The NSA Gives The DEA Information on American Citizens to Make Non-terrorist investigations; WE AINT - Polidicks

[QUOTE](Reuters) -[B] Eight Democratic senators and congressmen have asked Attorney General Eric Holder to answer questions about a Reuters report that the National Security Agency supplies the Drug Enforcement Administration with intelligence information used to make non-terrorism cases against American citizens.[/B] [B]The August report revealed that a secretive DEA unit passes the NSA information to agents in the field, including those from the Internal Revenue Service, the FBI and Homeland Security, with instructions to never disclose the original source, even in court. In most cases, the NSA tips involve drugs, money laundering and organized crime, not terrorism.[/B] Five Democrats in the Senate and three senior Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee submitted questions to Holder about the NSA-DEA relationship, joining two prominent Republicans who have expressed concerns. The matter will be discussed during classified briefings scheduled for September, Republican and Democratic aides said. "These allegations raise serious concerns that gaps in the policy and law are allowing overreach by the federal government's intelligence gathering apparatus," wrote the senators - Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, Ron Wyden of Oregon, Tom Udall of New [URL="http://www.reuters.com/places/mexico?lc=int_mb_1001"]Mexico[/URL], Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut and Sherrod Brown of Ohio. Holder, an appointee of U.S. President [URL="http://www.reuters.com/people/barack-obama?lc=int_mb_1001"]Barack Obama[/URL], is the country's top lawman as head of the Justice Department. The Justice Department is reviewing the congressional inquiry, a spokesman for Holder said on Monday. The Reuters reports cited internal documents that show how DEA's Special Operations Division funnels information from overseas NSA intercepts, domestic wiretaps, informants and a large DEA database of telephone records to authorities nationwide to help them launch criminal investigations of Americans. The documents show that agents have been trained to conceal how such investigations truly begin - to "recreate" the investigative trail to effectively cover up the original source of the information, raising questions about whether exculpatory information might be withheld from defendants at trial. [/QUOTE] [url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/27/us-usa-security-dea-idUSBRE97P0Y520130827[/url] The NSA isn't about fucking security, it's about making an all seeing surveillance system so the faggot law doesn't have to do any work and they can eat more doughnuts.

Is anyone really surprised anymore?

There comes a point where 'Police State' starts looking too little like hyperbole or conspiracy bullshit and more like a mild exaggeration. If this trend continues, it'll be understatement one day. Abandon ship, come to Canada instead.

[QUOTE=breakyourfac;41984279]The NSA isn't about fucking security, it's about making an all seeing surveillance system so the faggot law doesn't have to do any work and they can eat more doughnuts.[/QUOTE] Organised crime isn't a security problem?

[QUOTE=Rents;41984427]Organised crime isn't a security problem?[/QUOTE] No. It's a criminal problem. A police matter. This is why we have laws and in other countries we have rules of engagement. Because we have a constitution.

[QUOTE=Rents;41984427]Organised crime isn't a security problem?[/QUOTE] It only becomes a security problem where the organized criminals try to overthrow the government.

[QUOTE=Rents;41984427]Organised crime isn't a security problem?[/QUOTE] You're really justifying illegal search and seizure, illegal warrants, entire illegal investigations just because "it stops crime! lol!". Of course I should expect this from somebody who doesn't even live in America.

When the government finally completely stops recognizing the authority of the people, they'll already have the means to put down any rebellion before it even begins. What do we do now?

[QUOTE=Disgruntled;41984594]When the government finally completely stops recognizing the authority of the people, they'll already have the means to put down any rebellion before it even begins. What do we do now?[/QUOTE] Nothing, we all stop going to work, we all stop making the industry function.

[QUOTE=Disgruntled;41984594]When the government finally completely stops recognizing the authority of the people, they'll already have the means to put down any rebellion before it even begins. What do we do now?[/QUOTE] Protest? Spread the word?

[QUOTE=Kybalt;41984446]No. It's a criminal problem. A police matter. This is why we have laws and in other countries we have rules of engagement. Because we have a constitution.[/QUOTE] This is a jurisdiction issue that's a little more complicated than people make it out to be. Let's use a thought experiment: We have a drug cartel in Mexico moving drugs across the border into the US. The NSA has a bug in place that tells them that a shipment is going to be picked up by an American citizen in Mexico, who will bring it back across the border. They relay this information to the DEA, who make the arrest after the person enters the US. Suddenly, news headline: NSA Gives The DEA Information on American Citizens to Make Non-terrorist Investigations. Who was in the wrong here? The NSA's job is to perform foreign surveillance, and the DEA's job is to perform domestic enforcement. The NSA doesn't have the authority to operate within the US. The DEA doesn't have the authority to operate outside the US. The best thing for both agencies to do is simply share information so they can perform their relevant tasks, but what makes it complicated is that maybe the person the NSA is watching is actually a US citizen, operating overseas. Who should be the one to conduct this investigation, then? Maybe the FBI? Well, now it's getting complicated, and the FBI can't operate overseas either. So now at best we have the NSA monitoring a US citizen overseas, the FBI monitoring the same citizen domestically, and the DEA needing info from both to make an arrest. That's a mess. Just some food for thought. Not every case is as murky as this, and the NSA monitoring US citizens exclusively domestically is definitely overstepping their reach and needs to be curbed hard. But it's usually not so clear-cut.

[QUOTE=SinjinOmega;41984656]Protest? Spread the word?[/QUOTE] Only to be shut down when the FBI plants terrorism plots to 'blow up a bridge?' see: occupy movement. This peaceful protesting shit won't work, we need to go all out or nothing.

[QUOTE=breakyourfac;41984704]Only to be shut down when the FBI plants terrorism plots to 'blow up a bridge?' see: occupy movement. This peaceful protesting shit won't work, we need to go all out or nothing.[/QUOTE] Can't blame me for not being some idiot simply trying to incite a riot and not knowing shit about the situation. But how big was the occupy movement anyway? Especially compared to America's population.

[QUOTE=SinjinOmega;41984792]Can't blame me for not being some idiot simply trying to incite a riot and not knowing shit about the situation. But how big was the occupy movement anyway? Especially compared to America's population.[/QUOTE] There was a protest in just about every state capitol that had a sizable population. It was large enough to scare the crap out of the gov't and force them to plant propaganda to discredit the movement.

Remember kids! The fourth amendment is only applicable when... Err...

Of course they aren't using all of this information strictly for foreign terrorism. In fact, at this point I'm willing to bet that the NSA's tools are far more useful for domestic investigation and prosecution than pursuing the dwindling ranks of Al Qaeda. We are definitely now moving into the unconstitutional category. The FISA court is not authorized to allow surveillance of domestic Americans for the non-terror-related purposes of domestic law enforcement. We have a plethora of laws dictating very clearly where the DEA and FBI's access to personal movements and information end, and the NSA is simply conducting an end run around our constitutional protections so those agencies can put Americans in jail without dealing with inconvenient civil rights issues. The NSA needs to be closed down and overhauled from top to bottom.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;41985235]The NSA needs to be closed down and overhauled from top to bottom.[/QUOTE] why reopen it? the corrupt us will just put even more corrupt officials and workers in there. i say we do away with the nsa and fbi as well as every other government agency, so it'll be impossible to illegally imprison or spy on citizens

[QUOTE=Greenen72;41985498]why reopen it? the corrupt us will just put even more corrupt officials and workers in there. i say we do away with the nsa[B] and fbi as well as every other government agency[/B], so it'll be impossible to illegally imprison or spy on citizens[/QUOTE] Woah woah woah Mr. Anarchist calm down. Don't you think completely dissolving the government is a little much?

fyi, if the DEA has it all other government police entities (including the CIA) also have it. I would even go as far to speculate that most police entities in the country now have this information due to a DEA program that shares information among everyone

[QUOTE=areolop;41985651]fyi, if the DEA has it all other government police entities (including the CIA) also have it. I would even go as far to speculate that most police entities in the country now have this information due to a DEA program that shares information among everyone[/QUOTE] Oh neat, I have a feeling that this is why two days after I started selling weed. I started getting harassed by the local police.

[QUOTE=breakyourfac;41985578]Woah woah woah Mr. Anarchist calm down. Don't you think completely dissolving the government is a little much?[/QUOTE] Yeah, I definitely wouldn't go that far. But I do feel the NSA is institutionally power drunk on their power to invade people's lives, and that mentality can't be fixed by some piecemeal discipline. The agency's entire mission needs to be rewritten and the staff needs to be replaced by people with healthy oversight and a healthy respect for civil liberties. We need to purge this whole hawkish idea that everybody is a potential terrorist or criminal except for the NSA themselves.

[QUOTE=breakyourfac;41984704]Only to be shut down when the FBI plants terrorism plots to 'blow up a bridge?' see: occupy movement. [B]This peaceful protesting shit won't work, we need to go all out or nothing[/B].[/QUOTE] Now you fucked up, skip the country cause you're about to get your door kicked in.

[QUOTE=Binladen34;41985945]Now you fucked up, skip the country cause you're about to get your door kicked in.[/QUOTE] I'd love for them to do that, I really would.

[QUOTE=breakyourfac;41984543]You're really justifying illegal search and seizure, illegal warrants, entire illegal investigations just because "it stops crime! lol!". [b]Of course I should expect this from somebody who doesn't even live in America[/b].[/QUOTE] "you're not american you don't know what freedom is" yup

[QUOTE=breakyourfac;41986000]I'd love for them to do that, I really would.[/QUOTE] No you wouldn't, you'd shit yourself.

[QUOTE=Harry3;41986076]No you wouldn't, you'd shit yourself.[/QUOTE] It would be a satisfying shit though because it'd just prove his point.

[QUOTE=Flapadar;41986065]"you're not american you don't know what freedom is" yup[/QUOTE] Do I understand France's constitution completely? No. Should I expect someone from overseas to understand America's constitution fully? No.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/S424ORR.jpg[/IMG] give her the d

[QUOTE=breakyourfac;41986115]Do I understand France's constitution completely? No. Should I expect someone from overseas to understand America's constitution fully? No.[/QUOTE] I'm not French - but you've ignored my point. You implied illegal search and seizure etc are something someone who's not American wouldn't understand. Which is plain wrong unless you're looking at backwards ass countries.

[QUOTE=breakyourfac;41986000]I'd love for them to do that, I really would.[/QUOTE] yeah I thought the same, but then one day Seal Team 6 kicked in my door. Wasn't so funny when it actually happened!