[QUOTE]
A British father who fears his son is being brainwashed against him by his ex-wife, has been banned from taking him to a church after the boy's Muslim mother objected. The father – a non-practising Muslim born in the UK to Pakistani parents has been warned that he could be denied access to the nine-year-old if he attempts to take him to church or to a leisure centre run by the church.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/uk-judge-bans-british-father-taking-son-church-after-childs-muslim-mother-objects-1551792[/url]
ridiculous decision that restricts religious liberty, insane that this judge is allowed to sit.
[quote]"This judge is simply scared of being branded Islamophobic," he said. "I want my son to have a balanced life in which he is exposed to different faiths and can make up his own mind about which, if any, religion he follows."
"My son is being indoctrinated and the only way I can show him other things is to take him to other places," explained the father. "If I don't show him other types of life he will become just like a dumb sheep. I want him to see and learn about different cultures.[/quote]
I don't know why anyone would reject this mindset. Sounds like a cool dad to me.
Take him to a cathedral as a tourist, it's not for faith-purposes. But seriously that's a screwed up decision and highlights how women often have way more power in divorce court than men
[quote=article]"This judge is simply scared of being branded Islamophobic"[/quote]
This is all too true probably the reason why.
What the OP neglects to mention is that the ex-Wife has full custody of the child. He only has visitation rights.
OPs father appears to be a Christian— a stark contrast from his purported goal to "expose his child to different viewpoints" — he only wants to expose him to the Christian viewpoints— otherwise— he would also be taking his son to a synagogue, Buddha temples and even explore atheism with his son.
If he truly wanted to give him a balanced life where he is exposed to different faiths, then why is he only exposed to Christianity? Why not atheism? You can't say you're trying to make your son less like a sheep if you're not going to even touch atheism— and only touch the Christian religion out of the numerous others that exist.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50017256]What the OP neglects to mention is that the ex-Wife has full custody of the child. He only has visitation rights.
OPs father appears to be a Christian— a stark contrast from his purported goal to "expose his child to different viewpoints" — he only wants to expose him to the Christian viewpoints— otherwise— he would also be taking his son to a synagogue, Buddha temples and even explore atheism with his son.
If he truly wanted to give him a balanced life where he is exposed to different faiths, then why is he only exposed to Christianity? Why not atheism? You can't say you're trying to make your son less like a sheep if you're not going to even touch atheism— and only touch the Christian religion out of the numerous others that exist.[/QUOTE]
No point teaching the kid Buddhism or [enter religion here] if he doesn't know much about it himself, does it ?
[QUOTE]The mother won a court order preventing the boy from attending any other religious establishment after expressing concerns that the child might be confused if he is exposed to other religions. [/QUOTE]
Or he's going to take up a new religion and radical mommy doesn't want that
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50017256]What the OP neglects to mention is that the ex-Wife has full custody of the child. He only has visitation rights.
OPs father appears to be a Christian— a stark contrast from his purported goal to "expose his child to different viewpoints" — he only wants to expose him to the Christian viewpoints— otherwise— he would also be taking his son to a synagogue, Buddha temples and even explore atheism with his son.
If he truly wanted to give him a balanced life where he is exposed to different faiths, then why is he only exposed to Christianity? Why not atheism? You can't say you're trying to make your son less like a sheep if you're not going to even touch atheism— and only touch the Christian religion out of the numerous others that exist.[/QUOTE]
Being exposed to two differing religions is better than being raised in an increasingly hardline Islamic environment.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;50017277]No point teaching the kid Buddhism or [enter religion here] if he doesn't know much about it himself, does it ?[/QUOTE]
1. The father says he does not want his child to become a "sheep"
So in conclusion:
He takes him to Churches— only. How does this not befit the sheep mentality?
2. The father says he wants to expose him to different faiths and have a balanced life with "other religions to choose from"
So in conclusion:
He only takes him to Christian events. How does that give him a balanced life with equal exposure?
It doesn't matter if the kid doesn't already know about the other religions. His dad was the one who made that claim.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50017256]What the OP neglects to mention is that the ex-Wife has full custody of the child. He only has visitation rights.
OPs father appears to be a Christian— a stark contrast from his purported goal to "expose his child to different viewpoints" — he only wants to expose him to the Christian viewpoints— otherwise— he would also be taking his son to a synagogue, Buddha temples and even explore atheism with his son.
If he truly wanted to give him a balanced life where he is exposed to different faiths, then why is he only exposed to Christianity? Why not atheism? You can't say you're trying to make your son less like a sheep if you're not going to even touch atheism— and only touch the Christian religion out of the numerous others that exist.[/QUOTE]
I agree, but to be entirely fair we don't know if the boy's father intended on introducing him to other faiths other than Christianity or not. Not to mention it's likely exceedingly easier to educate and expose someone to something you're actually a part of or know a decent amount about, so it's no surprise he tried to expose him to Christianity first.
I dont think we know enough about this family and the different viewpoints of this situation to really make a good judgement on who's in the right here.
[QUOTE=Moronic;50017295]Being exposed to two differing religions is better than being raised in an increasingly hardline Islamic environment.[/QUOTE]
By offering even 1 single alternative he breaks the narrative that the other is absolute. It's like having a pope and anti-pope. If you spend your entire life following an absolute you'll probably believe that it really is absolute. Two contradictions claiming to both be absolute and denying the other opens up the individual.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50017256]What the OP neglects to mention is that the ex-Wife has full custody of the child. He only has visitation rights.
OPs father appears to be a Christian— a stark contrast from his purported goal to "expose his child to different viewpoints" — he only wants to expose him to the Christian viewpoints— otherwise— he would also be taking his son to a synagogue, Buddha temples and even explore atheism with his son.
If he truly wanted to give him a balanced life where he is exposed to different faiths, then why is he only exposed to Christianity? Why not atheism? You can't say you're trying to make your son less like a sheep if you're not going to even touch atheism— and only touch the Christian religion out of the numerous others that exist.[/QUOTE]
How is that a stark contrast? The boy has a muslim mother and a christian father, by showing him a religion and culture the father is a apart of the son can grow. Why shouldn't the father show the child his own religion? Why should the mother have the complete ability to indoctrinate him? The father can have other individuals more studied in Buddhism or Atheism to teach the child.
The mother can easily lie to the son about anything if he is only exposed to that one religion. Tone down the bias, Starpluck.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50017256]What the OP neglects to mention is that the ex-Wife has full custody of the child. He only has visitation rights.
OPs father appears to be a Christian— a stark contrast from his purported goal to "expose his child to different viewpoints" — he only wants to expose him to the Christian viewpoints— otherwise— he would also be taking his son to a synagogue, Buddha temples and even explore atheism with his son.
If he truly wanted to give him a balanced life where he is exposed to different faiths, then why is he only exposed to Christianity? Why not atheism? You can't say you're trying to make your son less like a sheep if you're not going to even touch atheism— and only touch the Christian religion out of the numerous others that exist.[/QUOTE]
"Being exposed to atheism"? I wasn't aware they had churches.
Neckbeard's cellars don't count.
Don't take me or my son to church ever again
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;50017333]How is that a stark contrast? The boy has a muslim mother and a christian father, by showing him a religion and culture the father is a apart of the son can grow. Why shouldn't the father show the child his own religion? Why should the mother have the complete ability to indoctrinate him? The father can have other individuals more studied in Buddhism or Atheism to teach the child.
The mother can easily lie to the son about anything if he is only exposed to that one religion. Tone down the bias, Starpluck.[/QUOTE]
His father is trying to make it seem like he's trying to show his son all the religions. Not expose him to [I]his[/I] religion.
When a father expresses so much concern about his son turning into a "sheep"— you'd expect more of a counter then Christian indoctrination in response. You don't "outsheep" your son by offering him Christian indoctrination in response to Islamic indoctrination. He is still going to be a sheep either way if that's all he's offered.
The son should be offered the ability to visit what ever religious establishment he pleases and not limited to Islam— and that includes visits to Churches— but I find the father's statements a little hypocritical.
It seems everyone is simply forgetting that my post was in response to "bitches" who called him a cool dad over this. How does this make him a "cool dad"? He's not exposing his child to "many different and balanced viewpoints" he's only exposing him his religion— Christianity— what's so cool about that? There is nothing wrong with doing this— and the child should be able to visit the Chruches with his dad— but let's not pretend his dad is doing an intellectual service to his son either. He's only doing this because he's Christian not because he's "cool" and wants to raise his son with unbiased motives (otherwise he would touch atheism).
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50017256]What the OP neglects to mention is that the ex-Wife has full custody of the child. He only has visitation rights.
OPs father appears to be a Christian— a stark contrast from his purported goal to "expose his child to different viewpoints" — he only wants to expose him to the Christian viewpoints— otherwise— he would also be taking his son to a synagogue, Buddha temples and even explore atheism with his son.
If he truly wanted to give him a balanced life where he is exposed to different faiths, then why is he only exposed to Christianity? Why not atheism? You can't say you're trying to make your son less like a sheep if you're not going to even touch atheism— and only touch the Christian religion out of the numerous others that exist.[/QUOTE]
Yeah no, the father isn't christian. It says so right in the quote in the OP
[quote]The father – a non-practising Muslim[/quote]
This isn't even to mention the fact that nowhere does it say that the father is explicitly taking him to only see Christianity.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50017390]His father is trying to make it seem like he's trying to show his son all the religions. Not expose him to [I]his[/I] religion.
When a father expresses so much concern about his son turning into a "sheep"— you'd expect more of a counter then Christian indoctrination in response. You don't "outsheep" your son by offering him Christian indoctrination in response to Islamic indoctrination. He is still going to be a sheep either way if that's all he's offered.
The son should be offered the ability to visit what ever religious establishment he pleases and not limited to Islam— and that includes visits to Churches— but I find the father's statements a little hypocritical.
It seems everyone is simply forgetting that my post was in response to "bitches" who called him a cool dad over this. How does this make him a "cool dad"? He's not exposing his child to "many different and balanced viewpoints" he's only exposing him his religion— Christianity— what's so cool about that? There is nothing wrong with doing this— and the child should be able to visit the Chruches with his dad— but let's not pretend his dad is doing an intellectual service to his son either. He's only doing this because he's Christian not because he's "cool" and wants to raise his son with unbiased motives (otherwise he would touch atheism).[/QUOTE]
I think you're looking for a narrative that doesn't exist. Where do you get the idea that he's only trying to indoctrinate him into the Christian faith? Because this:
[QUOTE]"I want my son to have a balanced life in which he is exposed to different faiths and can make up his own mind about which, [B]if any,[/B] religion he follows."[/QUOTE]
seems like anything but something that someone with that objective would say. You have no evidence that the father was not intent of exposing his son to other cultures and faiths as well.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;50017420]Yeah no, the father isn't christian. It says so right in the quote in the OP
This isn't even to mention the fact that nowhere does it say that the father is explicitly taking him to only see Christianity.[/QUOTE]
If he's a Muslim taking his child to Churches then good on him. I read he was a non-practicing Muslim but forgot by the time I got to the end of the article where it said multiple Christian organizations sought to defend his rights and assumed he was a Christian for it.
I cannot fathom why the mother is so pissed off. The father is Muslim and has nothing to gain from teaching his son Christianity.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50017474]If he's a Muslim taking his child to Churches then good on him. I read he was a non-practicing Muslim but forgot by the time I got to the end of the article where it said multiple Christian organizations sought to defend his rights and assumed he was a Christian for it.
I cannot fathom why the mother is so pissed off. The father is Muslim and has nothing to gain from teaching his son Christianity.[/QUOTE]
I suspect the mother is a hardliner and doesn't want the father exposing the son to other beliefs.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50017256]OPs father appears to be a Christian— a stark contrast from his purported goal to "expose his child to different viewpoints" — he only wants to expose him to the Christian viewpoints— otherwise— he would also be taking his son to a synagogue, Buddha temples and even explore atheism with his son.[/QUOTE]
Huh? it says he's a moslem in the OP itself, right in the second line:
[quote]The father – a non-practising Muslim[/quote]
Fucking Stargay.
"Why only christian places" A valid question but exposure to two religions is still better than exposure to just one.
I don't know Starpluck,you seem to be defending the actions of the mother from a Muslim perspective,which is all fine and dandy,doesn't mean the father should be prevented to teach his child about Christianity.If this had been reversed,I bet you there would be bigger outrage over it.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50017310]He only takes him to Christian events. How does that give him a balanced life with equal exposure?[/QUOTE]
[quote]The man and his Pakistani ex-wife married in 2003 and led a 'Western lifestyle'. However, when her father passed away in 2007, her mother told her that because he had not adhered to his faith he was in Hell, and would remain there unless she became a devout Muslim. She began attending a madrasa – an Islamic place of learning – wearing a hijab and shunning the couple's Christian friends. She left her husband in 2013, taking their son with her. The couple divorced last year.
"This is nothing short of brain-washing him. Already he is telling me that I have a black heart, that I am a bad man, because I am not a practising Muslim. I am heartbroken that I have to keep him away from activities with local children.
The father added that he was brought up in a strict household that was suspicious of other religious practices and is now intent on ensuring his son has a more balanced outlook. "That was important to me because of the strict religious manner in which I was brought up," he said. "I was taught that Christians were heartless and immoral, that only Muslims have a peaceful faith and all others are evil. It was only when I began mixing with Christians that I learned this was nonsense."[/quote]
maybe he's trying to show him that christians are not all that bad??????
but sure let's get mad at the husband for trying to show him christianity, and not the mother who brainwashed his son into thinking he's immoral.
[editline]27th March 2016[/editline]
The father is the reasonable one, if everything he said was 100% true and if everything said in the article was 100% true. I don't know how reputable this source is but let's examine two outcomes.
Outcome 1: Father was telling the truth, mother is trying to brainwash their child in the name of religion. Father shows that Christians are not all that bad through church services and activities. Son now has a viewpoint of both Christianity and Islam and he can decide for himself if the mother is wrong about Christianity.
Outcome 2: Father was lying, mother isn't brainwashing their child and the son thinks that he's immoral for other reasons. Father is trying to brainwash their child because Christianity saved him.
one day someone may ban stupidity too but it's not gunna be anytime soon
[QUOTE=Dwarden;50018559]one day someone may ban stupidity[/QUOTE]
Todo list
- Stop using religion to push agendas
- Stop placing monetary value over people
- Stop being a fucking asshole all together
None of the above is gonna happen anytime soon so I wouldn't hold your breath
Even if the father was a Christian and wanted to bring his son to church because of that then so what? If the mother is allowed to bring him to a mosque the father should be allowed to bring him to a church. Her having custody doesn't mean she has full control of her child's beliefs, that's fucked up.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50017310]1. The father says he does not want his child to become a "sheep"
So in conclusion:
He takes him to Churches— only. How does this not befit the sheep mentality?
2. The father says he wants to expose him to different faiths and have a balanced life with "other religions to choose from"
So in conclusion:
He only takes him to Christian events. How does that give him a balanced life with equal exposure?
It doesn't matter if the kid doesn't already know about the other religions. His dad was the one who made that claim.[/QUOTE]
aint 1 jesus saying "the lord is my shepherd" rofl
Freedom of religion should be more about freedom [I]from[/I] religion in my opinion. Let the kid figure out what he thinks later on when he can actually be responsible for his own opinions.
[QUOTE=Kljunas;50020133]Even if the father was a Christian and wanted to bring his son to church because of that then so what? If the mother is allowed to bring him to a mosque the father should be allowed to bring him to a church. Her having custody doesn't mean she has full control of her child's beliefs, that's fucked up.[/QUOTE]
muh white guilt tho. Clearly the mom trying to radicalize him (and she is, because she's a crazy herself.) into islam is better than the dad trying to give him a breadth of experiences and letting him choose for himself.
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