corps, and even Sniper wolf's outfit is basically just a jumpsuit with cleavage. Where people are stupid is when they start making a big deal out of it when it's just a hiccup in visual design and nothing else.[/QUOTE] I'm playing on 360 which is basically just the same game but with everything blurry and hard to see, so I thought she was wearing pants and bikini top when I first saw her. I thought people had to be joking when they reacted to her the way they did. Outside of the photosynthesis thing her character is actually really interesting. Not a sexist female character in the slightest, and not even that nude. Then I started using her as a buddy and the game started forcing me into all the stripper moves she does in the chopper. Then I got it. It's not that anything about this is sexist, because its not, its because its so fucking lazy. She's JUST fanservice and thats boring as hell and waste of her characters potential.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48681500]Quiet's design is a bit lazy and uninteresting but so was the design of the B&B Corps (and they had a lot more weird shit going for them than Quiet ever did), and even Sniper wolf's outfit is basically just a jumpsuit with cleavage. Where people are stupid is when they start making a big deal out of it when it's just a hiccup in visual design and nothing else. Metal Gear has had men showing asses and women showing tits for so long now, it doesn't even stand out anymore.[/QUOTE] I'd honestly be a whole lot more okay with this is they just flat out said it was for fanservice's sake. I'd just throw it in the same bucket of dumb design decisions as the BnB unit. But instead they tried to play it off straight face and claim it was some logically justified bullshit. Doing sexy dances around on a helicopter sure as hell doesn't help you breath easier. [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=MedicWine;48681532] Then I started using her as a buddy and the game started forcing me into all the stripper moves she does in the chopper. Then I got it. It's not that anything about this is sexist, because its not, its because its so fucking lazy. She's JUST fanservice and thats boring as hell and waste of her characters potential.[/QUOTE] This too. I'm not here claiming it's sexist and a gross act of the patriarchy or any of that bullshit, just that it reeks of lazy uinteresting design. I expected better from Metal Gear.

[QUOTE=Jojje;48681514]I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy Quiet and her.. physique, but yeah, I'd rather they just be out with it and say "yeah we put her in for fan service". Not making halfassed excuses.[/QUOTE] Kojima was pretty straight forward when he straight up said Quiet's design was purposefully more erotic than a lot of things he had done before, that was literally the first thing he ever said about her upon revealing her to the public on twitter. From that point on it was clear what the character was gonna do, and he lived up to his promises that her design would be explained in game. I still think it's a bit of a lazy design because there could have at least been a difference between day and night since she wouldn't need to show as much skin when the sun has set. But it's kind of excused by the fact she constantly tries to appeal to big boss throughout the game and her sporting a bikini and stockings is part of that attempt. She's fan service, but she's fan service both for players and for big boss, which is kind of an interesting way to write a character. From a visual standpoint her outfit could have used more detailing like maybe some rolled up fatigues to cover her legs enough not to get sand and dirt all over her ass crack with bare feet (she doesn't really need boots) and a jacket tied around her waist coming down on her legs like a skirt, and at night she puts on the jacket without closing it just to bring some form of difference between day and night. Could have even brought some interesting mechanics where you can give her better protection at the cost of mobility (she can't move as fast if she can't breathe as well), or you can just keep her naked making her extremely fast and versatile but really easy to take out.

[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;48681511]I dunno man. What's wrong with having a character with their tits out? The game [i]is[/i] ridiculous and absurd and kickass, so one scantily clad character isn't about to break the flow for me... You can take Snake's shirt off. You can see everyone's asses through their clothes with thermal vision. You spend the entire game staring at Snake's ass. Dunno what the problem is here, but if you engage your suspension of disbelief for everything else that happens in this game and suddenly when there's tits out you're upset and giving detailed social critique... dunno what to tell you m8.[/QUOTE] Yeah lets face it, a lot of people just don't understand Metal Gear Solid: at heart a series about glorious man arse.

[QUOTE=gbtygfvyg;48681436]Uh, no actually. [sp]The parasites had to replace Quiet's lungs since they were burnt to a crisp and no longer functioned. Code Talker still had his lungs, the parasites didn't have to replace that function[/sp] [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] And then about The End [sp]The End's outfit was physically attached to his skin like the leaves intertwined with his body which is why he could use photosynthesis for energy but he still breathed through his mouth[/sp][/QUOTE] Yeah, I think people kinda forgot that or haven't gotten far enough along. [sp]She literally cannot breath naturally. Her skin is literally her only way of breathing.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Skyward;48681539]I'd honestly be a whole lot more okay with this is they just flat out said it was for fanservice's sake. I'd just throw it in the same bucket of dumb design decisions as the BnB unit. But instead they tried to play it off straight face and claim it was some logically justified bullshit. Doing sexy dances around on a helicopter sure as hell doesn't help you breath easier. [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] This too. I'm not here claiming it's sexist and a gross act of the patriarchy or any of that bullshit, just that it reeks of lazy uinteresting design. I expected better from Metal Gear.[/QUOTE] "Expected better" Please. One of the first things Kojima said was that Quiet was designed for sexy cosplays. And if you expected something different from a Metal Gear game and Kojima, you're naive.

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;48681565]"Expected better" Please. One of the first things Kojima said was that Quiet was designed for sexy cosplays. And if you expected something different from a Metal Gear game and Kojima, you're naive.[/QUOTE] She said she was a lot more erotic and will be a lot tougher to cosplay (not sure why he said that, but he did), actually.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48681570]She said she was a lot more erotic and will be a lot tougher to cosplay (not sure why he said that, but he did), actually.[/QUOTE] If I remember correctly(which I might not but we'll see), he said he was worried that people might not cosplay as her even though that was his intention because of the design