Egypt's President, "It's time for an Arab coalition against ISIS"; May lead to a rebirth of pan-Arab - Polidicks

[quote]As ISIS continues it murderous rampage in the Middle East, Egypt's President said it's time for more Arab countries to join forces against the terror group. [B]"The need for a unified Arab force is growing and becoming more pressing every day,[/B]" Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi said in a televised speech Sunday. El-Sisi said Jordan and the United Arab Emirates have offered military help as Egypt amplifies its battle against ISIS in neighboring Libya. [B]CNN military analyst Maj. Gen. James "Spider" Marks said "it's about time" an Arab leader like el-Sisi made such a statement.[/B] "Strategically and politically for the region, this is a big deal, and it's absolutely the right first step," the retired U.S. Army officer said. El-Sisi's statement came after U.S. President Barack Obama called for other countries last week to step up their efforts in the fight against ISIS. The United States is leading a coalition to fight ISIS from the sky over Iraq and Syria. But according to U.S. Central Command, [B]80% of the airstrikes have been conducted by the United States;[/B] the other 20% were launched by other coalition countries. And there's serious doubt about whether airstrikes alone will eliminate ISIS. "The airstrikes aren't going to get the job done," CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes told CNN's "New Day." [B]"We need the Arab states to be the ones to eventually put the boots on the ground. [/B]Whether they actually end up doing it and being dedicated to this, we'll have to see." [B]El-Sisi didn't specify exactly what he meant by a "united Arab force" and whether that means troops on the ground. The idea of a pan-Arab force has been talked about for generations. But past efforts have been marred by distrust among Arab nations.[/B] Now, they have a common enemy in ISIS, a formidable regional threat.[/quote] [url]http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/23/middleeast/isis-crisis/index.html[/url]

Return of the Islamic Golden age?

[QUOTE=Benjimon007;47198211]Return of the Islamic Golden age?[/QUOTE] Nationalism is the opposite of Islamism in this case.

[QUOTE=Benjimon007;47198211]Return of the Islamic Golden age?[/QUOTE] Arab Nazis aren't exactly a golden age.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47198231]Nationalism is the opposite of Islamism in this case.[/QUOTE] islamism is a recent ideology though, it has nothing to do with the old islamic civilization which was a great deal more advanced than the western world at the time, which is probably what he's referring to [editline]e[/editline] then again, pan-arabism has been largely a secular idea, pushed by arab socialist parties like the early ba'ath party before it split between the iraqi and syrian branches

[QUOTE=Benjimon007;47198211]Return of the Islamic Golden age?[/QUOTE] I chuckled

Just like eternal life, it seems like pan-arabism is always just around the corner.

[QUOTE=Benjimon007;47198211]Return of the Islamic Golden age?[/QUOTE] Returning to that probably isn't the best idea.

[QUOTE=Deng;47198360]Returning to that probably isn't the best idea.[/QUOTE] Unless it was peaceful and brought about advances in math, astronomy, and architecture, like the last Islamic Golden age did. Sure it was bad but you can't deny the extent of Arab influence on science, math, and the arts. Some mosques are works of art in and of themselves.

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;47198388]Unless it was peaceful and brought about advances in math, astronomy, and architecture, like the last Islamic Golden age did. Sure it was bad but you can't deny the extent of Arab influence on science, math, and the arts. Some mosques are works of art in and of themselves.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't really ascribe those advances to the religion itself. The only real connection is that the rulers of those countries happened to be Muslim (most of the common people had yet to convert).

Probably won't happen, it'd be nice but there's too many differences among the Arab leaders.

[QUOTE=Deng;47198487]I wouldn't really ascribe those advances to the religion itself. The only real connection is that the rulers of those countries happened to be Muslim (most of the common people had yet to convert).[/QUOTE] Because the values of searching for truth and meaning instead of getting drunk and being caught up in the world totally has nothing to do with the promotion of the arts and sciences.

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;47198388]Unless it was peaceful and brought about advances in math, astronomy, and architecture, like the last Islamic Golden age did. Sure it was bad but you can't deny the extent of Arab influence on science, math, and the arts. Some mosques are works of art in and of themselves.[/QUOTE] People love to make it sound like half of scientific discoveries were made thanks to Islam, just for the sake of being PC, though.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;47198529]Because the values of searching for truth and meaning instead of getting drunk and being caught up in the world totally has nothing to do with the promotion of the arts and sciences.[/QUOTE] I don't see where the connection to Islam is made however. If Islam had never arisen in the first place, those countries would have come up with these advances in Science and technology all the same at the same time and place. We don't ascribe Newtons discoveries to Christianity for instance.

[QUOTE=proch;47198562]People love to make it sound like half of scientific discoveries were made thanks to Islam, just for the sake of being PC, though.[/QUOTE] They weren't made thanks to Islam, but Islamic scholars had a part in their discoveries. If anything religion had more of an influence on Islamic art was the point I was getting across. [editline]23rd February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Deng;47198600]I don't see where the connection to Islam is made however. If Islam had never arisen in the first place, those countries would have come up with these advances in Science and technology all the same at the same time and place. We don't ascribe Newtons discoveries to Christianity for instance.[/QUOTE] You're missing the point. I didn't say Religion as a whole MADE these discoveries, but that people of this faith made these discoveries and they have their influences on modern society.

Israel isn't gonna like this.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;47198529]Because the values of searching for truth and meaning instead of getting drunk and being caught up in the world totally has nothing to do with the promotion of the arts and sciences.[/QUOTE] I bet you love Karen Armstrong.

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;47198619]You're missing the point. I didn't say Religion as a whole MADE these discoveries, but that people of this faith made these discoveries and they have their influences on modern society.[/QUOTE] They did, but it wouldn't be a good idea to return to that time still, considering how backwards, intolerant, and violent it was then compared to today.

[QUOTE=Deng;47198687]They did, but it wouldn't be a good idea to return to that time still, considering how backwards, intolerant, and violent it was then compared to today.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=purvisdavid1;47198388][b]Unless it was peaceful and brought about advances[/b] in math, astronomy, and architecture, like the last Islamic Golden age did. Sure it was bad but you can't deny the extent of Arab influence on science, math, and the arts. Some mosques are works of art in and of themselves.[/QUOTE] Again you miss the point because it's not like I don't understand this, I'm just stating the good things that did come from it. Things we still use to this day.

[QUOTE=proch;47198562]People love to make it sound like half of scientific discoveries were made thanks to Islam, just for the sake of being PC, though.[/QUOTE] And in truth, the "Islamic Golden Age" is a myth-- just like the "Dark Ages" for Europe. What was actually happening beginning in the 8th century was that Islamic leaders were going to war and acquiring most of their progress from people they either conquered or raided. Europe was a favorite-- the Iberian Peninsula, the Italian Peninsula, Greece and the Balkans. They took all kinds of shit from them. They even took thousands of Europeans as slaves in the process. About the only decent thing that came out of scholars from the Middle East during this time and the 10th century was an appreciation for Ancient Greek scientific and philosophical manuscripts and ensuring the preservation of ancient works by Aristotle and Plato after translating them from Syriac and Greek into Arabic. They made some genuinely original contributions to mathematics, star mapping, and geography as well (Avicenna of Persia certainly was a genius), but the amount they contributed to overall human progress and the extent of their scholarly achievements is radically overstated-- so much so what they experienced can hardly be called a golden age from an academic standpoint anymore than it can be attributed purely to Islam; militarily, the religion was doing quite well for itself during this time however.

[QUOTE=Govna;47198730]And in truth, the "Islamic Golden Age" is a myth-- just like the "Dark Ages" for Europe. What was actually happening beginning in the 8th century was that Islamic leaders were going to war and acquiring most of their progress from people they either conquered or raided. Europe was a favorite-- the Iberian Peninsula, the Italian Peninsula, Greece and the Balkans. They took all kinds of shit from them. They even took thousands of Europeans as slaves in the process. About the only decent thing that came out of scholars from the Middle East during this time and the 10th century was an appreciation for Ancient Greek scientific and philosophical manuscripts and ensuring the preservation of ancient works by Aristotle and Plato after translating them from Syriac and Greek into Arabic. They made some genuinely original contributions to mathematics, star mapping, and geography as well (Avicenna of Persia certainly was a genius), but the amount they contributed to overall human progress and the extent of their scholarly achievements is radically overstated-- so much so what they experienced can hardly be called a golden age from an academic standpoint anymore than it can be attributed purely to Islam; militarily, the religion was doing quite well for itself during this time however.[/QUOTE] [citation needed]

[QUOTE=Govna;47198730]And in truth, the "Islamic Golden Age" is a myth-- just like the "Dark Ages" for Europe. What was actually happening beginning in the 8th century was that Islamic leaders were going to war and acquiring most of their progress from people they either conquered or raided. Europe was a favorite-- the Iberian Peninsula, the Italian Peninsula, Greece and the Balkans. They took all kinds of shit from them. They even took thousands of Europeans as slaves in the process. About the only decent thing that came out of scholars from the Middle East during this time and the 10th century was an appreciation for Ancient Greek scientific and philosophical manuscripts and ensuring the preservation of ancient works by Aristotle and Plato after translating them from Syriac and Greek into Arabic. They made some genuinely original contributions to mathematics, star mapping, and geography as well (Avicenna of Persia certainly was a genius), but the amount they contributed to overall human progress and the extent of their scholarly achievements is radically overstated-- so much so what they experienced can hardly be called a golden age from an academic standpoint anymore than it can be attributed purely to Islam; militarily, the religion was doing quite well for itself during this time however.[/QUOTE] In many respects, the Islamic "golden age" was really just a continuation of what already existed in the Roman and Persian Empires. It didn't continue for very long, considering that centres of scientific thought and innovation generally shifted towards Europe as the Middle Ages came to an end. The Ottomans were the last great Muslim Empire, and they slowly ossified from within and stagnated.

[QUOTE=Deng;47198687]They did, but it wouldn't be a good idea to return to that time still, considering how backwards, intolerant, and violent it was then compared to today.[/QUOTE] To be fair, name a time in human history that wasn't violent and intolerant.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47198827]To be fair, name a time in human history that wasn't violent and intolerant.[/QUOTE] Today would be the best contender for that.

[QUOTE=Deng;47198851]Today would be the best contender for that.[/QUOTE] And yet ISIS is beheading people and burning people alive, today.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47198859]And yet ISIS is beheading people and burning people alive, today.[/QUOTE] Humans are still generally less violent and intolerant than prior to the 21st century.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47198859]And yet ISIS is beheading people and burning people alive, today.[/QUOTE] We aren't seeing population drops of up to 40% of entire countries these days, however. (see: 30 Years War) We aren't seeing the genocide of an entire ethnic community to a scale larger than that of the Holocaust (see: Carthage)

[QUOTE=Sokrates;47198793][citation needed][/QUOTE] Dark Ages never happened: [url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolingian_Renaissance[/url] [url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottonian_Renaissance[/url] [url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_of_the_12th_century[/url] Islamic conquests and invasions (including Europe): [url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests[/url] Islamic/Arabic preservation, translation, and inheritance of Ancient Greek ideas after invading the Byzantine lands: [url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Greek_Classics#Arab_translations_and_commentary[/url] Avicenna of Persia, an example of a genuinely original and intelligent Islamic scholar: [url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna[/url] My knowledge on this subject isn't infallible, but I do enjoy studying this stuff on my own because it is interesting, and I'm willing to bet I know more about it than you do. Start reading now please. [editline]23 February 2015[/editline] Europe didn't magically go stupid for centuries, the teachings of the Islamic religion had very little to do with what progress was made in the Middle East during this time, there was not really a scientific Islamic Golden Age-- it was militarily significant for them. That's the gist.

[QUOTE=Govna;47198923]Dark Ages never happened:[/QUOTE] I'm quite sure modern scholars simply cling to the name as a name. I use it from time to time to simply give people a point on the timeline of the world

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47198859]And yet ISIS is beheading people and burning people alive, today.[/QUOTE] yeah but its not happening in huge numbers. Its still violent today but less then in past.