Appeals court rules with states challenging Obama's immigration action - Polidicks

[QUOTE] WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama's plan to shield millions of undocumented immigrants from deportation was dealt another setback on Tuesday when a U.S. appeals court refused to lift a block put in place by 26 states that argued Obama overstepped his authority. By a 2-1 vote that could pave the way to a Supreme Court ruling, the judges from the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans ruled that Obama's executive action should remain on hold pending further judicial proceedings. Democrat Obama's administration has said it is within its rights to ask the Department of Homeland Security to use discretion before deporting nonviolent migrants with U.S. family ties. But the judges' opinion said the approval rate of Obama's earlier executive action on immigration, aimed at people brought into the United States as children, was too high to reflect true discretion. The case has become the focal point of Obama's efforts to change U.S. immigration policy. Seeing no progress on legislative reform in Congress, Obama announced in November he would take executive action to help immigrants. He has since faced criticism from Republicans who say the program grants amnesty to lawbreakers.[/QUOTE] [url]http://news.yahoo.com/appeals-court-rules-states-challenging-obamas-immigration-action-183027287.html[/url]

Good. They don't need to be taking up our jobs and resources without coughing up their fair share of taxes.

[QUOTE=RocketSnail;47812712]Good. They don't need to be taking up our jobs and resources without paying their share of taxes.[/QUOTE] What? From what I understand most illegals do actually end up paying taxes. Maybe not income taxes (though I assume most do) but there's also sales taxes, tolls, and the like. And a road to legalization / citizenship would also force them to pay taxes. That being said I don't agree with Obama's executive action. At least know what you're talking about...

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;47812741]What? From what I understand most illegals do actually end up paying taxes. Maybe not income taxes (though I assume most do) but there's also sales taxes, tolls, and the like. And a road to legalization / citizenship would also force them to pay taxes. That being said I don't agree with Obama's executive action. At least know what you're talking about...[/QUOTE] Yes, they do end up paying some sort of tax.

[QUOTE=RocketSnail;47812712]Good. They don't need to be taking up our jobs and resources without coughing up their fair share of taxes.[/QUOTE] Nobody wants these jobs, and the immigrants do pay taxes. There's no reason this should get winners, we have a broken immigration system and this is one of many ways to alleviate it. This is just more of the southern states freaking out for little reason.

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;47812741]What? From what I understand most illegals do actually end up paying taxes. Maybe not income taxes (though I assume most do) but there's also sales taxes, tolls, and the like. And a road to legalization / citizenship would also force them to pay taxes. That being said I don't agree with Obama's executive action. At least know what you're talking about...[/QUOTE] The only tax they could possibly pay is sales tax and gas tax. Road tolls? If you're caught driving as an undocumented your ass is out of here and they'd have to be stupid to do that since police can and often will scan your license plate. Income tax would put them on the radar because if they have no social security card or government issued ID an employer would risk getting in deep shit with the feds.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;47812773]The only tax they could possibly pay is sales tax and gas tax. Road tolls? If you're caught driving as an undocumented your ass is out of here and they'd have to be stupid to do that since police can and often will scan your license plate. Income tax would put them on the radar because if they have no social security card or government issued ID an employer would risk getting in deep shit with the feds.[/QUOTE] By being sheltered by the government, they're going to be able to pay taxes.

[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;47812786]By being sheltered by the government, they're going to be able to pay taxes.[/QUOTE] They should get in line and go through proper process like all the other legals. Want the process to change? Get your senators and reps to do so.

[QUOTE=RocketSnail;47812712]Good. They don't need to be taking up our jobs and resources without coughing up their fair share of taxes.[/QUOTE] They are taxed exactly like you or me. The people who provide them jobs need to appear to be on the level, so not only do they take taxes out of their undocumented worker's paychecks, but the worker can never claim a tax return or get any tax breaks. Meanwhile, because they lack the necessary documentation and fear deportation, they utilize basically no government services and commit no crime. In short: they contribute more than you do, and use less than you do.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;47812773]The only tax they could possibly pay is sales tax and gas tax. Road tolls? If you're caught driving as an undocumented your ass is out of here and they'd have to be stupid to do that since police can and often will scan your license plate. Income tax would put them on the radar because if they have no social security card or government issued ID an employer would risk getting in deep shit with the feds.[/QUOTE] Dunno how it is in the U.S. but if you don't have a tax file number here, which you are allowed to not have even if you are a citizen (it's opt-in), your employer has to withhold 47% of your income for tax purposes. And I assume no questions would be asked about the identity of that employee because hey the tax office is not gonna complain about that revenue.

[QUOTE=RocketSnail;47812712]Good. They don't need to be taking up our jobs and resources without coughing up their fair share of taxes.[/QUOTE] You go work that agicultre job in CA then. Being paid by how much you produce, not hourly. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7TGWaHaUeU[/media]

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;47812792]They should get in line and go through proper process like all the other legals. Want the process to change? Get your senators and reps to do so.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the "line" to full citizenship is decades long for Mexican immigrants

[QUOTE=Rofl my Waff;47812955]I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the "line" to full citizenship is decades long for Mexican immigrants[/QUOTE] Pretty much anyone who isn't either really high profile like a celebrity or really important like a scientist. The waiting list for common folk is very long and many people never get accepted at all.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;47812792]They should get in line and go through proper process like all the other legals. Want the process to change? Get your senators and reps to do so.[/QUOTE] 1) As a Legal Immigrant and Naturalized Citizen, you're full of shit. Even with what amount to a cut through the line with the Green Card, it took a decade or so for the processing to be entirely finished. People with just Visas (even if they do get that) have to deal with longer periods of time. There is also a whole bunch of problems, such as Federal lack of concept of same-sex marriage which causes further problems. 2) Senators and Reps ain't gonna change shit specifically because of shitheads like you talking how everyone should just "Get in Line" and "Stop taking our jerbs as shit cleaners and pseudo slave labor, cause any natural born American would have taken that job!".

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;47812773]If you're caught driving as an undocumented your ass is out of here and they'd have to be stupid to do that since police can and often will scan your license plate.[/QUOTE] Scanning a license plate is useless. A [I]lot[/I] of states don't require a license, or even car insurance to purchase a vehicle. On top of that, police aren't going to go randomly scanning license plates around town - that's a severe waste of time and money that can actually be spent combating other, more direct crimes. All illegals would have to do to avoid law enforcement is drive by the laws of the road, which aren't difficult at all unless they don't understand what "YIELD" and "STOP" are in English (but are extremely easy to figure out).

[QUOTE=RocketSnail;47812712]Good. They don't need to be taking up our jobs and resources without coughing up their fair share of taxes.[/QUOTE] Yeah just like those fucking Muslims, Africans, Vietnamese, Japanese, Chinese, Italians, Germans, Irish, Scottish, Involuntary-Africans, French, Dutch, English. Fucking lazy immigrants.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47813140]Scanning a license plate is useless. A [I]lot[/I] of states don't require a license, or even car insurance to purchase a vehicle. On top of that, police aren't going to go randomly scanning license plates around town - that's a severe waste of time and money that can actually be spent combating other, more direct crimes. All illegals would have to do to avoid law enforcement is drive by the laws of the road, which aren't difficult at all unless they don't understand what "YIELD" and "STOP" are in English (but are extremely easy to figure out).[/QUOTE] You would be surprised how many plates get manually ran and how many the ALPR does

[QUOTE=Code3Response;47813180]You would be surprised how many plates get manually ran and how many the ALPR does[/QUOTE] You would be surprised how much it doesn't affect illegal immigration.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;47812792]They should get in line and go through proper process like all the other legals. Want the process to change? Get your senators and reps to do so.[/QUOTE] Ideally it wouldn't take decades, the whole system is busted to shit but rating agree because it does need to change.

It seems that "Americans" forget that their families, too, were immigrants once. If anybody should be able to kick anybody out, it should be the native Indians people grabbed land from. Even then it's foolish as shit because territory and property are abstract concepts and in reality nobody owns anything. Mother nature won't give a shit about what's who's when the tornadoes rip it apart.

[QUOTE=NeverGoWest;47813362]It seems that "Americans" forget that their families, too, were immigrants once. If anybody should be able to kick anybody out, it should be the native Indians people grabbed land from. Even then it's foolish as shit because territory and property are abstract concepts and in reality nobody owns anything. Mother nature won't give a shit about what's who's when the tornadoes rip it apart.[/QUOTE] Yeah these abstract concepts are pretty paramount to having some form of Social democracy and prosperity within a society. You can't just say "You were an immigrant once, so you should be for any immigration", places are overcrowded, things are expensive, rents go up rapidly, the Sunbelt has risen in population by twenty to thirty million in the past couple of years alone. It's all about resource allocation and there's not an unlimited amount of it.

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;47812741]What? From what I understand most illegals do actually end up paying taxes. Maybe not income taxes [/QUOTE] Yep, they pay them.

[QUOTE=RocketSnail;47812712]Good. They don't need to be taking up our jobs and resources without coughing up their fair share of taxes.[/QUOTE] Anytime you use money its taxed, immigrants are already paying taxes and not taking government checks like the red states all do. This sucks though that congress cannot act to overhaul immigration, the problem will not go away by refusing to bring the bill to the floor [editline]27th May 2015[/editline] What's worse is people calling to abolish natural citizenship as if that somehow will not make the process 100x more fucked up

[QUOTE=RocketSnail;47812712]Good. They don't need to be taking up our jobs and resources without coughing up their fair share of taxes.[/QUOTE] Actually immigrants pay more in taxes than most people that make this retarded argument. So..

[QUOTE=draugur;47813445]Actually immigrants pay more in taxes than most people that make this retarded argument. So..[/QUOTE] Illegal immigrants aren't going to be paying income tax and social security as they're often paid under the counter. That would mean they're not paying more in taxes than most people unless by most people you mean the disabled, the retired, and children. [editline]27th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Sableye;47813426]Anytime you use money its taxed, immigrants are already paying taxes and not taking government checks like the red states all do. This sucks though that congress cannot act to overhaul immigration, the problem will not go away by refusing to bring the bill to the floor [editline]27th May 2015[/editline] What's worse is people calling to abolish natural citizenship as if that somehow will not make the process 100x more fucked up[/QUOTE] People have somehow bought into the idea that streamlining citizenship is the way to go. That's a copout used by parties to get more potential voters as that's one of the only benefits inferred over Permanent residency. The priority should be permanent residency, but the focus is always on how long it takes to get through the citizenship process. The problem with natural citizenship when you reach the modern day is that there's much freer movements of peoples. Back when it was instituted, it was not as easy to get into the country as travel was way more severely limited. It makes sense if people are pretty much stuck in some place upon arrival, but with things being extremely fluid as they are, the idea can be questioned at the very least. It's an entire system that needs to be a bit overhauled, along with the idea that citizens of the US can be taxed regardless of what country they live in.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;47812792]They should get in line and go through proper process like all the other legals. Want the process to change? Get your senators and reps to do so.[/QUOTE] If only a politician in this country had done something to ease the burden on immigrants that I support! If only, but never will a major politician do such a thing, time to just call my senator!

[QUOTE=Nikota;47813458]Illegal immigrants aren't going to be paying income tax and social security as they're often paid under the counter. That would mean they're not paying more in taxes than most people unless by most people you mean the disabled, the retired, and children. [/QUOTE] Yeah, they do pay actually. I don't know if times are changing but as far as I know, your ass isn't a valid source. [url]http://cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/ig-audit-65-million-people-active-social-security-numbers-are-112-or-older[/url] [url]http://oig.ssa.gov/sites/default/files/semiannual/SARC%20Fall%202014%20INTERACTIVE_0.pdf[/url] Businesses use the SSN's of dead people to file tax paperwork. We're talking about massive amounts of money that can't just up right disappear to be paid out "under the table". Someone would notice. However if it all checks out on paper with ssns, no one reads too far into it. Plus it's not like the government cares to close those loop holes, they get tax money from these people. Shit if you want I can throw some fucking breitbart articles and fox shit your way if you need that extra level of "proof".

[QUOTE=gufu;47813076]1) As a Legal Immigrant and Naturalized Citizen, you're full of shit. Even with what amount to a cut through the line with the Green Card, it took a decade or so for the processing to be entirely finished. People with just Visas (even if they do get that) have to deal with longer periods of time. There is also a whole bunch of problems, such as Federal lack of concept of same-sex marriage which causes further problems. 2) Senators and Reps ain't gonna change shit specifically because of shitheads like you talking how everyone should just "Get in Line" and "Stop taking our jerbs as shit cleaners and pseudo slave labor, cause any natural born American would have taken that job!".[/QUOTE] It took a decade for my mother(I was 10 at the time, and she had come to the US with a Green Card at least six years prior to my birth) because she never bothered to go through the process until I was 10/11. So I'm sorry to hear it took that long for you. Regardless, while Obama want to helps these people, my objection boils down to avoiding the the law to do it. No one should be able to subvert the law, if he wants to keep these people here, and I'm for it, the system should be changed rather then just "ignore the law because I say so." [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47813140]Scanning a license plate is useless. A [I]lot[/I] of states don't require a license, or even car insurance to purchase a vehicle. On top of that, police aren't going to go randomly scanning license plates around town - that's a severe waste of time and money that can actually be spent combating other, more direct crimes. All illegals would have to do to avoid law enforcement is drive by the laws of the road, which aren't difficult at all unless they don't understand what "YIELD" and "STOP" are in English (but are extremely easy to figure out).[/QUOTE] Which part of Jersey do you live in because down south where I work I hear plenty of stories from people about cops pulling people over just because their car is registered from the other side of the county.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;47820295] Which part of Jersey do you live in because down south where I work I hear plenty of stories from people about cops pulling people over just because their car is registered from the other side of the county.[/QUOTE] Isn't that illegal?

[QUOTE=draugur;47821103]Isn't that illegal?[/QUOTE] I would sure fucking hope so. My boss years ago when he was going through family issues normally lived a little further north of our county border so he was staying at his summer home down south. A cop pulled him other to rhetorically ask the location of where his hometown was located, shit escalated from there but since it's his story and not mine I won't divulge further.