• UK to 'concede' on island of Ireland trading rules
    22 replies, posted
[URL="https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/1204/924815-single-market-eu-negotiations/"]https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/1204/924815-single-market-eu-negotiations/[/URL] [QUOTE][B]The UK has conceded to EU negotiators that there will be no divergence of the rules covering the EU single market and customs union on the island of Ireland post Brexit, according to a draft negotiating text seen by RTÉ News. The concession, if accepted by the Irish Government, would have far reaching implications for how closely Northern Ireland remains bound to EU structures. But it remains an open question if the final text will be agreeable to both the Irish and British governments. The discussions are still ongoing amid signs that the British government is having difficulties with the latest version of the text on Ireland.[/B] A special meeting of the Cabinet is reviewing discussions with the British government this morning. According to two well-placed sources, the text that negotiators have been working on intensively over the past five days, spell out that the UK will agree that on either side of the border there would be no divergence on EU single market and customs union rules after Brexit. This has long been the Irish Government's preferred solution for avoiding a hard border. The text says that the UK has agreed that the Good Friday Agreement will be protected. The text on Ireland is part of an overall paper entitled The Joint Report from the Commission and the United Kingdom Negotiators on Progress. The paper covers all three issues of contention: the financial settlement, EU citizens rights, and the Irish border. The text, which was worked on intensively over the weekend and into the early hours of the morning, contained the following paragraph on Ireland: "In the absence of agreed solutions the UK will ensure that there continues to be no divergence from those rules of the internal market and the customs union which, now or in the future, support North South cooperation and the protection of the Good Friday Agreement." It was one of around 100 paragraphs in all on the three issues, in a text which runs from four to five pages. It is understood the text on Ireland was updated to refer to "continued regulatory alignment" on the island of Ireland.[/QUOTE] Short article and we're not out of the woods yet but this is a fantastic sign!!!!
Interesting as it is up to the UK to determine what "continued regulatory alignment" is, and the areas that covers and I'm sure there will be disputes about that.
So this meanz what? Norh irish can go between ireland and NI but everybody has to have a passport to cross over into britain out of north ireland?
If Nicola Sturgeon isn't pissed off about this, I would be surprised. Scotland want to stay in the SM (Single Market, not the sado-masochistic relationship with England), so giving this privilege to NI and not them, that would be wrong of us.
[QUOTE=Dan The Man;52945622]If Nicola Sturgeon isn't pissed off about this, I would be surprised. Scotland want to stay in the SM (Single Market, not the sado-masochistic relationship with England), so giving this privilege to NI and not them, that would be wrong of us.[/QUOTE] Scotland doesn't share a border with the EU. NI and Scotlands situations aren't comparable.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52945628]Scotland doesn't share a border with the EU. NI and Scotlands situations aren't comparable.[/QUOTE] Obviously I know that, but it absolutely IS comparable. Just because NI is more complex does not mean that there is any sensible justification for Scotland, where 63% voted to remain, being forced to leave the EU entirely.
Hopefully it stays as it is now. Two of the companies I work for (one that a family member also works at as a permanent job) does a lot of work across the border in the south, whether through trade or the services they offer. It'd have serious consequences on those companies' income (and subsequently my family's) if this regulatory hurdle wasn't resolved.
It's good to see hard Brexit getting kicked down.
Ahaha holy shit this is a nightmare for the brexiteers if it comes to pass does this mean the hard brexit border will have to be between northern ireland and the UK?
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;52945646]Ahaha holy shit this is a nightmare for the brexiteers if it comes to pass does this mean the hard brexit border will have to be between northern ireland and the UK?[/QUOTE] Thats a distinct and real possibility
Cross your fingers for a vote of no confidence in Theresa May.
[QUOTE=TheCactusman;52945665]Cross your fingers for a vote of no confidence in Theresa May.[/QUOTE] What? No. That'd be horrible. That'd throw this in the gutter and put us back to square one - would probably lead to a no deal. Much as May is horrible - can ya sort your domestic stuff later while we hammer this out?
[QUOTE=TheCactusman;52945665]Cross your fingers for a vote of no confidence in Theresa May.[/QUOTE] If she is removed from power, we would get Jacob Rees-Mogg, or even worse, so I would rather she stays, considering she is the least crazy Tory I know of except Ruth Davidson, who I actually quite like.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52945628]Scotland doesn't share a border with the EU. NI and Scotlands situations aren't comparable.[/QUOTE] Oceans? Airports? [editline]4th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=CMB Unit 01;52945633]Hopefully it stays as it is now. Two of the companies I work for (one that a family member also works at as a permanent job) does a lot of work across the border in the south, whether through trade or the services they offer. It'd have serious consequences on those companies' income (and subsequently my family's) if this regulatory hurdle wasn't resolved.[/QUOTE] If this goes on in a few years you may write that you are working in United Ireland
[QUOTE=Dan The Man;52945631]Obviously I know that, but it absolutely IS comparable. Just because NI is more complex does not mean that there is any sensible justification for Scotland, where 63% voted to remain, being forced to leave the EU entirely.[/QUOTE] You are right with the latter - it is wrong. However, the Northern Irish situation isn't super comparable because of the border, and in fact I'd dare well say this was inevitable regardless of how NI voted. The Irish border has more crossings than [I]the entirety of the EU's eastern border.[/I] It's the only land border the United Kingdom has with the EU (it has a sea border with Gibraltar, but I'm under the impression that's a much easier issue to solve). The reason this entire discussion is taking place is because it involves Ireland which is a member of the EU. Those aren't true for Scotland. Again - it should be allowed to have special rules applied. But there's a reason why the Irish border issue was one of the priorities in EU talks, and the Scotland issue wasn't.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52945667]What? No. That'd be horrible. That'd throw this in the gutter and put us back to square one - would probably lead to a no deal. Much as May is horrible - can ya sort your domestic stuff later while we hammer this out?[/QUOTE] I'm saying a general election NEEDS to be called, the Conservatives don't have a majority government and with this the DUP aren't going to side with them? This isn't domestic, this is so we can have someone in power capable of actually sorting out this situation. Brexit has no chance of being stopped while she is the Prime Minister.
[QUOTE=TheCactusman;52945678]I'm saying a general election NEEDS to be called, the Conservatives don't have a majority government and with this the DUP aren't going to side with them? This isn't domestic, this is so we can have someone in power capable of actually sorting out this situation. Brexit has no chance of being stopped while she is the Prime Minister.[/QUOTE] DUP will more than likely backdown. Arlene Foster said she was for a "sensible" Brexit yesterday - and this is a sensible Brexit position. Brexit won't be stopped by the election of Labour, by the way. Corybn's for it. It is domestic because a British General Election won't sort the situation - just like the last one didn't. It'd waste precious time that could be used for negotiating. [editline]4th December 2017[/editline] I'm no fan of May and the Conservatives and you guys need them gone as soon as possible. But at this stage I fear that you can't revoke Article 50 and stay in the EU. There's going to be huge consequences to that no matter what and I'd bet at the very least the UK would become a 'regular' EU member and lose a hell of a lot of their special privileges (they are going to lose them anyway I understand but it'd be a slap anyway). It'd make the UK look weak anyway and I think you'd see a sudden revitalisation of UKIP. Maybe I'm wrong but I honestly think everything went to shit as soon as Article 50 was called. I think at this stage the least damaging solution for the UK is to stay in the customs union, single market and EU supreme court.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52945684]DUP will more than likely backdown. Arlene Foster said she was for a "sensible" Brexit yesterday - and this is a sensible Brexit position. [B]Brexit won't be stopped by the election of Labour, by the way. Corybn's for it.[/B] It is domestic because a British General Election won't sort the situation - just like the last one didn't. It'd waste precious time that could be used for negotiating. [editline]4th December 2017[/editline] I'm no fan of May and the Conservatives and you guys need them gone as soon as possible. But at this stage I fear that you can't revoke Article 50 and stay in the EU. There's going to be huge consequences to that no matter what and I'd bet at the very least the UK would become a 'regular' EU member and lose a hell of a lot of their special privileges (they are going to lose them anyway I understand but it'd be a slap anyway). It'd make the UK look weak anyway and I think you'd see a sudden revitalisation of UKIP. Maybe I'm wrong but I honestly think everything went to shit as soon as Article 50 was called. I think at this stage the least damaging solution for the UK is to stay in the customs union, single market and EU supreme court.[/QUOTE] Brexit won't be stopped by Corbyn but I'd sure as hell trust him to do it right over May. You know that even when/if we come out of the other end with a deal it'll have that lovely Tory spin about it. I know you're Irish and you want this sorted quick and painlessly but the best way for everyone involved would be to sort our domestic issues so we can move forward with decent foundations. May has embarrassed us enough.
My fear is that another British General Election will just lead to a hung parliament or another minority government. That's a distinct possibility. I would also trust your Corbyn to do it better but having another minority government would still leave the UK looking weak. And you're going to have to deal with Tory spin either - in a situation where Corbyn gets the best possible deal there would still be consequences and you can be certain your shite newspapers would say that it's all his fault. May has embarrassed you many times but she seems to have done something sensible for once. Now I can't tell people of another country what to do and ultimately you know better than I do. But from an Irish perspective if we come this far, to have it potentially thrown away for you to have another General Election would be grotesque, unbelievable, bizarre and unprecedented. At-least right now. Wait at-least for something concrete to be agreed and put in writing. :x
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52945710]My fear is that another British General Election will just lead to a hung parliament or another minority government. That's a distinct possibility. I would also trust your Corbyn to do it better but having another minority government would still leave the UK looking weak. And you're going to have to deal with Tory spin either - in a situation where Corbyn gets the best possible deal there would still be consequences and you can be certain your shite newspapers would say that it's all his fault. May has embarrassed you many times but she seems to have done something sensible for once. Now I can't tell people of another country what to do and ultimately you know better than I do. But from an Irish perspective if we come this far, to have it potentially thrown away for you to have another General Election would be grotesque, unbelievable, bizarre and unprecedented. At-least right now. Wait at-least for something concrete to be agreed and put in writing. :x[/QUOTE] Are you ROI or NI? If the latter, do you know what's going on with the direct rule situation at the moment, as your government IS our government in that situation, for which I apologise!
No I'm from the RoI.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52945684]DUP will more than likely backdown. Arlene Foster said she was for a "sensible" Brexit yesterday - and this is a sensible Brexit position.[/QUOTE] Well, I've got bad news. [URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-northern-ireland-42227521/brexit-dup-won-t-accept-deal-that-separates-ni-from-uk[/URL] Seriously, what a dumb bitch. Fuck the DUP. [editline]...[/editline] When I saw this thread, I thought things were sorted, but oh no, far too easy for that.
Varadkar is making a statement soon. I wouldn't count things out until the DUP collapses the Westminster government.
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