• Venice wants to leave Italy.
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[quote] [quote] [IMG]http://images.smh.com.au/2013/01/05/3932660/art-700646764-620x349.jpg[/IMG] ============================================================ Self-determined … Venetians celebrate the arrival of 2013, with many hoping soon they will celebrate a country of their own. Photo: AFP [/quote] [B]The EU is the perfect club for breakaway nations, writes Henry Chu in Venice. They can thrive where everyone is protected and supported.[/B] During most of the past 1200 years this watery Italian city was a nation unto itself - powerful, prosperous and proud. Now, many of its residents are convinced their best shot at the future lies in turning back the clock. A growing number of people say Venice and the surrounding region, known as the Veneto, would be much better off as an independent state again, uncoupled from Italy. They're tired of paying billions of dollars in taxes to Rome, only to see the money frittered away on other, less productive parts of the country. So thousands of Venetians signed a petition demanding a divorce from their fellow Italians. A declaration of independence was delivered - by gondola, of course - to regional officials, who are mulling over a possible referendum on breaking away. ''We say we don't need Rome,'' says Lodovico Pizzati, an economics professor who is leading the campaign. ''We have our right of self-determination.'' His dream of an independent Venice alongside other countries in the European Union may be unlikely but it's by no means unique. Secessionist movements, some serious, some quixotic, have sprouted across Europe. Scots will vote next year whether to remain part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - made up of Northern Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales. Catalonians want out of Spain. The Flemish are debating withdrawal from Belgium. Many of these movements are fuelled by economic resentment, richer regions eager to shake off poorer ones as Europe battles a lingering debt crisis and enacts draconian spending cuts. To critics, such discord makes a mockery of the EU and the harmony it is supposed to embody. But some analysts contend that, far from pointing up its failure, the various separatist movements actually attest to the EU's success in bringing comity and stability to a continent torn apart by two world wars, an achievement for which the 27-nation body last year was presented the Nobel peace prize. Under the EU's reassuring wing, it doesn't matter that an independent Scotland or Veneto would each comprise only about 5 million citizens; Denmark, a long-established club member, has about that many. Malta and Luxembourg, which not only belong to the EU but also the more exclusive group of 17 nations that uses the euro, boast only a million people between them. In many ways, the EU has created the very conditions that now make independence for disaffected regions or minorities seem like a viable option. Virtually none of the secessionists talk about their homelands going it alone, a brave new nation striking out in the world. Rather, their rallying cries of freedom for Scotland, Catalonia or Flanders are invariably followed in the same breath by a description of their aspiring country as a card-carrying member of a strong, durable European Union. They see the EU as a bulwark in an increasingly competitive, globalised world. As members of a club that wields immeasurably more clout than they would on their own, small nations can thrive without fear of getting left behind or trampled over, benefiting from the trade deals the EU wins on behalf of all members or from its common foreign policy. ''The EU changes the equation,'' says Heather Grabbe, director of the Open Society Institute in Brussels. ''If you're looking at the cost/benefit of independence, having the EU there as the guarantor of peace and stability, to some extent, and also providing regulations and rules that you might need as a small state, can tip the balance.'' Because important EU decisions are made by consensus at high-level summits in Brussels, separatists are beguiled by visions of their leaders standing with the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, or sitting next to the French President, Francois Hollande, at the negotiating table. Such egalitarianism was written into the DNA of the European Union in reaction to the bloody wars of supremacy of the 20th century. ''The EU is dressed up as a community of countries that was specifically designed to avoid the dominance of any one country,'' Grabbe said. Just how important remaining part of the EU is for breakaway regions can be seen in the trouble they encounter if membership looks in doubt. In Scotland, independence advocates have taken their biggest political and public relations hit over signs that staying in the EU won't be as automatic or simple a process as the First Minister, Alex Salmond, has consistently maintained. There are no specific legal guidelines for what happens when an EU member state splits up or a portion of an EU country secedes to become an independent nation; this is virgin territory. But recent comments from high-ranking EU officials suggest that newborn nations, even those with an EU parent, would have to apply for membership like any other aspirant country, a potentially laborious and protracted process. Countries trying to hold themselves together are likely to link arms in discouraging secessionist campaigns and in lobbying EU officials not to simplify matters for breakaway regions. Spain has an interest in seeing the bar set high for Scotland as a warning to restless Catalonians and Basques. ''In practice, it will not be that easy to split from the states to which we belonged and just say to Brussels, 'Let us in,''' says Lieven De Winter, an expert on regionalist politics at the Catholic University of Louvain, in Belgium. ''The major barrier will be the resistance of the existing member states.'' EU nations dividing Hydra-like into yet more EU nations will also put heavy pressure on the organisation's ability to function smoothly. Already, reaching agreement among 27 countries, each with veto power, is headache enough. Can the club cope with 35 or 40 members? For now, such questions don't concern Pizzati, the Venice academic who is concentrating on building support and funding for a referendum on independence from Italy. The Veneto, home to such well-known brands as Benetton and Electrolux, has flirted with separatism in the past. Independence advocates point out that modern Italy is a young creation, barely 150 years old, whereas Venice's glorious history stretches back much further. People here have long felt distinct from other Italians - they speak their own dialect - and their industriousness helps subsidise the poorer south, which is just how the politicians down in Rome like it, residents complain. ''We get taxed like the Scandinavians but our services are like Albania,'' Pizzati says. ''We are a rich region that has no political power.'' The economic grievances of areas like the Veneto and Catalonia in Spain combine with the sense of cultural difference to create a potent political cocktail. If the economy improves, the nationalist campaigns could quieten down, but the emotions they have unleashed might not dissipate so quickly, De Winter says. ''Myths are powerful tools. Once the genie is out … it's difficult to get it back in.'' [B]Los Angeles Times[/B] ============================================================ [B]Source:[/B] [URL]http://www.smh.com.au/world/venice-wants-to-leave-italy-20130105-2c9yh.html[/URL] [/quote]
wtf they shall just post a banme on the congress
venice should leave italy and become the new atlantis.
Can't they just float away? Come and join the UK, we can stick you at the end of the Thames or something
Here is a a rare picture of the leader of the movement: [IMG]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b196/Starmenclock/Vampire-queen.jpg[/IMG]
The days of romantic trading in Italian ports is dead, at least in Venezia's case.
Being one far apart from southern European knowledge: In what ways would this damage Italy? Besides losing one of their biggest attractions.
Isn't the population of Venice in terminal decline anyways?
The region being referred to in the article isn't just the city of Venice, but the Italian 'region' of Veneto, seen here: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Veneto_in_Italy.svg/382px-Veneto_in_Italy.svg.png[/img] Veneto is the 5th most populous region in Italy, totaling about 4,960,000 people. Were it a nation in the EU it would be 19th in terms of population, with more than Ireland but less than Finland. It's bordered to the east by an already autonomous region (one of five such regions) called Friuli-Venezia Giulia.
That's almost like having California declare independence.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;39112912]That's almost like having California declare independence.[/QUOTE] No it Isn't. It's like Oregon declaring independence.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;39112912]That's almost like having California declare independence.[/QUOTE] Not at all. Venice was an independent state for a vast majority of its history until napoleon conquered it, sold it to austria, and then became part of Italy (the "Kingdom of Italy" at the time).
[QUOTE=Walrus.;39113041]Not at all. Venice was an independent state for a vast majority of its history until napoleon conquered it, sold it to austria, and then became part of Italy (the "Kingdom of Italy" at the time).[/QUOTE] I know that, but having such a populous and prosperous region just break off would have the effect if it were to happen in the US.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;39113101]I know that, but having such a populous and prosperous region just break off would have the effect if it were to happen in the US.[/QUOTE] is this not only # 1 or # 2 places for Toursim for Italy
The thing is that Venice doesn't have much else going for it, what else happens? Armed forces? NATO? Does Italy allow it? What about Trieste?
[QUOTE=Zambies!;39113223]The thing is that Venice doesn't have much else going for it, what else happens? Armed forces? NATO? Does Italy allow it? What about Trieste?[/QUOTE] Small countries often have their territories looked over by neighboring countries they could trust. Italy would probably just sign a paper. It's like what Greenland and Iceland are to Denmark, they're under it's protection
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;39113463]Small countries often have their territories looked over by neighboring countries they could trust. Italy would probably just sign a paper. It's like what Greenland and Iceland are to Denmark, they're under it's protection[/QUOTE] Iceland is in NATO
From what little I know of modern Italy, I think the country would do much better with it cut in half just below Rome as the border. Maybe give Sicily a shot on its own as well. [editline]6th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Zambies!;39113475]Iceland is in NATO[/QUOTE] And up until a very short while ago, America was its standing army.
You do know that before the 1800's, it was basically like that :v:
[QUOTE=Zambies!;39113223]The thing is that Venice doesn't have much else going for it, what else happens?[/quote] Well they argue that they would be much better off financially on their own. That in itself is a great big deal in these tough times. [QUOTE=Zambies!;39113223]Armed forces?[/quote] Why would they need them? The Germans aren't planning another world war any time soon. [QUOTE=Zambies!;39113223]NATO?[/quote] Same answer as above, except replace Germany with the USSR. [QUOTE=Zambies!;39113223]Does Italy allow it?[/quote] Why not? Italy is a rather crappy nation in terms of unity. From what I understand in my brief geography classes, the northern half and the southern half aren't too fond of each other. [QUOTE=Zambies!;39113223]What about Trieste?[/QUOTE] Let it have a referendum.
Italian unification was one of war rather than something like Germany, where they chose to unite. Sardina-Piedmount basically allied with France and annexed the bickering Italian states one at a time.
[QUOTE=Walrus.;39113041]Not at all. Venice was an independent state for a vast majority of its history until napoleon conquered it, sold it to austria, and then became part of Italy (the "Kingdom of Italy" at the time).[/QUOTE] So a bit more like Florida declaring Independence.
[QUOTE=wizzerd229;39114002]So a bit more like Florida declaring Independence.[/QUOTE] Florida wasn't won it a war, I think a more appropriate term would be like the lower western states.
[QUOTE=wizzerd229;39114002]So a bit more like Florida declaring Independence.[/QUOTE] tons of clueless tourists and rich retired old people sounds about right
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;39114038]Florida wasn't won it a war, I think a more appropriate term would be like the lower western states.[/QUOTE] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seminole_Wars]Well, technically....[/url]
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;39114083][IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/Flag_of_Veneto.svg/500px-Flag_of_Veneto.svg.png[/IMG] Getting a better flag should be a requirement.[/QUOTE] How could that flag honestly be better. It has everything.
Italy as a unified nation is not it's natural state. Until the imperialistic and nationalist conquest of the lesser states by Victor Emmanuel, the nation was divided into no less than five separate countries. It hasn't been unified since the Roman Empire, and in truth the north and south Italians have such different lifestyles and agrarian or industrial preferences that it might be for the best for them to divide on peaceable terms.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;39114129]How could that flag honestly be better. It has everything.[/QUOTE] [B]EVERYTHING[/B]
party like it's 1535
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