FBI allowed to add GPS device to cars without warrants
149 replies, posted
[release]
[IMG]https://rt.com/files/usa/news/gps-device-court-judge-209/stringer-reuters.n.jpg[/IMG]
Reuters / Stringer
[B]TAGS:[/B] [URL="https://rt.com/tags/crime/"]Crime[/URL], [URL="https://rt.com/tags/law/"]Law[/URL], [URL="https://rt.com/tags/usa/"]USA[/URL]
The Supreme Court will soon weigh in on whether law enforcement agencies can monitor your every move without you knowing — and without a warrant. In Missouri, however, one judge isn’t waiting to find out their word.
US Magistrate Judge David Noce ruled last week in favor of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and determined that the FBI did not need a warrant in order to affix a GPS device to the car of a St. Louis man.
Fred Robinson, 69, was accused of collecting $175,000 in compensation while on the payroll of the St. Louis City Treasurer’s Office. Authorities alleged that Robinson held a position in name only and actually avoided going into the office. To prove this, law enforcement agents didn’t just ask around City Hall or dispatch a few officers to go speak with staffers. Instead, the FBI installed a GPS device on Robinson’s car without ever notifying him or asking permission.
The US Supreme Court will decide later this year if such action is allowable without obtaining a warrant. In the interim, Judge Noce says it is just fine.
In his ruling, Judge Noce cited an earlier call from the Eighth Circuit Court that determined, [I]“'when police have reasonable suspicion that a particular vehicle is transporting drugs, a warrant is not required when, while the vehicle is parked in a public place, they install a non-invasive GPS tracking device on it for a reasonable period of time.”[/I] In the case of Robinson, that is exactly what agents did.
Or so they claim.
Robinson’s attorneys insisted that their client’s First and Fourth Amendment rights were violated during the sting, but Judge Noce says that the installation of the tracker [I]“was not a search.”[/I] Since the GPS device was installed in a way that the officers insist was non-invasive and planted in plain view of public, placing the monitor on Robinson’s Chevy Cavalier was entirely by-the-books.
[I]“Because installation of the GPS tracker device was non-invasive and because the agents installed the device when the truck was parked in public, installation of the GPS tracker device was not a search,”[/I] rules Judge Noce. Specifically, says Noce, “[I]defendant Robinson did not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the exterior of his Cavalier. Agents installed the GPS tracker device onto defendant's Cavalier based on a reasonable suspicion that he was being illegally paid as a 'ghost' employee on the payroll of the St. Louis City Treasurer's Office.”[/I]
Even though the device was installed unbeknownst to the subject, the judge says that using magnets to affix the device to the automobile in lieu of screws made it legitimate. The installation and removal of the GPS tracker were both done in public, but during secret operations that Robinson was unaware of. Ergo, until the Supreme Court rules (and perhaps even after then), the FBI is fine to monitor anyone suspected of a crime, says Noce, as long as they don’t dent your Dodge Durgano in the process.
In Washington, the Supreme Court will consider a similar case later this year by discussing the matter of [I]United States v. Antoine Jones[/I]. As RT reported earlier, in that ordeal officers had installed a GPS device on Jones’ automobile while it was parked in a public lot outside of Washington DC —without ever obtaining a warrant. Jones was suspected of drug trafficking but cops never obtained permission to install the device. Although the records obtained by monitoring his movement helped lead officers to nearly 100 kilograms of cocaine and eventually a conviction of life in prison, a Washington appeals court reversed the decision in 2010. In response, the Obama administration asked the Supreme Court to decide in hopes of once again enforcing a conviction on Jones.
When the Obama administration petitioned for an appeal to that appeal, officials argued that “[I]GPS tracking is an important law enforcement tool,”[/I] and if not investigated fully, [I]“the issue will … continue to arise frequently.”[/I]
Justice Stephen Breyer previously predicted that should the Supreme Court walk away with okaying the installation of such devices, [I]“there is nothing to prevent the police or government from monitoring 24 hours a day the public movement of every citizen of the United States.”[/release]
[URL]https://rt.com/usa/news/gps-device-court-judge-209/[/URL][/I]
[quote]“Because installation of the GPS tracker device was non-invasive and because the agents installed the device when the truck was parked in public, installation of the GPS tracker device was not a search,” rules Judge Noce[/quote]
im glad we have such intelligent and reasonable judges deciding whether or not our cars can be bugged
isnt it funny how stuff you'd normally think is crazy paranoia bullshit is slowly becoming acceptable?
The inevitable dark side of our technological advances.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;34060044]im glad we have such intelligent and reasonable judges deciding whether or not our cars can be bugged
isnt it funny how stuff you'd normally think is crazy paranoia bullshit is slowly becoming acceptable?[/QUOTE]
I fail to see how the gps tracking of a suspect and physically following them have any difference, both are an invasion of privacy and "paranoia bullshit".
[editline]4th January 2012[/editline]
and like, I presume you think the latter is okay because what do you expect cops to do? Not their jobs?
Im okay with this as long as only the FBI can do it, not your run of the mill cops. Because it's not like the FBI are really going to abuse this "power". It just makes it less work for them to know where you are, which they would know anyway regardless since you're important enough that the FBI is investigating you.
[quote]...the judge says that using magnets to affix the device to the automobile in lieu of screws made it legitimate...[/quote]
I fail to see how the method of attaching it makes any difference.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;34060099]I fail to see how the method of attaching it makes any difference.[/QUOTE]
Screws require destruction of a surface in order to be...well...used
Magnets do not
What happens when the car is not longer on public property and visible?
I guess criminals need to buy one of these now
[img]http://img.dxcdn.com/productimages/sku_55871_1.jpg[/img]
Only $30 as well!
[url]http://www.dealextreme.com/p/qh-2-high-power-gps-l1-l2-signal-jammer-blocker-with-ac-car-charger-1217-1237-mhz-1565-1575-mhz-55871[/url]
you'd only really be scared of having your car bugged if you did illegal stuff though.
a normal person would have nothing to worry about.
however, it's not good that they can do this.
[QUOTE=coolsteve;34060222]you'd only really be scared of having your car bugged if you did illegal stuff though.
a normal person would have nothing to worry about.
however, it's not good that they can do this.[/QUOTE]
"if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" is a really weak argument
i can't say im comfortable with the fbi being allowed to just bug your car on a hunch
[QUOTE=l l;34060270]fuck, kopimi[/QUOTE]
got a problem nerd
[QUOTE=coolsteve;34060222]you'd only really be scared of having your car bugged if you did illegal stuff though.
a normal person would have nothing to worry about.[/QUOTE]
Terrible argument, they're still slowly removing people's rights.
[editline]5th January 2012[/editline]
fuck, kopimi
[editline]5th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kopimi;34060257]got a problem nerd[/QUOTE]
no :c
This is ridiculous.
And people say the US is a non fascist state, they bug phones and tract people without warrants! And they almost passed original NPAA and are close to SOPA.
Oh god. I was born in Iraq.
Welp
without a warrant? that's like saying i can follow someone around for an entire month, and they can't do shit about it.
Hoover would be proud.
[QUOTE=Region;34060533]Oh god. I was born in Iraq.
Welp[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure knowing where Iraq is on a map is enough to make you a suspect.
They can put anything they want on the license plate, because license plates are state property, in some states at least.
[QUOTE=Ale994145;34060435]And people say the US is a non fascist state, they bug phones and tract people without warrants! And they almost passed original NPAA and are close to SOPA.[/QUOTE]
It's far from fascist in it's current state, but the framework for authoritarian horse shit is being laid out. Worse yet is a lot of it isn't government control, it's corporations controlling things with "donations".
If I found a GPS device on my car I would attach it on some public transport vehicle :v:
I don't see why this is a problem by itself, if the FBI are bothered enough to use a tracker on you they would just follow you around anyway if they couldn't. I understand that it is a step towards a police state though and from what I hear they aren't too fun.
[editline]5th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Uncle Bourbon;34061775]If I found a GPS device on my car I would attach it on some public transport vehicle :v:[/QUOTE]
Would that count as theft since it is government property?
[QUOTE=squids_eye;34061813]I don't see why this is a problem by itself, if the FBI are bothered enough to use a tracker on you they would just follow you around anyway if they couldn't. I understand that it is a step towards a police state though and from what I hear they aren't too fun.
[editline]5th January 2012[/editline]
Would that count as theft since it is government property?[/QUOTE]
Best to put up a wall now rather than later.
You know whats funny? Anyone with a cell phone already IS bugged. This isn't really new to me.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;34062573]You know whats funny? Anyone with a cell phone already IS bugged. This isn't really new to me.[/QUOTE]
So would bugging your clothing not be new either if that were to be introduced somehow?
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;34062573]You know whats funny? Anyone with a cell phone already IS bugged. This isn't really new to me.[/QUOTE]
Lol guess the FBI can't get shit on me.
Well honestly, if you think about it. When the government owned all that stock in GM. Onstar is GPS... and the government was in control of onstar on every GM vehicle.
Except, honestly, what is the big deal about this? If they bug your car nothing will happen if you don't do anything illegal. And if you are doing illegal stuff, then you probably have a reason to be tracked and put in jail.
If they are going to take the time to bug your car and track you and use resources, I'm sure you did a little more than steal a candy bar from the local grocery store.
[QUOTE=Ale994145;34060435]And people say the US is a non fascist state, they bug phones and tract people without warrants! And they almost passed original NPAA and are close to SOPA.[/QUOTE]
Oh boy that's a real kicker considering the political system you support.
You would just prefer to have everyone starving while they are being spied on.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;34062609]turn off the gps
incognito[/QUOTE]
Cell Phone Tower Triangulation
Knock Knock FBI
[QUOTE=Kopimi;34060044]im glad we have such intelligent and reasonable judges deciding whether or not our cars can be bugged
isnt it funny how stuff you'd normally think is crazy paranoia bullshit is slowly becoming acceptable?[/QUOTE]
still it's likely that they won't bug your car, if that's what you are worrying about.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;34063258]still it's likely that they won't bug your car, if that's what you are worrying about.[/QUOTE]
i'm well aware of the astronomically low chance of my car being bugged, that doesn't make this any more right
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