Red cross didn't classify the Ukraine conflict as an international war: no signs of war with another - Polidicks

[i]My apologies for google translate.[/i] [quote] Red Cross did not find signs of the war in Ukraine with another State[/quote] [quote] Head of the Committee in an interview with "Forbes Ukraine " qualified crisis in the Donbas as " non-international armed conflict ." The International Committee of the Red Cross ( ICRC) has assessed the situation in Ukraine as a non-international armed conflict . In an interview with Ukrainian Forbes said the head of the ICRC delegation in Ukraine Michel Masson . The Red Cross stress that work in Ukraine will be a long time , given the situation in the East. " From our experience we know that when there are such events as those that occur in the Donbas , their echoes can be heard for a long time . In Yugoslavia , 20 years after the end of the conflict , the Red Cross still has a job ... " - said Michel Masson . Note that it is the ICRC has the right to classify military conflicts , determining their category. [/quote] Strangely a pro-Ukrainian news agency reports this. [url]http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/politics/3430085-krasnyi-krest-ne-nashel-v-ukrayne-pryznakov-voiny-s-druhym-hosudarstvom[/url]

Except for the russian troops and vehicles. And artillery fire. But yeah, no other country involved.

It wasn't a war; clearly it was just a liberation.

[QUOTE=Miskav;46206165]Except for the russian troops and vehicles. And artillery fire. But yeah, no other country involved.[/QUOTE] Apparently neither red cross or OSCE found any russian troops or vehicles.

And what would they classify as Russian? I'd say it's a given that there were preparations made just to not give them what they need to officially confirm Russian presence.

[QUOTE=proch;46206413]And what would they classify as Russian? I'd say it's a given that there were preparations made just to not give them what they need to officially confirm Russian presence.[/QUOTE] Red Cross is basically saying that there were no signs of another state directly taking part in the fun. Either russkies are carefully hidden (which means russkies can somehow hide artillery from satelites) or russkies didn't directly take part in the proxy war.

[QUOTE=Miskav;46206165]Except for the russian troops and vehicles. And artillery fire. But yeah, no other country involved.[/QUOTE] They're just there by accident, they have nothing to do with it. They took a wrong turn at Albuquerque.

There is no actual proof that Russia is in Ukraine, OSCE can confirm this. People just don't know what the fuck is happening right now and are jumping to conclusions based on astute amounts of bullshit spread by false news sites. Ukraine is not at war with another state, it's at war with itself. Donetsk and Luhansk are getting annihilated by the shitty government that rules Ukraine as of now, do people not understand how shit the government there is?

It's always easier to blame someone else, than admit that you fucked up.

wondering about those dead russian troops secretly returning home, unless they were proven fake. not saying they were in ukraine but that is still suspicious

Just saying the Tanks, APC's and such seen crossing the border by numerous sources, already posted on here, did kind of prove something. So did mysterious dead Russian soldiers, little green men wearing the newest Russian uniforms, using standard issue Russian equipment no other nation uses. Also the T-72's seen operating in Ukraine that Ukraine never used, nor the T-64's Russia tried to claim were Ukrainian, despite the fact they looked nothing alike. Also the fact the rebels themselves claimed to have received outside help, and in one week went from the brink of losing, to whipping Ukraine's ass. Nope, Russia, who has a history of similar shit, did nothing wrong.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;46207291]wondering about those dead russian troops secretly returning home, unless they were proven fake. not saying they were in ukraine but that is still suspicious[/QUOTE] I've heard of things saying that they were volunteers from the army, who went for their own reasons. But I could be wrong. [editline]11th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Pilot1215;46207306]Just saying the Tanks, APC's and such seen crossing the border by numerous sources, already posted on here, did kind of prove something. So did mysterious dead Russian soldiers, little green men wearing the newest Russian uniforms, using standard issue Russian equipment no other nation uses. Also the T-72's seen operating in Ukraine that Ukraine never used, nor the T-64's Russia tried to claim were Ukrainian, despite the fact they looked nothing alike. Also the fact the rebels themselves claimed to have received outside help, and in one week went from the brink of losing, to whipping Ukraine's ass. Nope, Russia, who has a history of similar shit, did nothing wrong.[/QUOTE] If you have the evidence, I'll believe you right now.

[QUOTE=GentlemanLexi;46207310]I've heard of things saying that they were volunteers from the army, who went for their own reasons. But I could be wrong. [editline]11th October 2014[/editline] If you have the evidence, I'll believe you right now.[/QUOTE] i guess i feel like if they were volunteers then the military wouldn't be trying to hide it

I'll be beyond shocked when the smoke clears if they aren't involved. I know a hardcore guy that was talking to me about this. Basically he use to train rebels to fuck with the USSR back in the cold war days and this is like a text book example of how they would operate and cause confusion and doubt and maintain plausible denability.

[QUOTE=GentlemanLexi;46207310]I've heard of things saying that they were volunteers from the army, who went for their own reasons.[/QUOTE] Yes, just like the millions of Chinese fighters in the Korean War were "volunteers". I don't doubt that eastern Ukrainians did the bulk of the fighting, but it was clear to anyone who cared to look that they were getting help from other sources.

Well, they are the [B]Red[/B] Cross.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;46207576]Yes, just like the millions of Chinese fighters in the Korean War were "volunteers". I don't doubt that eastern Ukrainians did the bulk of the fighting, but it was clear to anyone who cared to look that they were getting help from other sources.[/QUOTE] well somebody volunteered them

Bureaucracy at it's finest.

[QUOTE=Miskav;46206165]Except for the russian troops and vehicles. And artillery fire. But yeah, no other country involved.[/QUOTE] gib pruf plz [QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46206353]Apparently neither red cross or OSCE found any russian troops or vehicles.[/QUOTE]

I doubt so, as a rebel army using mainly stolen equipment from the Ukrainian Army at the start of the conflict, its really hard for them to sustain with all that equipment. How else are they still able to keep up its armour and APCs? Even if they did use those stolen ukrainian army ones, it'll eventually run out.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46206432]Either russkies are carefully hidden (which means russkies can somehow hide artillery from satelites) or russkies didn't directly take part in the proxy war.[/QUOTE] [url=http://aco.nato.int/new-satellite-imagery-exposes-russian-combat-troops-inside-ukraine.aspx]Except they can't hide their artillery from our satellites and were detected by them back in [I]August[/I].[/url] There's this fact, then there's that one Russian guy on Instagram who gave his position inside Ukraine away, those modernized T72s that have been caught operating there which Ukraine has never had access to and could not have been captured by the rebels, all the dead soldiers mysteriously returning home to Russia, and even Matviyenko has admitted they're fighting there. Incidentally, the original Forbes source which this interview with Michel Masson was taken from mentions nothing about the Red Cross claiming there's no signs of Russian troops or equipment in the country. Actually, the interview deals with what exactly the Red Cross has been doing in the Ukraine and the history behind its involvement. Nowhere did he claim that there were "no signs of foreign involvement", just that the fight between the Ukrainian military and the Donbas rebels constitutes a "non-international armed conflict", a civil war type situation like what's been happening in Libya and Syria (and he directly cites both these in his interview). [url=forbes.ua/nation/1380443-glava-delegacii-krasnogo-kresta-v-ukraine-my-ocenivaem-situaciyu-na-donbasse-kak-nemezhdunarodnyj-voo]You can read his whole interview with them here.[/url] But it's adorable that you're trying to twist his statements around to look innocent and maintain that plausible deniability facade you've been putting up for months now. If there's one thing we can learn from this conflict, it's that Russians really are some of the stupidest, sneakiest sons of bitches alive.

Guys this has always, and will always be considered a Civil war unless the Russians (Stupidly, meaning they won't) actually declare war on Ukraine. The Confederacy received help from Great Britain in the US Civil war and we still consider it a civil war. Now arguably this might be different because the Confederacy never actually received troop support from GB (although then again we don't really know if the separatists actually received troop support from Russia), but they were still being supplied by GB until the Union cut them off.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;46207353]i guess i feel like if they were volunteers then the military wouldn't be trying to hide it[/QUOTE] The military is not hiding the volonteurs. It never tired. (Even though the border was recently closed for volonteurs and some french guys that wanted to fight for DNR didn't get throught) [editline]12th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Govna;46208628][url=http://aco.nato.int/new-satellite-imagery-exposes-russian-combat-troops-inside-ukraine.aspx]Except they can't hide their artillery from our satellites and were detected by them back in [I]August[/I].[/url] There's this fact, then there's that one Russian guy on Instagram who gave his position inside Ukraine away, those modernized T72s that have been caught operating there which Ukraine has never had access to and could not have been captured by the rebels, all the dead soldiers mysteriously returning home to Russia, and even Matviyenko has admitted they're fighting there. Incidentally, the original Forbes source which this interview with Michel Masson was taken from mentions nothing about the Red Cross claiming there's no signs of Russian troops or equipment in the country. Actually, the interview deals with what exactly the Red Cross has been doing in the Ukraine and the history behind its involvement. Nowhere did he claim that there were "no signs of foreign involvement", just that the fight between the Ukrainian military and the Donbas rebels constitutes a "non-international armed conflict", a civil war type situation like what's been happening in Libya and Syria (and he directly cites both these in his interview). [url=forbes.ua/nation/1380443-glava-delegacii-krasnogo-kresta-v-ukraine-my-ocenivaem-situaciyu-na-donbasse-kak-nemezhdunarodnyj-voo]You can read his whole interview with them here.[/url] But it's adorable that you're trying to twist his statements around to look innocent and maintain that plausible deniability facade you've been putting up for months now. If there's one thing we can learn from this conflict, it's that Russians really are some of the stupidest, sneakiest sons of bitches alive.[/QUOTE] May be adorable to you, but I just copy pasted the article. The headline is taken from there too. Correct me if I am wrong.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46209191]The military is not hiding the volonteurs. It never tired. (Even though the border was recently closed for volonteurs and some french guys that wanted to fight for DNR didn't get throught) [editline]12th October 2014[/editline] May be adorable to you, but I just copy pasted the article. The headline is taken from there too. Correct me if I am wrong.[/QUOTE] I like how you don't acknowledge the point about the artillery :wink:. Though I'm sure your reply to this will be something about photoshop and doctored evidence.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;46209405]I like how you don't acknowledge the point about the artillery :wink:. Though I'm sure your reply to this will be something about photoshop and doctored evidence.[/QUOTE] I have no intention to argue about things I have argued about for over 3 times already. I am responding to an accusation of twisting something to my advantage.

From the translation I understand they are talking about the specific region around those towns, but still, how is the whole Crimea thing completely ignored now? It really feels like everyone just moved on. It really just kind of bothers me.

Well they probably have a lot of [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/red-cross-to-review-shares-in-arms-firm-1280822.html]shares in arms[/url], war is good. It's profitable!

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46209439]I have no intention to argue about things I have argued about for over 3 times already. I am responding to an accusation of twisting something to my advantage.[/QUOTE] It's just funny how you don't respond to what actually matters in the post.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46209439]I have no intention to argue about things I have argued about for over 3 times already. I am responding to an accusation of twisting something to my advantage.[/QUOTE] Because you can't. You, me, and every other person here who isn't just another shill knows that you don't believe that Russia has had any participation in this conflict (excuse me, "direct" participation, whatever te fuck that's supposed to mean) from the beginning. We get that you don't want to accept the mountain of evidence proving otherwise, that not only have they been indirectly contributing with supplies, but directly contributing with volumes of men, equipment, and weapons-- always in favor of the rebels. That's why you posted this thread, and that's why you posted your false dilemma which I originally called out and which you have made no effort to address: [QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46206432]Red Cross is basically saying that there were no signs of another state directly taking part in the fun. Either russkies are carefully hidden (which means russkies can somehow hide artillery from satelites) or russkies didn't directly take part in the proxy war.[/QUOTE] [editline]11th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Jitterz;46209535]From the translation I understand they are talking about the specific region around those towns, but still, how is the whole Crimea thing completely ignored now? It really feels like everyone just moved on. It really just kind of bothers me.[/QUOTE] Everyone moved on/forgot is my guess. Either because they wanted to, or because their busy with their own things and have no long-term memory. How many people talk about MH17 anymore? Some, but not many. I think acceptance is a big part of it too. Russia seized Crimea, and it's not giving it up now. We have to face that fact. What's done is done, unfortunately.

[QUOTE=Govna;46209974] We have to face that fact. What's done is done, unfortunately.[/QUOTE] Well please do so already.