Vancouver home ownership out of middle-class reach - Polidicks

[img]http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2012/03/13/mi-bc-120313-housing-prices-graph.jpg[/img] [quote]Home ownership used to be part of the bargain for the average middle-class family in B.C — even in Vancouver. But as reporter Lisa Johnson tell us in the second of our CBC News series in partnership with The Tyee, "Priced Out", sky high prices mean that for many young parents, the reality of home ownership has become nothing but a dream. Lawyer Nathan Hume and health researcher Angie Chan live with their two young children in a rented two-bedroom apartment in Vancouver. With two good jobs, they had hoped home ownership in the city would be within their reach. But sky-high prices in Vancouver have left them without any options. "We have a number of friends who are in the same situation as us — highly educated, they've got good jobs, they have young kids, and they've all left the city," said Chan. Hume says it is likely they could get a mortgage to buy something, but they don't think that's smart, when it would mean foregoing savings for retirement and their childrens' education. "That's the kind of thing you should be preparing for and how can you possibly do that when, I don't know what the statistic is, 86 per cent of pre-tax disposable income goes to pay for the average house in Vancouver? I mean, you can't," said Hume. Earning less, paying more Paul Kershaw ,of the University of B.C. Human Early Learning Partnership, says young families who feel like they have less time and money than a previous generation are right, even before you factor in Vancouver's relatively exorbitant house prices. "We have a generation that's priced out of the housing market in a way that we've never witnessed before," said Kershaw. Kershaw has compared B.C. incomes and house prices now with those in the 1970s. In the 1970s, the annual household income for couples aged 25-34 was the equivalent of $73,000 in today's dollars. Today, the same age group earns just $68,000 a year. Kershaw says even with more women working, households are earning less, not more — and at the same time, the average cost of housing, adjusted for inflation, has increased by 149 per cent. "If you manage to cobble together enough of a down payment to incur that half-million-dollar mortgage then suddenly what is the primary source of wealth for those retiring, is the primary source of debt for those who are also contemplating, 'Can I afford to start a family,'" he said. Kershaw believes governments need to help this generation by making child care and parental leave more affordable. "That would have a big, big impact on improving the bottom line for young people." Chan says her family of four are willing to wait for a place to call their own. "If you had asked us a year ago, I think my responses would have been a lot angrier and more emotional. But I almost feel like the idea, that I've come to accept that we're not, that buying a house will remain quite a challenge."[/quote] [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/03/13/bc-vancouver-families-priced-out.html]**SOURCE**[/url] Real fucking nice. The government should consider controlling housing prices pretty damn soon. It sounds stupid to do that but it's the only way now that the class margins can be held without vancouver turning into a divided slum. The locals are hurting (hell, everyone is hurting) and it's no better that so many lower class homes are sold as "Built to Suit", demolished, and replaced with upper class homes costing more than three times the original cost.

Yeah I can vouch for this. Wages in BC don't match the cost of living, and home ownership is a dream to most Vancouver-ites. All that Chinese money is making housing prices soar while the provincial government sits around.

This seriously is a problem of foreign investment hurting the city. There are so many apartments and places marketed entirely and only to foreigners with large cash backings, that drive up the price artificially. It's entirely on the heads of the people who are raising prices for a quick buck, the landowners who do what MIPS is saying they do, skyrocketing our entire housing market. Even in areas outlaying Vancouver, house prices are skyrocketing, even while house constructions takes on a whole new level of development, cutting clear hundreds of acres and more to lay hundreds of new homes. It's becoming quite hard for an average middle class family to buy a home without many, many, many years of saving. I know this because my mom is a real estate agent in the fraiser valley, and does extensive work there. The market is really difficult. [editline]13th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=DaysBefore;35130088]Yeah I can vouch for this. Wages in BC don't match the cost of living, and home ownership is a dream to most Vancouver-ites. All that Chinese money is making housing prices soar while the provincial government sits around.[/QUOTE] They make a killing off of taxes and all the money that comes from these sources, they have no reason to step in even if we want them to as their constituents, we have to get really loud to let them know how hard it is. I personally live downtown vancouver, and the rent compared to other places for my small studio apartment, is bad, but not horrible for most cities. But owning is a whole different ballgame downtown. My apartment, if I were to buy it, is worth far more than you could possibly imagine it to be.

[QUOTE=DaysBefore;35130088]Yeah I can vouch for this. Wages in BC don't match the cost of living, and home ownership is a dream to most Vancouver-ites. All that Chinese money is making housing prices soar while the provincial government sits around.[/QUOTE] I think we need to cut off the Chinese money. Not trying to be a racist, but it's at the point where there's almost a 1:1 ratio of international (read:non citizen) students at our universities with almost all surrounding real estate being purchased by them. We need to look at who's more important to Vancouver, the locals or the Internationals. Personally I believe that Canada's immigration policy is a bit too lenient.

[QUOTE=DaysBefore;35130088]Yeah I can vouch for this. Wages in BC don't match the cost of living, and home ownership is a dream to most Vancouver-ites. All that Chinese money is making housing prices soar while the provincial government sits around.[/QUOTE] All the money that is coming in from overseas (Asia) is hugely inflating housing costs here, it needs to stop. [editline]13th March 2012[/editline] EDIT: [QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;35130508]I think we need to cut off the Chinese money[/QUOTE] Oh for fuck sake. beat me by what, like 30 seconds?

Maybe if they took out that "e" in "storey", people would be able to afford it. I mean, e's are expensive as hell. [editline]13th March 2012[/editline] Shit now I'm poor.

We can blame China all we want however there's no way we will get rid of them without the race card being pulled. If it isn't the provincial level that lays down the word, federal will because they both know the fortunes made within the chinese.

[QUOTE=MIPS;35130742]We can blame China all we want however there's no way we will get rid of them without the race card being pulled. If it isn't the provincial level that lays down the word, federal will because they both know the fortunes made within the chinese.[/QUOTE] Don't pull the race card. While it is an overwhelming majority of Asians actually investing, there is still obviously other ethnicity's. Simply put a limit on foreign investment in British Columbia's real estate market.

I don't think we should remove existing immigrants, but I do believe that our doors are a bit too open. I don't see why we need international students in our schools if it means that citizens can't find enrollment. If we tightened our immigration policy even to that of the United States, We could effectively reduce foreign investment raising the cost of real estate.

[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;35130806]I don't think we should remove existing immigrants, but I do believe that our doors are a bit too open. I don't see why we need international students in our schools if it means that citizens can't find enrollment. If we tightened our immigration policy even to that of the United States, We could effectively reduce foreign investment raising the cost of real estate.[/QUOTE] Better way of saying what i thought. And yeah, The fact that it is virtually impossible for CANADIAN citizens to be accepted into the major post secondary institutions is absolutely wrong in my opinion.

Put restrictions on investments...not immigrants. This is not a racial issue.

[QUOTE=McCarthy;35130873]Better way of saying what i thought. And yeah, The fact that it is virtually impossible for CANADIAN citizens to be accepted into the major post secondary institutions is absolutely completely unfair for us CAD Citizens.[/QUOTE] Schools like UBC will gladly take canadians right out of high school, you just have to have up to par grades. It's insane how many foreign students do actually attend our schools though.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;35130882]Schools like UBC will gladly take canadians right out of high school, you just have to have up to par grades. It's insane how many foreign students do actually attend our schools though.[/QUOTE] Truthfully no they will not gladly take me over an equivilantly skilled international student. Take a look at tuition costs for a domestic student vs an international one. They want to make money and they make more of it off them then they would off me.

[QUOTE=McCarthy;35130873]Better way of saying what i thought. And yeah, The fact that it is virtually impossible for CANADIAN citizens to be accepted into the major post secondary institutions is absolutely wrong in my opinion.[/QUOTE] Wow. I mean it's one thing to be ignorant, but have you ever even BEEN NEAR a post secondary institution? I mean seriously, I'm posting from a major post secondary dorm here and far more than half the people here are Canadian citizens. If you didn't get accepted there was probably valid reasons for it, don't blame immigrants for that. Nearly every single one of my friends was accepted too so don't even try and pull the "you're the exception" card. UBC even offered me unconditional acceptance despite me not applying and I'm a white middle class student.

[QUOTE=McCarthy;35130912]Truthfully no they will not gladly take me over an equivilantly skilled international student. Take a look at tuition costs for a domestic student vs an international one. They want to make money and they make more of it off them then they would off me.[/QUOTE] I have, and it's cheaper for me to take any course than it is for them due to higher costs for international. Private school institutions(Universities and trade schools that are acredited but not traditional schools) also charge WAY more for international over domestic.

Yup, this is why I love living here. Barely being able to afford to do so

[QUOTE=Elspin;35131005]Wow. I mean it's one thing to be ignorant, but have you ever even BEEN NEAR a post secondary institution? I mean seriously, I'm posting from a major post secondary dorm here and far more than half the people here are Canadian citizens. If you didn't get accepted there was probably valid reasons for it, don't blame immigrants for that. Nearly every single one of my friends was accepted too so don't even try and pull the "you're the exception" card. UBC even offered me unconditional acceptance despite me not applying and I'm a white middle class student.[/QUOTE] bro have you ever even seen UBC? I'm only applying now and I'm not saying it's impossible to be accepted, but you should see the amount of internationals this place has. All of them living in luxury condos and homes. BMW M3s and Mercedes AMG models are practically Honda Civics and it's gotten to the point where you pay 900$ a semester for a fucking parking space. Immigrants pay some 4x what a Canadian student pays and you can tell on a glance that it's the Internationals getting the entry.

[QUOTE=zydos;35131056]Yup, this is why I love living here. Barely being able to afford to do so[/QUOTE] That's why I'm moving to the Maritimes. It's possible to buy a house there without having to sell your first-born child.

[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;35131069]bro have you ever even seen UBC? I'm only applying now and I'm not saying it's impossible to be accepted, but you should see the amount of internationals this place has. All of them living in luxury condos and homes. BMW M3s and Mercedes AMG models are practically Honda Civics and it's gotten to the point where you pay 900$ a semester for a fucking parking space. Immigrants pay some 4x what a Canadian student pays and you can tell on a glance that it's the Internationals getting the spots.[/QUOTE] Very true, but they still do let in a large amount of domestic students.

[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;35131069]bro have you ever even seen UBC? I'm only applying now and I'm not saying it's impossible to be accepted, but you should see the amount of internationals this place has. All of them living in luxury condos and homes. BMW M3s and Mercedes AMG models are practically Honda Civics and it's gotten to the point where you pay 900$ a semester for a fucking parking space. Immigrants pay some 4x what a Canadian student pays and you can tell on a glance that it's the Internationals getting the spots.[/QUOTE] Have you considered for a moment that immigrants are being accepted due to higher marks and effort? And yes, like I said - they offered me acceptance without even applying and I basically lived there with my ex girl friend for months. Many of my teachers in highschool were ex-professors at UBC, and many of my professors now were either UBC professors or students at one point. The level of nonsense in just deciding that "there are more foreigners there, clearly the administration is biased!" is over the top.

[QUOTE=Elspin;35131110]Have you considered for a moment that immigrants are being accepted due to higher marks and effort? And yes, like I said - they offered me acceptance without even applying and I basically lived there with my ex girl friend for months. Many of my teachers in highschool were ex-professors at UBC, and many of my professors now were either UBC professors or students at one point. The level of nonsense in just deciding that "there are more foreigners there, clearly the administration is biased!" is over the top.[/QUOTE] You seem to be forgetting that we don't run and government subsidize universities for the enjoyment of wealthy internationals. Sure they may achieve better marks but why they can't attend school in their own country is beyond me. Canadian universities are run for the education and advancement of Canadians and international students should treat admission as a privilege. Also you can understand an administration bias when said bias leads to 4x tuition revenue.

[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;35131136]You seem to be forgetting that we don't run and government subsidize universities for the enjoyment of wealthy internationals.[/QUOTE] What what what what what. I'm quite aware we don't make universities for the enjoyment of other countries wealthy citizens, where on earth you're pulling this from I can't imagine. [QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;35131136]Sure they may achieve better marks but why they can't attend school in their own country is beyond me.[/QUOTE] Canada is a fantastic place, why wouldn't they want to? [QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;35131136]Canadian universities are run for the education and advancement of Canadians and international students should treat admission as a privilege. Also you can understand an administration bias when said bias leads to 4x tuition revenue.[/QUOTE] Canadian students go abroad to other countries all the time, why shouldn't they be allowed the privilege as well? That's why the admission fees are higher - to allow less wealthy Canadian students to afford our schools. I can't understand why you'd think that a university would accept a student putting in less effort just because they're canadian. Universities are very interested in prestige - people who can advance the university's standing by doing exceptionally well. They're not gonna say "Well, this kid played halo instead of studying but he's a canadian so fucking sign him up". My friends that wanted to go to UBC studied hard, did really well, and got accepted.

[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;35131136]You seem to be forgetting that we don't run and government subsidize universities for the enjoyment of wealthy internationals. Sure they may achieve better marks but why they can't attend school in their own country is beyond me. Canadian universities are run for the education and advancement of Canadians and international students should treat admission as a privilege. Also you can understand an administration bias when said bias leads to 4x tuition revenue.[/QUOTE] Thank you. [editline]13th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Elspin;35131223]What what what what what. I'm quite aware we don't make universities for the enjoyment of other countries wealthy citizens, where on earth you're pulling this from I can't imagine. Canada is a fantastic place, why wouldn't they want to? Canadian students go abroad to other countries all the time, why shouldn't they be allowed the privilege as well? That's why the admission fees are higher - to allow less wealthy Canadian students to afford our schools. I can't understand why you'd think that a university would accept a student putting in less effort just because they're canadian. Universities are very interested in prestige - people who can advance the university's standing by doing exceptionally well. They're not gonna say "Well, this kid played halo instead of studying but he's a canadian so fucking sign him up". My friends that wanted to go to UBC studied hard, did really well, and got accepted.[/QUOTE] You didn't read what i said at all did you? I said EQUIVALANT Canadian or International. Not a dumbass and a genius. Fucking read.

Move to vancouver island its nice here

[QUOTE=Elspin;35131223] That's why the admission fees are higher - to allow less wealthy Canadian students to afford our schools. [/QUOTE] Can't say i see the logic in this statement

[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;35131283]Can't say i see the logic in this statement[/QUOTE] ...Really? If someone in China wants to go to UBC, and has the same grades as a Canadian, they still can't go if they can't afford it. That's the price you pay as an international student, they're welcome to come to our schools but have to pay a higher fee and acceptance will always be based on qualifications. I'm fairly sure most universities do this.

in all of my classes at UNBC 10% or less of the people are Caucasians, the other 90%+ are Chinese, Korean, Indian, or African. Out of that 90%, over half of them weren't born in Canada. For a northern Canadian school that seems a little out of proportion and ridiculous

[QUOTE=Elspin;35131328]...Really? If someone in China wants to go to UBC, and has the same grades as a Canadian, they still can't go if they can't afford it. That's the price you pay as an international student, they're welcome to come to our schools but have to pay a higher fee and acceptance will always be based on qualifications. I'm fairly sure most universities do this.[/QUOTE] And my argument is that it's awfully coincidental that the students paying exorbitant rates also happen to make up the vast majority of university students in BC.

[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;35131347]And my argument is that it's awfully coincidental that the students paying exorbitant rates also happen to make up the vast majority of university students in BC.[/QUOTE] Exactly. It's simple economics, Which if elspins Chinese as he implied he will be taking at said University will understand. If you can make 4x the money off 1x the work, why the hell wouldn't you? On top of tuition fee's, where are these said International students living? On campus rez giving them more money as a good chunk of domestic students will live within commuting range.

[QUOTE=McCarthy;35131370]Exactly. It's simple economics, Which if elspins Chinese as he implied he will be taking at said University will understand. If you can make 4x the money off 1x the work, why the hell wouldn't you? On top of tuition fee's, where are these said International students living? On campus rez giving them more money as a good chunk of domestic students will live within commuting range.[/QUOTE] Rich kids with foreign money aren't staying in dorms.