Uganda says will keep anti-gay law despite West cutting aid - Polidicks

[QUOTE]The West has cut off millions of dollars in aid to Uganda after the country introduced harsh new penalties for homosexuality. Uganda has said it can do without the aid and it will show “the world does not owe them a living.” Uganda has faced a barrage of criticism for a new law that imposes tough penalties for homosexuality. Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni signed a bill into law Monday that introduces life sentences for gay sex and same-sex marriage and criminalizes “homosexual propaganda.” The western world reacted sharply to the new law with US State Secretary John Kerry condemning it as “morally wrong” and compared it to the crackdown on Jews in Germany in the 1930s. Three European countries have already taken measures to cut millions of dollars of aid going to the Ugandan government. The Netherlands has said it is stopping all aid going to the Ugandan government, but will continue to support non-governmental groups. Norway and Denmark took similar action, slashing annual payments of around $16 million. Following suit, the World Bank stalled a $90 million loan that was going to help the Ugandan health system. A spokesperson for the World Bank said the payment had been halted to ensure “development objectives would not be adversely affected by the enactment of this new law.” Despite Uganda depending on foreign aid for 20 percent of its state budget, the government has shrugged off the aid cuts. Government spokesman Ofwono Opondo described the aid payments as “a trap for decadence” and said their removal would actually have a positive effect. “The West can keep their ‘aid’ to Uganda over homos, we shall still develop without it,” he said in a message on Twitter. [QUOTE]Uganda govt can't force the West to give it their money, & they shouldn't force homosexuality on Uganda either [URL="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23AntiGayLaw&src=hash"]#AntiGayLaw[/URL] — Ofwono Opondo (@OfwonoOpondo) [URL="https://twitter.com/OfwonoOpondo/statuses/439366215807795200"]February 28, 2014[/URL][/QUOTE] LGBT rights groups have warned that the new law will have disastrous effects on the fight against HIV in Uganda. Unicef said that in 2012 over 7 percent of the Ugandan, adult population were infected with HIV. However, the Ugandan government has assured its people that gays will have the same access to health facilities under the new law. "All people, whether they’re sexual orientation [is] gay or otherwise, are at complete liberty to get full treatment and to give full disclosure to their doctors and nurses," Ugandan health minister Ruhakana Rugunda told the BBC. Uganda has defended the measure in the face of western condemnation, hailing it as a show of their independence from the West’s “pressures and provocation.” “Outsiders cannot dictate to us, this is our country,” said President Museveni. “I advise friends from the West not to make this an issue, because if they make it an issue the more they will lose.” The new bill is popular amongst many people in Uganda, where conservative Christian values are widespread. David Kato, who was considered to be a pioneer of the Ugandan gay rights movement, was bludgeoned to death in his own home in 2011 after a magazine published photos of him, identifying him as gay and calling for him to be killed. [IMG]http://rt.com/files/news/22/fe/10/00/555uganda-gay-law-sanctions.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] [URL="http://rt.com/news/uganda-gay-law-sanctions-329/"]http://rt.com/news/uganda-gay-law-sanctions-329/[/URL]

Sickening.

I never understood cutting aid, that would imply that their government cares whether their people starve or not. They are gonna eat just fine and sleep in fluffy beds no matter how much aid we cut from the people who actually need it.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44088574]I never understood cutting aid, that would imply that their government cares whether their people starve or not. They are gonna eat just fine and sleep in fluffy beds no matter how much aid we cut from the people who actually need it.[/QUOTE] i get what you mean, but to be fair, when it comes to these shithole countries, most the aid is just stolen by their govts. anyway

I can't and probably will never understand homophobia.

They'd rather starve, and have preventable diseases prevalent in their society, than let two people love each other.. Religion, it's a pretty fucking powerful & wicked thing.

Meh, fuck 'em. If they want to be bigoted to the point of prosecution, then better they not feed off my tax dollars. The unfortunate side is that innocent people that were not proponents of the bill will suffer.

I feel really bad for any homosexual living in Uganda that have to hide them self from the government. Imagine if you risked life time jail for being yourself, it's terrifying.

The worst part is, Uganda didn't just magically become Christian. Guess who's fault that is? The people who are now removing aid!

[QUOTE=luverofJ!93;44088748]The worst part is, Uganda didn't just magically become Christian. Guess who's fault that is? The people who are now removing aid![/QUOTE] I don't think Christianity is necessarily the root cause - historically homophobia has been pretty prevalent, otherwise Christianity or whatever other religions mention wouldn't mention it. I think this is more about the Ugandan president showing that he's a "strong leader" than anything else - many people in Uganda agree with it, and as such he can "stand up" to the Western leaders while having full backing on the homefront.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;44088943]I don't think Christianity is necessarily the root cause - historically homophobia has been pretty prevalent, otherwise Christianity or whatever other religions mention wouldn't mention it. I think this is more about the Ugandan president showing that he's a "strong leader" than anything else - many people in Uganda agree with it, and as such he can "stand up" to the Western leaders while having full backing on the homefront.[/QUOTE] that's not true. historically homosexuality has been quite common within many cultures all over the world, it wasn't until the advent of abrahamic religions that same sex relationships started carrying so much social stigma. and the situation in countries like uganda can be directly linked to western missionaries pressing these beliefs and supporting/lobbying for these laws

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;44088967]that's not true. historically homosexuality has been quite common within many cultures all over the world, it wasn't until the advent of abrahamic religions that same sex relationships started carrying so much social stigma. and the situation in countries like uganda can be directly linked to western missionaries pressing these beliefs and supporting/lobbying for these laws[/QUOTE] Sure, religious lobbies and missionaries might be the cause, but I'd say homophobia is rather justified by religion than caused by it. The New Testament doesn't say much about homosexuality, and you don't magically become homophobic just because you become a Christian.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;44089161]Sure, religious lobbies and missionaries might be the cause, but I'd say homophobia is rather justified by religion than caused by it. The New Testament doesn't say much about homosexuality, and you don't magically become homophobic just because you become a Christian.[/QUOTE] That's why pastors change the 'christian message' to suit their needs, whatever gets you more followers, and more money.

[QUOTE=Steve Stump;44088583]I can't and probably will never understand homophobia.[/QUOTE] Generally people just think it's synonomous with pedophilia and eating da poo poo

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;44089161]Sure, religious lobbies and missionaries might be the cause, but I'd say homophobia is rather justified by religion than caused by it. The New Testament doesn't say much about homosexuality, and you don't magically become homophobic just because you become a Christian.[/QUOTE] It's a very pick and choose type of religion, and they seem to be big fans of picking and choosing the part where the small minded man of the time who wrote the book wants people who are different from him to die.

Fuck them. If they aren't going to be a civilized society then we are better off just leaving them to fall apart. Of course that's terrible for the innocent people who need the aid but there's not really anything we can do.

Just let them starve and recolonize the land when they're gone.

[QUOTE=Bradyns;44088643]They'd rather starve, and have preventable diseases prevalent in their society, than let two people love each other.. Religion, it's a pretty fucking powerful & wicked thing.[/QUOTE] Homophobia isn't strictly religion, it's used as a way to justify it for some people. But that's disgusting to place the blame on religion.

[QUOTE=Steve Stump;44088583]I can't and probably will never understand homophobia.[/QUOTE] Its because you grew up in a progressive country and time. The US doesnt have a clean sheet when it comes to this stuff either. We've had many policies against gay marriage the latest national one (now repelled) was DOMA.

[QUOTE=luverofJ!93;44088748]The worst part is, Uganda didn't just magically become Christian. Guess who's fault that is? The people who are now removing aid![/QUOTE] If the colonists never converted them then Islam most probably would've got to them instead The thing is our attitudes towards it were much like theirs at some point, except on their part there's pretty much no indication that they're getting any better. It's probably an education thing

What a fucking shithole

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;44089161]Sure, religious lobbies and missionaries might be the cause, but I'd say homophobia is rather justified by religion than caused by it. The New Testament doesn't say much about homosexuality, and you don't magically become homophobic just because you become a Christian.[/QUOTE] you do become homophobic when the way you become a christian is being converted by psychotic missionaries [editline]2nd March 2014[/editline] and many christians (especially psycho ones) still preach/follow the old testament too [editline]2nd March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=thelurker1234;44093472]Homophobia isn't strictly religion, it's used as a way to justify it for some people. But that's disgusting to place the blame on religion.[/QUOTE] i think the blame can easily be placed on religion. how else do countries like greece and italy which historically were very sexually-open countries become incredibly homophobic after becoming staunchly catholic or orthodox? yeah sure it's not religion just by itself, alot of it is education but religious education at home still has a huge effect on people

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;44094431]i think the blame can easily be placed on religion. how else do countries like greece and italy which historically were very sexually-open countries become incredibly homophobic after becoming staunchly catholic or orthodox? yeah sure it's not religion just by itself, alot of it is education but religious education at home still has a huge effect on people[/QUOTE] Also why would you hate homosexuality unless you were [I]told[/I] it was bad? Religion may not be the sole reason but it is the biggest culprit

[QUOTE=Code3Response;44094127]Its because you grew up in a progressive country and time. The US doesnt have a clean sheet when it comes to this stuff either. We've had many policies against gay marriage the latest national one (now repelled) was DOMA.[/QUOTE] hell anti-sodomy laws were on the books of many states till as late as 2004, thats only 10 years ago, we're only just now moving past all the anti-gay laws enacted by the homophobic congress of 1996 i think the big shift in attitude is that in these last 10 years, homosexuality has been allowed out of the closet bit by bit, i went to school with openly gay people, my school didn't appear to care or take offense as long as they weren't making out in the middle of the hall (which normal couples were not allowed to do either) when people are exposed to something its much harder to demonize it, in countries uganda though, its been kept burried and people don't really know what a gay person looks like or acts like so they are willing to appeal to authority which is just as clueless but wants to demonize homosexuals for their own personal biases

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;44094431]you do become homophobic when the way you become a christian is being converted by psychotic missionaries [editline]2nd March 2014[/editline] and many christians (especially psycho ones) still preach/follow the old testament too [editline]2nd March 2014[/editline] i think the blame can easily be placed on religion. how else do countries like greece and italy which historically were very sexually-open countries become incredibly homophobic after becoming staunchly catholic or orthodox? yeah sure it's not religion just by itself, alot of it is education but religious education at home still has a huge effect on people[/QUOTE] I'm not that well-versed in this subject, but I'd still argue that "religion" is basically meaningless on its own - as other's have said it's very pick and choose, and thus it's more relevant to say that the then-current moral code of Europe influenced colonized Africa. A lot of Christians have absolutely nothing against homosexuals. The reason why I mentioned the NT and not the Old one is simply because I haven't read the old one, so I can't say how much it's mentioned there. There's Sodoma, but it's kinda ambiguous wording wise as to exactly what sins were committed. I'll agree that homosexuality is probably at least part of what is referred to. And Greece and Italy (Rome at least) [I]were[/I] fairly open towards homosexuality (I must admit that it was more prevalent than I believed), but I would say that it seems more power-related than what is known as homosexuality today. And some people did suggest that it should be abolished at that time as well. My first post was probably a bit cocksure (heh) with regards to the historical claim (though I can't find much on African homosexual culture in the times between ancient Egypt and the colonization), but I think too much blame is shifted onto the religion itself, which really discredits a lot of very decent people. I don't think religion is a good thing, since it has time and again been used to legitimize horrible stuff, but I think it is exactly that - legitimization. Case in point: [video=youtube;euXQbZDwV0w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euXQbZDwV0w[/video] It might be religious groups proponing this hate speech, but they're simply demonizing gay people, not necessarily referring to Chapter 12;10 in Luke or whatever.

yeah i agree it's not *just* religion, but it does play a huge part in it. especially this specific law which was lobbied for and funded by christian american missionaries

I love all the "Yea let those bastards starve, we are better off without them." You realize they might not have as much education about the topic as you? You realize that regardless of their beliefs, they deserve to be fed? You realize that the ones making the decisions won't be affected as much as the people who receive the aid?

[QUOTE=Troll;44109567]I love all the "Yea let those bastards starve, we are better off without them." You realize they might not have as much education about the topic as you? You realize that regardless of their beliefs, they deserve to be fed? You realize that the ones making the decisions won't be affected as much as the people who receive the aid?[/QUOTE] They're plenty educated about homosexuality though, didn't you see the pastor did his [I]research[/I] into how every gay person eats feces and takes an entire forearm up his ass. Cutting their aid is how we send a message that this is an objectively flawed way to justify the demonization of homosexuality, and therefore human rights.