Tony Abbott: All that is required for a terrorist attack is a "knife, iPhone and a victim", fears th - Polidicks

[IMG]http://images.smh.com.au/2014/09/19/5789320/Article Lead - wide6135664310j3amimage.related.articleLeadwide.729x410.10j337.png1411100942267.jpg-620x349.jpg[/IMG] [QUOTE]Shit happens amirite lel[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://images.smh.com.au/2014/09/18/5785870/DA-20--20terror-20140918123526519769-620x414.jpg[/IMG] [QUOTE]Prime Minister Tony Abbott says all that is required for a domestic Islamic State ordered terror attack is a "knife, iPhone and a victim" but has urged Australians to go about their lives "insouciantly". Mr Abbott said on Friday that Thursday's raids were a "show of strength" from authorities whom he said would be given all the resources and powers they need to disrupt further plots. "Terrorists want to scare us out of being ourselves and our best response is to insouciantly be fully Australian, to defy the terrorists by going about our normal business," he told reporters in Sydney. An Australian, believed to be Mohammad Baryalei, a senior figure in Islamic State (also known as ISIL) in Syria, has been sending "strong orders" to his "small networks" in Australia to carry out "demonstration executions", Mr Abbott said. Earlier, Mr Abbott said the attack would have occurred within days, if authorities had not acted. "The advice of our police and security agencies was that attacks of this nature could take place within days, that is why they acted," he said. Authorities say one of those orders was issued earlier this week. "It is a serious situation when all you need to do to carry out a terrorist attacks is to have a knife, an iPhone and a victim," the Prime Minister said. Mr Abbott cut short his visit to Arnhem Land to farewell troops leaving for Iraq. He convened a meeting of cabinet's National Security Committee and received intelligence briefings from the spy agency ASIO and the AFP. Mr Abbott praised the authorities for their largest counter-terrorism operation ever, involving 800 officers, and said Australians should be reassured by the agencies' ability to detect and respond to threats. "The community expects government at all levels to keep them safe, this government will not let them down," he vowed. AFP acting commissioner Andrew Colvin would not confirm how many of the 15 people arrested on Thursday have subsequently been released. "There are limitations with what I'm prepared to say, both legislatively and operationally," he said on Friday. Mr Abbott said the "vast majority" of Australians are "absolutely" on the side of the police and security agencies. "The last thing any of us would want to do is to damage our freedoms in order to preserve our freedoms. But I don't think any reasonable observer would say that Australian police, that NSW police, that our security services are unreasonable or over the top," he said. "We are simply doing what is necessary in difficult circumstances to keep our citizens safe." Read more: [url]http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/terror-raids-attack-feared-within-days-tony-abbott-says-20140919-10j337.html#ixzz3DoyDMfy6[/url][/QUOTE]

[quote]Mr Abbott said on Friday that Thursday's raids were a "show of strength" from authorities whom he said would be given all the resources and powers they need to disrupt further plots. [/quote] Congrats, you've let them win.

well no shit you don't even need a iphone you could use anything like a radio etc

[thumb]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ZSU4SG6BL._SL1500_.jpg[/thumb] Now all we need is a victim.

Android confirmed for terrorist-proof

Wow. Australia is all kinds of fucked. Your PM is literally fear-mongering. How the fuck did he get nominated?

[QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;46027950][thumb]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ZSU4SG6BL._SL1500_.jpg[/thumb] Now all we need is a victim.[/QUOTE] Guess it's a KniPhone now..

[QUOTE=zombays;46028087]Wow. Australia is all kinds of fucked. Your PM is literally fear-mongering. How the fuck did he get nominated?[/QUOTE] Old farts voted for them, same as for us here in ameriland

Watch some racist stab someone who looks remotely foreign and then suddenly it won't be a terrorist attack, just mentally ill person.

[QUOTE]"Terrorists want to scare us out of being ourselves and our best response is to insouciantly be fully Australian, to defy the terrorists by going about our normal business," he told reporters in Sydney." [/QUOTE] Yeah, fear mongering. :downs: Also if there's a real threat there's nothing wrong with letting the public know.

[QUOTE=gerbe1;46028133]Watch some racist stab someone who looks remotely foreign and then [B]suddenly it won't be a terrorist attack[/B], just mentally ill person.[/QUOTE] But it isn't though. The scenario you described really is a mentally ill/hate crime.

[QUOTE=Thlis;46028288]But it isn't though. That really is a mentally ill/hate crime.[/QUOTE] Explain that to the innocent people who are terrified for their safety because they look or sound like they aren't Australian. You think islamic extremists are perfectly sane? That they're not attacking out of hatred? It really isn't any different, except one person is western and the other is from a different culture. They're both attacking out of hatred and are both a little bit broken mentally. [editline]20th September 2014[/editline] It's very difficult to be a white, western terrorist nowadays. A scared brainwashed islamic teenager stabbing a guy because he got a text from the person he respects to do so isn't much different to a scared brainwashed Australian racist who stabbed a guy because he got a text from his also racist friend he also respects. But to Tony Abbott, those two situations, involving a knife, victim and an iPhone won't both be called terrorism.

[QUOTE=gerbe1;46028316]Explain that to the innocent people who are terrified for their safety because they look or sound like they aren't Australian. You think islamic extremists are perfectly sane? That they're not attacking out of hatred? It really isn't any different, except one person is western and the other is from a different culture. They're both attacking out of hatred and are both a little bit broken mentally. [editline]20th September 2014[/editline] It's very difficult to be a white, western terrorist nowadays. A scared brainwashed islamic teenager stabbing a guy because he got a text from the person he respects to do so isn't much different to a scared brainwashed Australian racist who stabbed a guy because he got a text from his also racist friend he also respects. But to Tony Abbott, those two situations, involving a knife, victim and an iPhone won't both be called terrorism.[/QUOTE] It's technically terrorism because they take orders from a formally known terrorist group. I know what you mean, it's pretty much the same, however a bigot taking it upon themselves to do the same thing technically isn't a terrorist attack. And it's got nothing to do with Abbott how that is defined lmfao

[quote]Tony Abbott: All that is required for a terrorist attack is a "knife, iPhone and a victim",[/quote] I thought it was gonna be an enlightening argument how it is that easy to do something hence why its not preventable hence no need for some of these crazy measures out there. But nope.

[QUOTE=Tasm;46028369]It's technically terrorism because they take orders from a formally known terrorist group. I know what you mean, it's pretty much the same, however a bigot taking it upon themselves to do the same thing technically isn't a terrorist attack. And it's nothing to do with Abbott lmfao[/QUOTE] My criticism is of the necessity to formally describe it as a terrorist group before it's terrorism. Terrorism is just using violence to persue political gains when not represented by a formally recognised independant nation. Yet now you have to be a member of or instructed by a member of a terrorist organisation for it to be terrorism? That's dumb. Especially because all you'd have to do to be called a terrorist is follow the Islamic faith in some capacity and comit a violent crime, yet they would neither need to be instructed by or be a member of a terrorist group. Bigots who use violence to further racist political motivation are terrorist groups, or they should be. I imagine the KKK would be a terrorist group if it operated in the same lynching manner as it did previously. Tony Abbott was the one who said all it takes is an iPhone, a knife and a victim. I am merely suggesting that that is not the full set of requirements with the perception we all get about what is and isn't a terrorist. Terrorism is just instilling fear in a wider group of people by commiting acts of violence towards a member or members of that group in my opinion. [editline]20th September 2014[/editline] (The last point is that yes Tony Abbott does have something to do with it because he was the one who gave that final list, neglecting to mention the requirement of being a member of a terrorist organisation and for the media: the more relaxed requirement of following Islam).

[QUOTE=gerbe1;46028417] (The last point is that yes Tony Abbott does have something to do with it because he was the one who gave that final list, neglecting to mention the requirement of being a member of a terrorist organisation and for the media: the more relaxed requirement of following Islam).[/QUOTE] I didn't know you worked with ASIO, could you enlighten me more about the reasoning behind the raids? You seem to know more than anyone about the reasoning.

terrorists win

[QUOTE=Tasm;46028557]I didn't know you worked with ASIO, could you enlighten me more about the reasoning behind the raids? You seem to know more than anyone about the reasoning.[/QUOTE] What I said has nothing to do with the raids (except that Tony's comments come in the wake of the raids). I genuinely don't know what implication you read into what I said to get that impression. Tony Abbott said all that's required for a terrorist attack is an iPhone, knife and a victim. He also said IS needed to give the order. I am saying that I don't think he's correct. I think that all that is required is a violent crime intended to instill fear in a wider group of people. Tony Abbott is positioning this as purely a one sided threat, that only people who are from an Islamic fundamentalist group can be terrorists. I think he should be moderating his language to warn against people comitting terrorism via violence towards innocent Australians who are not traditionally western, as well as violence towards Australians who are traditionally western. In doing just one side he's opening up the Islamic community to being attacked as well as exposing Australia to an attack further.

My bet? They arrested somebody during the raids and found nothing, detained him as a terrorist, and now saying terrorists are using knives, which is probably what they are pinning on him. CLASSIC

[QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;46027950][thumb]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ZSU4SG6BL._SL1500_.jpg[/thumb] Now all we need is a victim.[/QUOTE] You can always stab yourself you know [sp]you probably should, if you bought that case[/sp]

[QUOTE=Faunze;46028888]My bet? They arrested somebody during the raids and found nothing, detained him as a terrorist, and now saying terrorists are using knives, which is probably what they are pinning on him. CLASSIC[/QUOTE] They actually discovered one of the men making plans for a public beheading that would be sent to ISIS [editline]20th September 2014[/editline] the others were also suspected of doing domestic terrorist attacks or even going off to Syria to fight for ISIS

I suppose it is true the knife has been a pretty prominent symbol of terrorism recently.

[QUOTE=Aman;46028402]I thought it was gonna be an enlightening argument how it is that easy to do something hence why its not preventable hence no need for some of these crazy measures out there. But nope.[/QUOTE] Yeah seriously, I think the average person [i]severely[/i] overestimates the difficulty of performing mass-murder/terrorism. Like we're in a world where anyone with a passing wikipedia level of chemistry knowledge can go to the supermarket and buy the materials to synthesize poisonous gases/explosives, or go to a gas station for unregulated access to massive quantities of incendiary and potentially explosive fuel, or do shit like mail order literal pounds of metallic sodium/liter of 99% nicotine solution from some random chemical supplier in china. Driving around 2 ton steel bricks at lethal speeds next to pedestrian sidewalks with no physical barrier is considered a normal part of everyday life. Technological advancement is a force multiplier, and we're at a point where you're 10 times more likely to be killed by accident than intentionally. Given that almost any working adult spends a decent amount of time everyday actively trying not to accidentally kill people, you'd figure most people would eventually figure out that trying to stop terrorism is so many magnitudes harder than performing terrorism that it's guaranteed to be a waste of effort. I mean shit, you don't even need the stupid knife. The lithium ion batteries everyone is used to carrying on their body require tremendous engineering effort and multiple safeguards specifically so they don't accidentally explode. The pressure relief valves, compartmentalized cells, chemical/electrical design don't mean much if you intentionally short the battery and stab the thing with scissors. The fact you don't kill a dozen people/get killed unintentionally in everyday life is probably the biggest triumph of modern human society, yet somehow there's always some assclown in charge with the hubris to try and stop intentional terrorism.

[QUOTE=TestECull;46027854]Congrats, you've let them win.[/QUOTE] How is pledging to disrupt further attacks "letting them win"? Is the real solution to purposely not act on intelligence and let there be a real attack?

[QUOTE=Explosions;46029300]How is pledging to disrupt further attacks "letting them win"? Is the real solution to purposely not act on intelligence and let there be a real attack?[/QUOTE] Yeah why do people always go "oh the terrorists have won now" when the government cracks down on terrorism? Should the government just let them blow up as many buses as they want? Like seriously what is the logic of letting terrorists actually act out their plans?

I've always wondered how terrorist's plans get foiled, I understand that they get foiled if they used open channels of communications to buy explosive materials/meet for terror planning or activities and if they are simply too stupid to use buzzwords to hide their plans, but can't they just do it alone or make bombs in their backyards?

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;46029320]Yeah why do people always go "oh the terrorists have won now" when the government cracks down on terrorism? Should the government just let them blow up as many buses as they want? Like seriously what is the logic of letting terrorists actually act out their plans?[/QUOTE] Terrorism is a misnomer. It's the equivalent of "The War On Drugs" over here in the US. The word itself inherently creates more problems than anything. Hell, where I live right now in the US. If you threaten to kill someone in the heat of the moment during an argument, regardless of circumstance, bam. Jail for a year due to "terroristic threats."

[QUOTE=Ignhelper;46029482]I've always wondered how terrorist's plans get foiled, I understand that they get foiled if they used open channels of communications to buy explosive materials/meet for terror planning or activities and if they are simply too stupid to use buzzwords to hide their plans, but can't they just do it alone or make bombs in their backyards?[/QUOTE] Why go for a small backyard bomb which won't have quite the same effect (it will be portrayed - rightfully so - as a nutter with a bomb as opposed to organized terrorism in a country), when you can get your super trusted friends (which probably contain a spy) to put together a huge but rather shoddy plan to cause mass panic?

[QUOTE=Explosions;46029300]How is pledging to disrupt further attacks "letting them win"? Is the real solution to purposely not act on intelligence and let there be a real attack?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=carcarcargo;46029320]Yeah why do people always go "oh the terrorists have won now" when the government cracks down on terrorism? Should the government just let them blow up as many buses as they want? Like seriously what is the logic of letting terrorists actually act out their plans?[/QUOTE] It's not because they've done something about it, it's because they're touting it over the hills and far away as a serious threat (which is totally unnecessary, let us know how close we were to an attack after the threat has subsided, not while there is still a possibility. We have terrorist hotlines for suspicious activity, we have intelligence services and police for preventative measures, telling us that we're under threat right now is purely for political benefit). Shouting about how threatened we are right now by the risk of an attack from extremist groups makes people... huh, well, terrified. "Terrorist" implies they cause terror, now the government is helping out by scaring people. They said it themselves, go about your life as if nothing is different. Except it is different now that they've gone and made these terror announcements. If they hadn't people would still go about their life as if nothing was different because for all they know nothing is; that's better than having to force yourself to because you know there is a threat. To be clear: the raids I am not critisizing, for now I assume they were conducted with due cause and were effective. I am critisizing the government's language in response to the raids. Don't tell us how scary it all is, how it's a big threat right now, instead let us know you've got it under control. Even better implore that those disenchanted with the Australian people, Australian military actions or the Australian government recognise that it's about the wellbeing of everyone. We're not your enemies, we are your friends. Tell the Australian people at large that not all of these people are psychos, they're are a few who are brainwashing and warping peoples minds. Tell them to stop helping the terrorists, tell them to start to be welcoming and friendly to people who appear contrary or different to "Australian values" Fear mongering isn't necessarily the terrorists winning, but it's lending them a hand. It gives them more fuel for the fire.

[QUOTE=Ignhelper;46029482]I've always wondered how terrorist's plans get foiled, I understand that they get foiled if they used open channels of communications to buy explosive materials/meet for terror planning or activities and if they are simply too stupid to use buzzwords to hide their plans, but can't they just do it alone or make bombs in their backyards?[/QUOTE] Who knows. I remember the SUV loaded with propane that failed to detonate. The shoebomber that failed to detonate. The underwear bomber that failed to detonate. The Boston Bombings. The only people foiling plots are the morons failing to commit them They don't really foil shit, they just get lucky. The NSA says they've foiled almost 50 attacks. Buuuut they won't say anything about them other than that. To me it seems like it would be extremely easy to fly under the radar and commit an attack, and that maybe terrorism just isn't as big of a deal as the media says Hmm?