Khat ban going ahead despite lack of actual evidence of significant harm - Polidicks

[QUOTE]The leafy plant khat, which acts as a stimulant when chewed, is about to become a banned class C drug in the UK. But how big a problem is it and why are ministers making it illegal? It could be a scene from a market in Mogadishu. Dozens of Somali men are throwing cardboard boxes at each other across a dusty warehouse floor. Money is exchanging hands amid all the noise and hustle. In fact, this is happening on an industrial estate near London Heathrow and by Tuesday all this activity will be illegal. That is because of what is inside the boxes that have just been delivered to this depot. It is a plant called khat or miraa or - more mystically - "Tea of the Arabs". Users chew the bitter leaves of this natural stimulant. It is supposed to make them more alert and raise energy levels, which is why supporters of khat say it is as harmless as coffee or tea.[/QUOTE] Source: [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27921832[/url] Theresa May and the Daily Mail hitsquad strike again...

If they're going to ban bloody tea they might as well go ahead and ban coffee, alcohol and tobacco.

Utterly pathetic.

It's foreign and you gotta make a problem about it without saying that foreign people are the problem. It's politicians getting around racism through legislation lol.

To rate Khat's place amongst other drugs, here's some research carried out by David Nutt and published by the Lancet: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_%28physical_harm_and_dependence%2C_NA_free_means%29.svg/380px-Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_%28physical_harm_and_dependence%2C_NA_free_means%29.svg.png[/img]

Drug legislation is all moronic in this country. And most of the rest of the world. "It alters people's state and they enjoy it and it's not alcohol. BAN IT." It has literally nothing to do with how bad for you drugs are or anything like that. It's just because they're drugs, and the people making the legislation are out of touch, and seem to see anyone who takes drugs as useless junkies, and sees them flat out as a bad thing.

[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;45173467]Drug legislation is all moronic in this country. "It alters people's state and they enjoy it and it's not alcohol. BAN IT." It has literally nothing to do with how bad for you drugs are or anything like that. It's just because they're drugs, and the people making the legislation are out of touch, and seem to see anyone who takes drugs as useless junkies, and sees them flat out as a bad thing.[/QUOTE] Honestly they should have just taxed it a bit. But oh boy, nanny states, easier to ban it than to regulate it.

Banning it is going to cause way more problems.

[QUOTE]"We took the decision based on the strong views of the Somali community, particularly the mums and wives," the minister says.[/QUOTE] Well those mothers and wives if they're so fucking judgemental now are going to call the police on people that use it. Yay criminal records all around. And that's if the black market doesn't get them first. [QUOTE]Suaad Abdiaziz is one of those supporting the ban and she has a blunt message for Somali khat-users in their cafes: "You should be taking care of your children and working - not sitting in a room chewing khat."[/QUOTE] This is just smearing. There are likely other reasons that lead people to inactivity and khat use that will not be resolved by the ban or even addressed. I seriously doubt every khat user is bone idle and as I said this is probably just a smear similar to how people presume all stoners are lazy. How is it that approaches to drugs such as these are considered effective by the government? Why the fuck can't they regulate psychoactive substances instead of trying to push them under the carpet and pretend they've solved the problem with fiddled statistics and moralising?

[QUOTE=QwertySecond;45173463]To rate Khat's place amongst other drugs, here's some research carried out by David Nutt and published by the Lancet: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_%28physical_harm_and_dependence%2C_NA_free_means%29.svg/380px-Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_%28physical_harm_and_dependence%2C_NA_free_means%29.svg.png[/img][/QUOTE] What I've always found odd about this graph is that weed is rated roughly in the same category for physical harm as steroids and benzo's. That just doesnt seem right.

[QUOTE]Dozens of Somali men are throwing cardboard boxes at each other across a dusty warehouse floor.[/QUOTE] I hope they realize the reason why people do this is because they use it to flatten boxes for making shelter, saw the same thing in haiti. The cardboard isn't that hard, so its kinda like a pillow fight with boxes.

[QUOTE=cathal6606;45173553]What I've always found odd about this graph is that weed is rated roughly in the same category for physical harm as steroids and benzo's. That just doesnt seem right.[/QUOTE] Well psychological dependency is a thing and smoking things is bad for you, but i wouldn't even put it over 1 for either axis If the scale were logarithmic, that would make more sense

I wonder where caffeine would be on that scale

I'm curious just how fast drugs would be unbanned if we just stopped letting mothers vote.

Gotta ban everything that makes humans feel good. Because it's wrong to feel good.

Seriously, as long as cannabis is illegal, so should khat be. Its pretty much like doing amphetamines, and many immigrants does this on a daily basis. Also ever seen the teeth of Khat addicts?

It isn't just mothers who are prejudiced about drugs. This sets a horrible precedent : [B]"if you shout loud enough, we'll ban it irrespective of evidence "[/B]

[QUOTE=QwertySecond;45173463]To rate Khat's place amongst other drugs, here's some research carried out by David Nutt and published by the Lancet: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_%28physical_harm_and_dependence%2C_NA_free_means%29.svg/380px-Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_%28physical_harm_and_dependence%2C_NA_free_means%29.svg.png[/img][/QUOTE] I agree with the point you're making, but it's not that clear cut. Heroin isn't good for you, but some alcohol is good for you in small amounts. Why don't they concentrate on getting those 'legal highs' banned? The crap that's in them surely must do no one any good.

Don't you guys have OTC stims? Seems really silly to ban it

We used to have a tree in the front yard of our old house that turned out to be a khat tree. One day some Africans came along and asked us if they could take some leaves, they told us it was to make tea or something. Eventually they just started nicking them when they thought we weren't at home. Apparently in Yemen 40% of the nation's water supply goes to khat production.

[QUOTE=Memobot;45173664]I agree with the point you're making, but it's not that clear cut. Heroin isn't good for you, but some alcohol is good for you in small amounts. Why don't they concentrate on getting those 'legal highs' banned? The crap that's in them surely must do no one any good.[/QUOTE] Actually I think it has been shown that even small amounts of alcohol can be harmful and a lot of those stories and studies that get mass coverage suggesting small amounts like a glass of wine "could be good for you" are often financed by big booze and other vested interests. Read this [url]http://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/mar/07/safe-level-alcohol-consumption[/url] Heroin is neither good nor bad for you when dosed correctly with clean product and paraphernalia. Most of the dangers stem from prohibition, the black market, and a lack of unbiased education including how to use safely and responsibly. That is why it is used in hospitals for pain relief - it works well and does negligible damage. Banning legal highs just causes more to take their place. A more sensible thing to do would surely be to establish a proper regulatory framework for them (and currently illicit psychoactive substances too!) wherein they are required to be properly tested etc. before being sold explicitly for human consumption.

^ Small amounts of alcohol are good for you, your body can easily process it and alcohol is such a vague category, wines and such contain many things that are good like antioxidants and they've shown that moderate red wine consumption can help improve longevity [editline]21st June 2014[/editline] Lemme rephrase that, if alcohol in any amount was very bad for you then how did civilization progress, mankind has been downing booze for centuries to both boost calories and ward off waterborne illnesses, so most people can cope with alcohol just fine, Asians have a weird problem with it but the rest of the world doesnt [editline]21st June 2014[/editline] Also heroin should never be legal, its an aweful drug that destroyed millions before it was illegal and it just eats people up, there's no way to safely use it recreationally even with pure medical grade product like was available in the early part of the 1900s

[QUOTE=QwertySecond;45173463]To rate Khat's place amongst other drugs, here's some research carried out by David Nutt and published by the Lancet: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_%28physical_harm_and_dependence%2C_NA_free_means%29.svg/380px-Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_%28physical_harm_and_dependence%2C_NA_free_means%29.svg.png[/img][/QUOTE] for some reason i have a feeling this chart is not correct because how can coke be so high.

[QUOTE=Sableye;45173756]^ Small amounts of alcohol are good for you, your body can easily process it and alcohol is such a vague category, wines and such contain many things that are good like antioxidants and they've shown that moderate red wine consumption can help improve longevity[/quote] My source challenges this because of the poor quality of studies that have identified these supposed benefits. [quote] Lemme rephrase that, if alcohol in any amount was very bad for you then how did civilization progress, mankind has been downing booze for centuries to both boost calories and ward off waterborne illnesses, so most people can cope with alcohol just fine, Asians have a weird problem with it but the rest of the world doesnt[/quote] This anecdotal presumptuous passage proves nothing and only shows your own lack of reasoning. You could replace alcohol in that sentence with anything and ask how society progressed if it was "very bad for you". Where is the evidence? From the source I provided : [quote] The supposed cardiovascular benefits of a low level of alcohol intake in some middle-aged men cannot be taken as proof that alcohol is beneficial. To do that one would need a randomised trial where part of this group drink no alcohol, others drink in small amounts and others more heavily. Until this experiment has been done we don't have proof that alcohol has health benefits. A recent example of where an epidemiological association was found not to be true when tested properly was hormone replacement therapy. Population observations suggested that HRT was beneficial for post-menopausal women, but when controlled trials were conducted it was found to cause more harm than good. • For all other diseases associated with alcohol there is no evidence of any benefit of low alcohol intake – the risks of accidents, cancer, ulcers etc rise inexorably with intake.[/quote] [quote] Also heroin should never be legal, its an aweful drug that destroyed millions before it was illegal and it just eats people up, there's no way to safely use it recreationally even with pure medical grade product like was available in the early part of the 1900s[/quote] The fact that most harms stem from its illegality still stands.

This country is so fucking backwards when it comes to drugs. The government once hired a guy to do research on cannabis, smoking, drinking ect. He then came to the scientific conclusion that smoking and drinking is more harmful than Cannabis so they fired him and disregarded his research. Notice how in that chart Cannabis is less harmful and less addictive than Tobacco and Alcohol. [QUOTE=Knoxed;45173777]for some reason i have a feeling this chart is not correct because how can coke be so high.[/QUOTE] Because like most lab made drugs, if you take too much it'll kill you or permanently harm you. Its also addictive.

[QUOTE=Midas22;45173857]This country is so fucking backwards when it comes to drugs. The government once hired a guy to do research on cannabis, smoking, drinking ect. He then came to the scientific conclusion that smoking and drinking is more harmful than Cannabis so they fired him and disregarded his research. Notice how in that chart Cannabis is less harmful and less addictive than Tobacco and Alcohol.[/QUOTE] Even the current ACMD saw sense on this one : [QUOTE]The ACMD concluded: "Beyond contradictory anecdotal statements no credible evidence has been found to show a direct causal relationship between khat and the various harms for which its consumption is claimed to be responsible."[/QUOTE] Shame Ms May and her hitsquad ignored them too

[QUOTE=Knoxed;45173777]for some reason i have a feeling this chart is not correct because how can coke be so high.[/QUOTE] Probably from all the shit that's put into it. [editline]21st June 2014[/editline] And it is an addictive and damaging drug.

The logic of this baffles me.. how can they just flat out ignore scientific evidence? FUCK YOU, IM BANNING IT ANYWAY all this will do is make criminals out of a minority community, of course they will carry on chewing Khat. God FUCKING DAMMIT this is so pointless

How kind of them to create a new market in the pusher business

420 chew tea erryday.