GitHub tells user to remove the word "retarded" from his repo, the user proceeds to change it to "gi
137 replies, posted
[t]https://i.imgur.com/QC51FZz.png[/t]
[url]https://github.com/nixxquality/WebMConverter/commit/c1ac0baac06fa7175677a4a1bf65860a84708d67[/url]
[url]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9966118[/url]
It's old news, but since we had news about sourceforge's fuckups we might as well have github's too.
[QUOTE=eirexe;48358042][t]https://i.imgur.com/QC51FZz.png[/t]
[url]https://github.com/nixxquality/WebMConverter/commit/c1ac0baac06fa7175677a4a1bf65860a84708d67[/url]
[url]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9966118[/url]
It's old news, but since we had news about sourceforge's fuckups we might as well have github's too.[/QUOTE]
How is this a fuck up?
wow he sure showed them
I fucked up too, that's not the original repo
[url]https://github.com/WebMBro/WebMConverter[/url]
[QUOTE=James xX;48358055]How is this a fuck up?[/QUOTE]
Some feel that these companies ought to focus on offering a service, and are being too heavy-handed with policing how their users employ that service.
Honestly I feel that the word "retard" is the victim of language evolution, yeah the context is originally derogatory, but by default it isn't anymore unless you're super over sensitive. Years ago maybe it would be okay to say "don't use the word retard here" because at that time "retard" was actually the commonly used word for someone with a mental deficiency (even in some professional, polite and public settings at one point in time), but it isn't anymore for obvious reason. Maybe if github has a policy against words that you wouldn't use in polite company such as fuck, shit, crap, damn, etc.. But by the commonly used definition of the word retard, it isn't a derogatory term for mental handicap so much anymore. Though that said I wouldn't use it in a public, professional or polite setting, same reason I wouldn't just scream out "fuck, shit, ass, crap." or shit like that. Context is important after all.
It's sort of like how "fag" was used as a derogatory term for gay people but then it just sort of lost meaning in that context to most people and became a general swear word from the context I've seen. I don't honestly think I've ever met someone use the term "fag" for its original derogatory purpose, though obviously it has been somewhere because that's what the word fag became at some point to begin with. Even all my gay friends call people "fags" for being stupid or shit at times. It's just language evolution, though I do see why some people would and do get offended by it.
At least they didn't push the morality code file on them.
[QUOTE=draugur;48358146]Honestly I feel that the word retard is the victim of language evolution, yeah the context is originally derogatory, but by default it isn't anymore unless you're super over sensitive. Years ago maybe it would be okay to say "don't use the word retard here" because at that time retard was actually the commonly used word for someone with a mental deficiency, but it isn't anymore for obvious reason. Maybe if github has a policy against words that you wouldn't use in polite company such as fuck, shit, crap, damn, etc.. But by the commonly used definition of the word retard, it isn't a derogatory term for mental handicap so much anymore. Though that said I wouldn't use it in a public, professional or polite setting, same reason I wouldn't just scream out "fuck, shit, ass, crap." or shit like that. Context is important after all.
It's sort of like how "fag" was used as a derogatory term for gay people but then it just sort of lost meaning in that context to most people and became a general swear word from the context I've seen. I don't honestly think I've ever met someone use the term "fag" for its original derogatory purpose, though obviously it has been somewhere because that's what the word fag became at some point to begin with.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but at the same time, you're not gay or disabled (I assume, please tell me if I'm wrong) so you don't really get to decide that gay or disabled people should just not be offended because the word is a 'victim of language evolution'. Even if you were you don't get to speak for everyone about whether they should be offended
I mean yeah sure, maybe everyone you've spoken to has used those words without the context involved but I can guarantee they're still the number one words people use to discriminate against homosexuals or mentally disabled people when they're just fuckin walking down the street so hearing those words is ultimately gonna bring a lot of bad memories up
[QUOTE=draugur;48358146]Honestly I feel that the word "retard" is the victim of language evolution, yeah the context is originally derogatory, but by default it isn't anymore unless you're super over sensitive. Years ago maybe it would be okay to say "don't use the word retard here" because at that time "retard" was actually the commonly used word for someone with a mental deficiency (even in some professional, polite and public settings at one point in time), but it isn't anymore for obvious reason. Maybe if github has a policy against words that you wouldn't use in polite company such as fuck, shit, crap, damn, etc.. But by the commonly used definition of the word retard, it isn't a derogatory term for mental handicap so much anymore. Though that said I wouldn't use it in a public, professional or polite setting, same reason I wouldn't just scream out "fuck, shit, ass, crap." or shit like that. Context is important after all.
It's sort of like how "fag" was used as a derogatory term for gay people but then it just sort of lost meaning in that context to most people and became a general swear word from the context I've seen. I don't honestly think I've ever met someone use the term "fag" for its original derogatory purpose, though obviously it has been somewhere because that's what the word fag became at some point to begin with. Even all my gay friends call people "fags" for being stupid or shit at times. It's just language evolution, though I do see why some people would and do get offended by it.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure some branches still got by Board of MRDD though. It's been a very recent thing to phase out.
they also took down all the forks of this project because the original had such *horrible offensive language*. Github has been taking down projects they dont like on whims of their developers for awhile now.
Yeah dont use github.
The community around Github seems to have "drank the kool-aid" for lack of a better phrase in recent years.
I mean I get the reasoning for policing in such a way, but the power should ultimately lie with the creators and not the hosting service, unless the content itself is malicious in its creation.
Though honestly, I already moved to Bitbucket for my repo needs. It's just generally better for smaller teams, in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Rahu X;48358233]The community around Github seems to have "drank the kool-aid" for lack of a better phrase in recent years.
I mean I get the reasoning for policing in such a way, but the power should ultimately lie with the creators and not the hosting service, unless the content itself is malicious in its creation.
Though honestly, I already moved to Bitbucket for my repo needs. It's just generally better for smaller teams, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I also like GitLab a lot, I don't care about the stupid timeline feature (the colored boxes which show how many edits you did per day, blah, means nothing to me) but being able to make private repos for free is such a big deal to me, GitHub always felt a bit like a rip off when services like Bitbucket and such already did the same for free and better.
[QUOTE=Scratch.;48358190]woah
[img]http://link-removed.xyz/i/2015/08/15-08-03_08-54-49.png[/img][/QUOTE]
Next time someone says social justice extremism doesn't exist, I'm going to send this screenshot along with the article.
One more reason to use Bitbucket for your projects.
[QUOTE=killerteacup;48358188]Yeah but at the same time, you're not gay or disabled (I assume, please tell me if I'm wrong) so you don't really get to decide that gay or disabled people should just not be offended because the word is a 'victim of language evolution'. Even if you were you don't get to speak for everyone about whether they should be offended
I mean yeah sure, maybe everyone you've spoken to has used those words without the context involved but I can guarantee they're still the number one words people use to discriminate against homosexuals or mentally disabled people when they're just fuckin walking down the street so hearing those words is ultimately gonna bring a lot of bad memories up[/QUOTE]
This is true, I am not gay or mentally handicapped in such a way. I never said I agree with saying these words in the common context, and I don't because I have plenty of other words that mean what I want to say without controversial context (I'll explain). Is it a problem with society or a problem with language though is the question here. I think society is the one to blame. The word gay is used as a derogatory term as well, yet it's not offensive when used in proper context but who gets to determine that? It's not Github's place to enforce polite wording practices on people. It's pointless and causes immature people like the guy in the article to do stupid shit like this.
Should people be going out in public saying "fucking retard niggerfaggots, blahblah!" No, of course not. And anyone that does will be properly shamed by the public. If we want to stop people from using the word "retard", you have to give them social consequences. Banning the use of a word isn't a social consequence, just look at internet forums or servers on games that ban swearing. People still do it, people type or say "fudge" instead of fuck, [I]it's the exact same meaning[/I], you mean't to say fuck, the context is the word fuck, just because you said it differently doesn't mean shit. We're punishing the wrong thing. We're punishing language usage, not social intolerance. This is why I don't say "gay" or "retard" when I mean something is shit, crap, dumb, lame, stupid. Etc. (Though when you think about it, the word lame is just as offensive to "lame" people as "retard" could be, but social context says otherwise probably due to time so okay I guess?) If I mean something is fucking shit, I'm not going to call it gay, fudging stupid, etc.. I mean fucking shit, we all know I mean fucking shit, If I wanted to be polite or professional I'd word my statement completely differently instead like, "It needs improvement.".
Edit: before replying to this post I clarified a bit more below in my next two posts and would like to avoid a hundred of similar replies as I am of course on the first page of this thread and those get replied to later quite a bit.
Short version for those that don't want to read more: I don't disagree with what went on and I am not defending the use of the word "retard" I am questioning how effective the action is in general.
[QUOTE=Velocet;48358257]Next time someone says social justice extremism doesn't exist, I'm going to send this screenshot along with the article.
One more reason to use Bitbucket for your projects.[/QUOTE]
isn't that satire?
[QUOTE=Velocet;48358257]Next time someone says social justice extremism doesn't exist, I'm going to send this screenshot along with the article.
One more reason to use Bitbucket for your projects.[/QUOTE]
i'm pretty sure that dude was trying to prove a point
[QUOTE=eirexe;48358261]isn't that satire?[/QUOTE]
Honestly, it's a 50/50 chance of it is/isn't.
[QUOTE=Levelog;48358208]I'm pretty sure some branches still got by Board of MRDD though. It's been a very recent thing to phase out.[/QUOTE]
Fair point.
[QUOTE=eirexe;48358261]isn't that satire?[/QUOTE]
I honestly can't even tell anymore. I thought Fem. Freq. was satire up until a month or so ago when an entire thread here informed me it wasn't. It was almost like being a little kid and having someone tell you Santa isn't real. Like, I had laughed at so many of those posts thinking they were just ironic satire about what redpill assholes think feminists are and then I learned it was actually a legit member of the extreme "SJW" minority/boogeyman. I was sort of sad but then I remembered it was still funny even without the satire context, sort of like how Christmas is still good without the fat man breaking and entering through your fireplace to give you stuff. Just takes away a bit of that innocent magic is all.
[QUOTE=eirexe;48358261]isn't that satire?[/QUOTE]
You really never know these days...
Besides, all it takes is for someone stupid to take such satire seriously and fuck things over.
Not saying that sort of shit would happen to GIMP though, as it's been quite well known for years and has had plenty of jokes and "controversy" lauded its way because of the name. And if it did, they could just host it somewhere else like how they moved to Github when Sourceforge REALLY went to shit.
[QUOTE=draugur;48358258]And anyone that does will be properly shamed by the public. If we want to stop people from using the word "retard", you have to give them social consequences. Banning the use of a word isn't a social consequence, just look at internet forums or servers on games that ban swearing.[/QUOTE]
Calling the banning of harsh language not 'social consequences' seems kinda like special pleading to me. It's not abnormal for a public business IRL to kick people out for using unacceptable language and allow people who convey the same meaning through more acceptable language.
If you want to use their site you have to talk nice. If you don't talk nice you get the boot. That sounds like social consequences to me. Whether it's justified or overboard in this context is up to you, but I think it's really reaching to call it categorically wrong.
[QUOTE=catbarf;48358318]Calling the banning of harsh language not 'social consequences' seems kinda like special pleading to me. It's not abnormal for a public business IRL to kick people out for using unacceptable language and allow people who convey the same meaning through more acceptable language.
If you want to use their site you have to talk nice. If you don't talk nice you get the boot. That sounds like social consequences to me. Whether it's justified or overboard in this context is up to you, but I think it's really reaching to call it categorically wrong.[/QUOTE]
Yeah except people just find a new term to use for that thing to beat the censor. Like I said it's a very short term consequence that doesn't really help anyone. Today the word "retard" may be the derogatory word of choice (like fag is for example) but tomorrow it might be "stagnant pond" or something. It's attacking the wrong aspect of the problem. YES, calling people "retard" isn't cool, but the problem isn't that people are using this word, the problem is the context of the word, the group being discriminated against through its use. People have already started using challenged, special, and handicapped in a derogatory way in place of "retard". These words were at one point the "polite and proper" way to refer to the mentally deficient/handicapped. When do we start banning the use of those words?
The problem isn't people using a word, the problem is society's view of the mentally deficient/handicapped. There is nothing wrong with being mentally deficient/handicapped, but because people think there is, it becomes a derogatory condition. Same with being gay and at one time, being black, etc..
It's social change we need, not censorship. You can tell someone they can't say racist things here, but people are still going to think them or say them somewhere else. What changed between the old generations and the new ones in how we view black people or gay people? It wasn't the words used to describe them, older people will say racist things about "black people", "African Americans", "Negros", "Niggers" etc.. It's the social view that changed. We see them as equals, and not because of a label. Did the label change help? Maybe for some, but as a whole it was definitely the less effective form of making a social change.
It's github's service and they are free to police it how they want (again I should make it clear I don't disagree with their actions, just on the effectual nature of them.), but people are just going to walk around the censors is all I'm saying. If people want to be disgusting and derogatory, they will be. They'll just find a way to do it that isn't using your specifically banned words. You win this war by changing society's view on the group being used as an insulting label. "retard" has a long history of being derogatory like "nigger" and yes it shouldn't be used anymore outside of referencing to its usage (and thus not actually "using" it.), but telling people not to use the word "nigger" didn't end racism. A proper way to do it would be to do away with specific bans, just have your rule be the more polite form of "don't be a massive derogatory and intolerant dickbag." And put common sense in charge. Here on FP the word "nigger" isn't going to get me banned for using it in this context because I'm not being a derogatory and intolerant dickbag with it nor am I using it as a label for anyone, but I would get banned for racism for saying something like, "kill all those lazy black people." And many people have been banned for it before for obvious reason. It's the social consequence for the act, not the word.
The problem was the author of that repository was being derogatory toward mentally deficient/handicapped people, not just the use of the word "retard" and I believe github should have been much more detailed in their verdict. Similarly to how the mods here ban for the act in context, not just specific ban words. We had autoban words here before and we all know how that went. Had they done that, the repository author would have rather large consequences for pulling this shit. Instead all he did was side step the issue, learn nothing and give everyone the middle finger while giving more ammunition to the "POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE WILD! HUGBOX!" crowd.
[QUOTE=eirexe;48358042]It's old news, but since we had news about sourceforge's fuckups we might as well have github's too.[/QUOTE]
Can we [b]please[/b] not compare language enforcement to stealing innocent and popular projects and wrapping them in malware?
SourceForge has caused a shitload of damage to millions of users. GitHub is just using an outdated definition of a word. Do you really think that's comparable?
[QUOTE=Velocet;48358257]Next time someone says social justice extremism doesn't exist, I'm going to send this screenshot along with the article.
One more reason to use Bitbucket for your projects.[/QUOTE]
Yeah bro an obvious joke is evidence of SJW extremism. Got 'em.
But GIMP should change its name IMO. It's a classic example of terrible FLOSS marketing.
[QUOTE=lavacano;48358423]Can we [b]please[/b] not compare language enforcement to stealing innocent and popular projects and wrapping them in malware?
SourceForge has caused a shitload of damage to millions of users. GitHub is just using an outdated definition of a word. Do you really think that's comparable?[/QUOTE]
I never said they are as bad, they are both fuckups.
[QUOTE=CapellanCitizen;48358424]Yeah bro an obvious joke is evidence of SJW extremism. Got 'em.
But GIMP should change its name IMO. It's a classic example of terrible FLOSS marketing.[/QUOTE]
I'm not even sure GIMP did that on purpose (it stands for "GNU Image Manipulation Program", which is a pretty unimaginative name). And even if they did, I think they would have meant BDSM gimp, not "I have only one leg" gimp.
[QUOTE=lavacano;48358437]I'm not even sure GIMP did that on purpose (it stands for "GNU Image Manipulation Program", which is a pretty unimaginative name). And even if they did, I think they would have meant BDSM gimp, not "I have only one leg" gimp.[/QUOTE]
The beautiful thing about "old school" free software programmers is that they were big on jokes and humor in the early days. There's a lot of free software made that has funny but "inappropriate" names.
[URL="http://www.linuxnov.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Screenshot-36.png"]And if this official splash screen is any indication[/URL], they don't mean GIMP in the sense of being physically disabled. And yes, that is an official splash screen that was used in 2.7.x.
[QUOTE=eirexe;48358261]isn't that satire?[/QUOTE]
Yes it is, but you have to have no ability to detect that to be able to think that "social justice extremism" is anything but a boogeyman.
[editline]2nd August 2015[/editline]
Also, as always: context matters, the exact portions github requested a change of were "WebM for Retards" and "don't run ffmpeg.exe you retard", so it's fairly obvious that it was being used in a derogatory fashion.
[QUOTE=Scratch.;48358190]woah
[img]http://link-removed.xyz/i/2015/08/15-08-03_08-54-49.png[/img][/QUOTE]
I have actually seen people complain about GIMP's name a few times.
And as always, the irony here is who is actually having panic attacks over this.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.