Firearms XIV - All the Calicos Are Over There - General

Shameless rip of last OP: THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR GUN DEBATES IT'S MERELY FOR GUN OWNERS AND PROSPECTIVE GUN OWNERS TO DISCUSS ALL THINGS GUNS Let's talk more guns. This is the 14th thread of the Facepunch Firearms thread. Here we discuss firearms and all things related. We give advice on purchases and help with finding parts. If you're not knowledgeable about firearms and would like to get into them, ask and we'll help. Popular YouTube channels about guns: [url]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWJ...WvOsdyRF3HPVEw[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXN...K1zByMbaoX4NYQ[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrf...QXcbe68dzXgJuA[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9I...mk6cjZEIgIPvvg[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFJ...J1ecBU6Sxc3bCA[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5l...YDB-9-uQoY2jIg[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7h...2Iuy_3oXJOAy0A[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw8...I0LfvKt7xbf33w[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3j...08f4E3IF_ovY5A[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoX...jTEOs41GZZ7uvw[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcn...bPQ1xpI1kXKezw[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvB...qtgDeLpD-yTtfg[/url] Gun related websites: [url]www.budsgunshop.com[/url] [url]www.bulkammo.com[/url] [url]www.gunbroker.com[/url] Discuss the Gun Stuff.

Anyone have any detailed information on wall penetration with different calibers and ammo types? I'm looking at 5.56 specifically, and maybe 9mm.

Box O' Truth has some entries on wall penetration. [URL]http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-12-insulated-walls/[/URL] [URL]http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls/[/URL] It's a great web site to see some firearm myths debunked, like shooting locks and how metal house doors don't really protect you. At the end of every post, he sums up what happened for those who have a short attention span.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;50880875]Anyone have any detailed information on wall penetration with different calibers and ammo types? I'm looking at 5.56 specifically, and maybe 9mm.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#mozTocId803443[/url] [img]http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/DocGKRData/WoundProfilesAfterWallBarrier.jpg[/img]

Looks like 9mm JHP is a no-go for home defense, same for 5.56mm M193.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;50881141]Looks like 9mm JHP is a no-go for home defense, same for 5.56mm M193.[/QUOTE] M193 still works indoors, but it's worth it to spend $60 to get 40rds of premium ammo if you intend to use it indoors. Personally, I like Speer Gold Dot in .223 or 5.56, or the Federal Fusion. Also, as an aside for those who have AKs, Hornady SST/VMAX, Federal Fusion, Winchester PDX-1 and PPU SPs are your best bet for indoor or outdoor self defense or hunting with 7.62x39, out of a 16" or 10" barrel. Playlist of gel tests of the above: [url]https://www.youtube.com/playlist?annotation_id=annotation_1671413889&feature=iv&list=PL4bt-Jy7IRR55_C0qHnqBlxE8N2d5ytOz&src_vid=_Jn6GiiVrcM[/url]

[IMG]http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Images/DocGKR/M1CarbineWP.jpg[/IMG] Really like how the FMJ .30 carbine did a 180 to examine the wound channel on the way out. I'd like to imagine it saying 'get bent, pinko' as it drifts off.

[QUOTE=MAC21500;50881178]M193 still works indoors, but it's worth it to spend $60 to get 40rds of premium ammo if you intend to use it indoors.[/QUOTE] I'm surrounded by houses on all sides. I could care less about what kind of wound a given projectile causes, I just don't want to injure my neighbors. Is there anything that no-shit, guaranteed, won't penetrate through an exterior wall? Would a .223 varmint round fit the bill?

So my lower parts kit came before my lower did because apparently my transfer still hasn't been approved yet, though I know of some people who have had theirs approved already. My co-worker is already looking to buy my Chinese AR for $450.

Most of the .223 and 5.56 listed, except the barrier blind loads possibly, would stop after a wall or two, as shown below. Some good visual representations here, 5.7x28 VMAX disintegrates after one wall. Premium .223/5.56 jacketed soft points look like the way to go over 40gr varmint ammo. [url]http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html[/url] FBI observations on .223 drywall ballistics (bullet used was a 55gr Federal JSP also mentioned and recommended in the other comprehensive link): [url]http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=26[/url]

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;50881245]I'm surrounded by houses on all sides. I could care less about what kind of wound a given projectile causes, I just don't want to injure my neighbors. Is there anything that no-shit, guaranteed, won't penetrate through an exterior wall? Would a .223 varmint round fit the bill?[/QUOTE] Varmint would be one of the best as far as wall penetration is concerned. Anything 40 grains and lighter would work.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;50881245]I'm surrounded by houses on all sides. I could care less about what kind of wound a given projectile causes, I just don't want to injure my neighbors. Is there anything that no-shit, guaranteed, won't penetrate through an exterior wall? Would a .223 varmint round fit the bill?[/QUOTE] I remember someone recommending 60gr V-max at one point. Heavy enough to create deep wounds, lightly constructed enough to break up. It would probably require testing. [editline]14th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Lone_Star94;50881395]Varmint would be one of the best as far as wall penetration is concerned. Anything 40 grains and lighter would work.[/QUOTE] I'm doubtful a 40gr varmint wound would penetrate deeply enough to create debilitating wounds.

[QUOTE=download;50881434]I remember someone recommending 60gr V-max at one point. Heavy enough to create deep wounds, lightly constructed enough to break up. It would probably require testing. [editline]14th August 2016[/editline] I'm doubtful a 40gr varmint wound would penetrate deeply enough to create debilitating wounds.[/QUOTE] The 60gr TAP performed better than the 55gr as far as drywall pen. I'd still stay with the 55 or 60gr JSPs over varmint rounds for home defense.

My house is full brick - do I really need to worry about injuring the neighbors? I keep a pair of 3" magnum hollowpoint slugs near my double barrel, I figure that will do the trick. I can't imagine they'd go through the brick, and even if they did, they surely wouldn't have enough velocity to injure anyone on the other side, right?

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50881672]My house is full brick - do I really need to worry about injuring the neighbors? I keep a pair of 3" magnum hollowpoint slugs near my double barrel, I figure that will do the trick. I can't imagine they'd go through the brick, and even if they did, they surely wouldn't have enough velocity to injure anyone on the other side, right?[/QUOTE] Well in that case, the best option would be an M107A1 CQB with Raufoss rounds :V Could be bad: [media]https://youtu.be/KIjB7XjXafs[/media]

It'd be a more helpful video if it was against a larger wall with mortar between the bricks.

I bought some repro C96 grip panels to put on whenever I take her out to a social shooting event since the originals are numbered to the gun and are very soft wood. They don't fit (they're too big all around) and the seller is trying to convince me I have a Bolo. Funniest looking fucking Bolo I've ever seen then.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50884399]I bought some repro C96 grip panels to put on whenever I take her out to a social shooting event since the originals are numbered to the gun and are very soft wood. They don't fit (they're too big all around) and the seller is trying to convince me I have a Bolo. Funniest looking fucking Bolo I've ever seen then.[/QUOTE] Why not sand it down to fit? Or just make a set for general use?

I am too lazy to sand them

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50884620]I am too lazy to sand them[/QUOTE] takes 10 minutes and $10 worth of supplies

Well, I just dumped 300+ rounds through the AR556 this afternoon. It was a [I]bitch[/I] to clean.

What company makes piston-driven uppers for ARs, and are they usually an unreasonable amount of money?

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;50887494]What company makes piston-driven uppers for ARs, and are they usually an unreasonable amount of money?[/QUOTE] Buy a SIG556 instead.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50887565]Buy a SIG556 instead.[/QUOTE] Well I bought a lower, so I want an upper to put on it, rather than buy another, completely different gun.

Every pawn shop or gun store I've entered I've had the same general encounter with the owners where they act patronizing or dismissive towards me as a customer. I'll hear some the same "it looks like you've probably never handled a gun before" and similar remarks and I'm decided not to give any of them my business period. Is it generally this bad or is it because I'm a short little skinny white dude in the deep south. The tones are condescending and full of disrespect and I don't get how they can even remotely hold a business at this standard.

[QUOTE=Da Big Man;50887740]Every pawn shop or gun store I've entered I've had the same general encounter with the owners where they act patronizing or dismissive towards me as a customer. I'll hear some the same "it looks like you've probably never handled a gun before" and similar remarks and I'm decided not to give any of them my business period. Is it generally this bad or is it because I'm a short little skinny white dude in the deep south. The tones are condescending and full of disrespect and I don't get how they can even remotely hold a business at this standard.[/QUOTE] One of the upsides of a licensing system is that nearly everyone who is buying a gun/ammunition knows their stuff so we don't have much condescending attitude.

[QUOTE=Da Big Man;50887740]Every pawn shop or gun store I've entered I've had the same general encounter with the owners where they act patronizing or dismissive towards me as a customer. I'll hear some the same "it looks like you've probably never handled a gun before" and similar remarks and I'm decided not to give any of them my business period. Is it generally this bad or is it because I'm a short little skinny white dude in the deep south. The tones are condescending and full of disrespect and I don't get how they can even remotely hold a business at this standard.[/QUOTE] It's usually that bad... I get it pretty bad when I go to gun show since I look like I'm 17-18 vs 23. I get a lot of the "what are you doing here, kid" looks. I get people trying to peddle off their beat up handguns and super tacticool knock offs. Showing people my concealed license (in a appropriate environments) when they ask for ID condescendingly usually gets the best reactions though. No one ever expects it.

[QUOTE=Da Big Man;50887740]Every pawn shop or gun store I've entered I've had the same general encounter with the owners where they act patronizing or dismissive towards me as a customer. I'll hear some the same "it looks like you've probably never handled a gun before" and similar remarks and I'm decided not to give any of them my business period. Is it generally this bad or is it because I'm a short little skinny white dude in the deep south. The tones are condescending and full of disrespect and I don't get how they can even remotely hold a business at this standard.[/QUOTE] It's probably your local area. I've never had that problem up here in Illinois, and I've got terminal baby-face. Tell you what though, next time someone pulls that shit with you, give them a snappy response. Be creative. Folks like that won't respect you unless you stand up for yourself.

[QUOTE=download;50887755]One of the upsides of a licensing system is that nearly everyone who is buying a gun/ammunition knows their stuff so we don't have much condescending attitude.[/QUOTE] Unless you're a woman, then they still assume you don't know shit. My team lead is the one of us who hunts the most, and customers have still asked a male employee at the gun counter the same question after asking her just because she's a woman and they assume she doesn't know what she's talking about. Also I can tell you from working at a gun shop, having a license doesn't mean you know a damn thing. Plenty of idiots who have no idea what they're doing still come into the shop with their licenses, what's scary is when it's someone who's had it for decades.

[QUOTE=Da Big Man;50887740]Every pawn shop or gun store I've entered I've had the same general encounter with the owners where they act patronizing or dismissive towards me as a customer. I'll hear some the same "it looks like you've probably never handled a gun before" and similar remarks and I'm decided not to give any of them my business period. Is it generally this bad or is it because I'm a short little skinny white dude in the deep south. The tones are condescending and full of disrespect and I don't get how they can even remotely hold a business at this standard.[/QUOTE] I've never had this problem, even buying guns in the deep Georgian south, but I also don't look like a 12 year old.