Owen Smith, Labour Leadership challenger, suggests opening dialogue with ISIS
38 replies, posted
[QUOTE]Labour leadership challenger Owen Smith has suggested the so-called Islamic State could be involved in negotiations with the West in the future.
Mr Smith said all conflicts ended in "dialogue", during a two-hour debate with Jeremy Corbyn on the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire programme.
The Labour leader said he would not negotiate with so-called Islamic State.
The pair also clashed over allegations of abuse within the Labour Party, nuclear weapons and the EU referendum.
Commenting after the debate, Mr Corbyn's campaign team called Mr Smith's comments on IS "hasty and ill-considered".
But Mr Smith stressed he was not suggesting "we're going to be able to bring ISIS round the table right now."
Pressed on how soon it might happen, he told BBC News: "We don't know. We would all hope that it happens quickly, we would all hope they stop being a murderous terrorist organisation and try and bring about peace. But at the moment there's no evidence of that, is there?"[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37104864[/url]
Recognizing the legitimacy of ISIS is not the way to go forwards. At least Corbyn has the spine to say no to something as insane as that.
Another thing from the article:
[QUOTE]And Mr Corbyn could not identify TV presenters Ant and Dec when shown a picture of them.[/QUOTE]
Don't think that really matters, to be honest.
Owen confirmed to be a total twat. He tried copying Corbyn's tactic of opening peace talks with the IRA and Hamas and seemed to forget that those 2 groups are nowhere near as fucking bad as ISIS.
Not sure how you'd negotiate with a group that literally wants to trigger the apocalypse.
[quote]And Mr Corbyn could not identify TV presenters Ant and Dec when shown a picture of them.[/quote]
The direction this world is going in is terrifying. Why in a million years should that ever matter?
Ha he tried to out liberal Corbyn but failed terrifically!
Imagine the uproar if Corbyn said this instead of Owen.
'Man sinks campaign in one move.'
Like seriously I'm all for ending conflicts peaceful and I want that to happen with Syria. But IS literally hates every other nation in the world, hates the vast majority of the population, hates any Muslim that doesn't follow their brand of Islam, etc. etc. There's really no way you could have a 'dialogue' with them.
And man, I thought he'd be a good challenger to Corbyn, but then he comes out with this crap.
Negotiating with terrorists o-k.
O - K
2016 is turning out to be a cracking year for whacked out shit, Labour is FINISHED.
I love how Smith tries to copy Corbyn's principles but fails completely because he does not understand them.
The same thing is going to happen in GE 2020.
"UK To Enforce Sharia Law After Negotiating With ISIS"
This is what negotiations would lead to.
Completely ridiculous. Nothing much more to say.
Labour aren't behaving like a proper political party. Love them, hate them or feel apathetic, the Tories proved themselves to be an effective election winning machine with how fast they ended the leadership contest. Labour are bogging themselves down for months in court cases, debates, and non-serious policy (For example, the investment figures - it's literally just a dick waving contest about how much deficit they will run if they will win, each trying to outdo each other. There is no indication on how it might be spent at all, and the amount of jobs created, not that we need jobs really at this low unemployment rate is working out at a laughable £500,000 a job in Corbyn's figures, but I digress).
All because they weren't ruthless enough to chop the head off of the far-left in their party when they were weak in the 2000s, then rehabilitated them under Miliband and then finally foolishly invited the enemy within their party to take them over in the supposed interest of 'broadening debate' and eat them alive.
[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50903787]"UK To Enforce Sharia Law After Negotiating With ISIS"
This is what negotiations would lead to.[/QUOTE]
That's putting it lightly, more than likely one of there demands would be every citizen convert to Islam
If it's anything like the Hamas/Israel negotiations, they'll ask for half of England, including London.
[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;50903724]Negotiating with terrorists o-k.
O - K
2016 is turning out to be a cracking year for whacked out shit, Labour is FINISHED.[/QUOTE]
It's more so that he wants to negotiate with IS of all things, rather than it being negotiating with terrorists. IS simply can't be appeased and their leadership and a large core of their membership are bonkers. They need to be stopped.
But you have to admit we would not have peace in Northern Ireland if the United Kingdom did not, in some capacity, negotiated with terrorists. Of course, the difference being in that situation was that there were politicians and a political wing involved.
Still, there's no defending Owen Smith in my eyes and I can't believe Labour have among the most incompetent MPs in the UK right now. What's going on?
[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;50903667]Owen confirmed to be a total twat. He tried copying Corbyn's tactic of opening peace talks with the IRA and Hamas and seemed to forget that those 2 groups are nowhere near as fucking bad as ISIS.[/QUOTE]
I'm not even a defender in Corbyn on this (his IRA actions are reprehensible if you look at them more closely and see he was also nothing to do with the peace process, and he either is profoundly naive regarding Hamas or just an idiot in describing them an organisation for 'social justice'), but both groups, particularly the IRA, have somewhat wordly and negotiable objectives, not that Corbyn's strategy was right in the slightest. ISIS literally are a group with global (rather than nationalist and limited) ambitions and no positions to compromise on at all, even by the standards of terrorist groups.
[editline]18th August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;50903899]It's more so that he wants to negotiate with IS of all things, rather than it being negotiating with terrorists. IS simply can't be appeased and their leadership and a large core of their membership are bonkers. They need to be stopped.
But you have to admit we would not have peace in Northern Ireland if the United Kingdom did not, in some capacity, negotiated with terrorists. Of course, the difference being in that situation was that there were politicians and a political wing involved.
Still, there's no defending Owen Smith in my eyes and I can't believe Labour have among the most incompetent MPs in the UK right now. What's going on?[/QUOTE]
I would like to emphasise again that Corbyn was nothing to do with peace in Northern Ireland, and also that a major reason for these negotiations happening was that the IRA were being roundly defeated in their goals at this point. He (either him or McDonnell actually, I think McDonnell was worse than Corbyn on the IRA, and I conflate the two at this point) actually in many ways tried to sabotage the negotiations by almost provoking the more extreme members of the IRA to continue fighting, and is never cited to be anything to do with the peace process. He significantly inflamed tensions by inviting IRA members to Parliament soon after the murder of an MP by the IRA, holding a silence for dead IRA terrorists killed in an ambush by the British army, and in general seemed to be hell bent not on peace but on British defeat in Northern Ireland.
[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;50903724]Negotiating with terrorists o-k.[/QUOTE]
We negotiate with terrorists [I]all the time[/I]. The idea that we don't is a Hollywood myth to give films some form of "threat". We negotiate to get people back if we feel we can actually do it, and not make things worse.
I'm pretty much all for opening dialogues with enemy states and factions for the most part. A lot of conflicts could probably be resolved if someone had the decency to try talking things through first, understanding their enemies positions to a greater extent and working a solution out from there. But ISIS is a bit of a crapshoot with that idea, it's far, far too ideologically driven to converse with, let alone resolve disputes with.
We know what the leadership claims their demands are, we know what their followers are exposed to and why they fight. None of that sounds like something we could actually work out common ground over.
[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;50903667]Owen confirmed to be a total twat. He tried copying Corbyn's tactic of opening peace talks with the IRA and Hamas and seemed to forget that those 2 groups are nowhere near as fucking bad as ISIS.[/QUOTE]
tbh hamas is only marginally better than isis
What a fucking bellend
[QUOTE=hexpunK;50903997]We negotiate with terrorists [I]all the time[/I]. The idea that we don't is a Hollywood myth to give films some form of "threat". We negotiate to get people back if we feel we can actually do it, and not make things worse.
I'm pretty much all for opening dialogues with enemy states and factions for the most part. A lot of conflicts could probably be resolved if someone had the decency to try talking things through first, understanding their enemies positions to a greater extent and working a solution out from there. But ISIS is a bit of a crapshoot with that idea, it's far, far too ideologically driven to converse with, let alone resolve disputes with.
We know what the leadership claims their demands are, we know what their followers are exposed to and why they fight. None of that sounds like something we could actually work out common ground over.[/QUOTE]
I knew that was a thing but to openly say it is ludicrous as if Labour isn't in shit creek without a paddle already.
I don't think we could ever negotiate with IS though.
I really don't think we can solve the ISIS issue without ground forces
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50904241]I really don't think we can solve the ISIS issue without ground forces[/QUOTE]
They've lost almost every one of their strongholds in the past year.
[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;50906068]They've lost almost every one of their strongholds in the past year.[/QUOTE]
it is about fighting the ideological war, building good will and rebuilding devastated infrastructure. you can't do that with drones and airstrikes
[QUOTE=dingusnin;50903680]The direction this world is going in is terrifying. Why in a million years should that ever matter?[/QUOTE]
Not being able to identify some pretty popular TV personalities (particularly popular amongst the working class, I hasten to add) demonstrates a politician being out of touch with the culture of his electorate. That's why it matters.
And to be frank it's probably even more than that, because I don't watch television and even I know who Ant and Dec are. Corbyn is either an idiot or he's wilfully ignorant. It's rather neatly representative of his brand of politics; grand, sweeping, high ideals with no room for compromise and very little actual relevance.
Opening dialogue with terrorists to a certain extent I can understand if it avoids bloodshed, but DAESH is not the kind of organisation you want to be negotiating with. They're the kind of people you save the concept of total war for - not sitting with them at a table to compromise with backwards fundamentalists who'd see the return of medieval law, slavery and genocide.
[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;50906177]Not being able to identify some pretty popular TV personalities (particularly popular amongst the working class, I hasten to add) demonstrates a politician being out of touch with the culture of his electorate. That's why it matters.
And to be frank it's probably even more than that, because I don't watch television and even I know who Ant and Dec are. Corbyn is either an idiot or he's wilfully ignorant. It's rather neatly representative of his brand of politics; grand, sweeping, high ideals with no room for compromise and very little actual relevance.[/QUOTE]
It's just Ant and Dec though, they're hardly even DOING anything these days. It's just a real dumb move intended to make him look out of touch even though he's attracted record crowds and brought an undeniable surge in party membership for being a genuine dude.
Also, considering Corbyn is one of the few politicians who are actually attacking zero hour contracts and standing up for worker's rights, I shudder to think what sort of politics you would consider 'relevant', since obviously the left looking out for the working class is irrelevant to you.
A sensible thing to do... Keep bombing them dont get me wrong but it never harmed anyone to just listen and see if they are still crazy or if they want to surrender... heck some deals could be made that cost us nothing but save lives on both sides.
Diplomacy is ALWAYS good, even with your enemies.
[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;50906177]Not being able to identify some pretty popular TV personalities (particularly popular amongst the working class, I hasten to add) demonstrates a politician being out of touch with the culture of his electorate. That's why it matters.
And to be frank it's probably even more than that, because I don't watch television and even I know who Ant and Dec are. Corbyn is either an idiot or he's wilfully ignorant. It's rather neatly representative of his brand of politics; grand, sweeping, high ideals with no room for compromise and very little actual relevance.[/QUOTE]
who the fuck are ant and dec?
why do you need to know who they are?
I mean I don't know and you don't know, so why should one be faulted for it? I imagine running the country and knowing policy is better than knowing who some minor prole celebrities are
[QUOTE=dingusnin;50903680]The direction this world is going in is terrifying. Why in a million years should that ever matter?[/QUOTE]
bbc are trying so hard to undermine corbyn its hilarious.
in this very same debate (organized by the bbc), the undecideds at the end got told to pick a side and the overwhelming majority went to corbyns side. the only mention of this from the bbc is on their "as it happened" live reporting of the debate. no news story about it or anything.
like you have to understand that the dude everyone is calling unelectable literally got a big group of undecided people to walk over to his side, ive not seen that happen like, ever.
And they say he's unelectable!!
Only diplomacy with ISIS can be done is to do deliver them a unconditional surrender ultimatum. Whatever by whole organizations or to individual groups.
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