• "outrage" over Deus Ex mankind divided "aug lives matter" promotional image
    121 replies, posted
I know that that not many like polygon, but out fo the few news sites that are reporting on this, they have the clearest article [url]http://www.polygon.com/2016/8/3/12368210/deus-ex-mankind-divided-augs-lives-matter-controversy[/url] [QUOTE]New promotional art for Deus Ex: Mankind Divided has generated controversy due to its seeming appropriation of the Black Lives Matter movement for marketing material. But Andre Vu, the franchise’s executive brand director, said on Twitter that the game’s use of the phrase "Augs Lives Matters" is just an "unfortunate coincidence." A back-and-forth with BioWare designer Manveer Heir led to Vu’s comments and other defenses of the campaign slogan. Vu chalked up widespread interpretations of "Augs Live Matters" as piggybacking on the similarly named social media movement to an out-of-context "hate wagon." "You are criticizing our integrity and the fact we try to abuse of recent event when it isn’t the case," Vu wrote in response to Heir’s criticism that the ad was "a bad look." Although Deus Ex: Mankind Divided has yet to hit retail — it’s due on Aug. 23 — and Black Lives Matter began in earnest back in 2013, Vu told Heir that the game’s fiction predates the movement. That’s a notion that Heir challenged, even considering the lengthy nature of game development, but Vu remained steadfast.[/QUOTE] the image that caused all this controversy [T]https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/JTV5QbAccK2k1x2AdFf-0EXMJCM=/0x393:5082x3252/960x540/filters:format(webp)/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/50285993/Moscow_Cities_of_2029_DXMD.0.0.jpg[/T] typical twitter drama, its just quite ironic that a game examining the problems and causes of discrimination are being labeled as racist. and this is why we dont have many games covering heavy topics
[QUOTE=da space core;50825837] typical twitter drama, its just quite ironic that a game examining the problems and causes of discrimination are being labeled as racist. and this is why we dont have many games covering heavy topics[/QUOTE] ..Thats..like wow dude. Okay so heres a fill in. There is no problem with examining problems and causes of discrimination. Do you think anyone with BLM would have a problem with hollywood doing a series of slavery and "White guilt" movies or if a video game company decided to make a game where you're some black activist fighting against the man? The problem isn't that they're examining shit, its that noone could argue they took the slogan from the black lives matter poster and guess what, Made it not about black rights anymore! Its almost as if a video game company took a slogan and what many in the usa consider to be a legitimate movement and twisted it to fit within the realm of their fictional universe instead of addressing the real issue and being a part of the real debate on human civil rights.
I like how Polygon's representation of the 'outrage' is one person's twitter conversation with the designer. Well, that might be because he's the only one complaining I guess.
[quote]"My qualm is not with a game tackling matters of segregation, civil rights issues, and apartheid, in fact I applaud games that try to tackle difficult political issues," he told Polygon. "My problem is with using marketing to push a narrative, which doesn't provide the full context of the game, as a way to sell the game, when that narrative comes across as anti-blackness, even if it's not intended to be. "I hope Eidos Montréal can begin to understand why this is a mistake and start a dialogue with black people in this industry to better understand some of the issues that this fiasco has brought to light."[/quote] I don't understand what narrative is being pushed in the marketing or this promotional image at all. There is no "narrative". This man is insane. [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50825866]..Thats..like wow dude. Okay so heres a fill in. There is no problem with examining problems and causes of discrimination. Do you think anyone with BLM would have a problem with hollywood doing a series of slavery and "White guilt" movies or if a video game company decided to make a game where you're some black activist fighting against the man? The problem isn't that they're examining shit, its that noone could argue they took the slogan from the black lives matter poster and guess what, Made it not about black rights anymore! Its almost as if a video game company took a slogan and what many in the usa consider to be a legitimate movement and twisted it to fit within the realm of their fictional universe instead of addressing the real issue and being a part of the real debate on human civil rights.[/QUOTE] Did you ever consider the fictional universe as way of addressing the issue in a different form of media and getting a wider audience to think about it? What do you expect the developers do? Stop developing their game and start debating on segregation issues in their spare time and dedicate their worktime to that too? There's no "twisting" going on here, what are you talking about?
[QUOTE=t h e;50825881]I don't understand what narrative is being pushed in the marketing or this promotional image at all. There is no "narrative". This man is insane.[/QUOTE] This is the same Polygon that wrote an article on how Lighthouses are phallic symbols of rape.
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50825866]..Thats..like wow dude. Okay so heres a fill in. There is no problem with examining problems and causes of discrimination. Do you think anyone with BLM would have a problem with hollywood doing a series of slavery and "White guilt" movies or if a video game company decided to make a game where you're some black activist fighting against the man? The problem isn't that they're examining shit, its that noone could argue they took the slogan from the black lives matter poster and guess what, Made it not about black rights anymore! Its almost as if a video game company took a slogan and what many in the usa consider to be a legitimate movement and twisted it to fit within the realm of their fictional universe instead of addressing the real issue and being a part of the real debate on human civil rights.[/QUOTE] Kinda like how the crucible wasn't a metaphor for the red scare right?
[QUOTE=Thlis;50825897]This is the same Polygon that wrote an article on how Lighthouses are phallic symbols of rape.[/QUOTE] To be fair, that wasn't a quote from Polygon but a quote from the guy criticizing the game quoted on the Polygon article.
"Polygon"...
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50825866] The problem isn't that they're examining shit, its that noone could argue they took the slogan from the black lives matter poster and guess what, Made it not about black rights anymore! Its almost as if a video game company took a slogan and what many in the usa consider to be a legitimate movement and twisted it to fit within the realm of their fictional universe instead of addressing the real issue and being a part of the real debate on human civil rights.[/QUOTE] Do you know the literary words of metaphors and what an allegory is? Yes, it is set in a fictional world and in this world people for the most part stopped giving a shit about race. That's because people with mechanical upgrades (or human downgrades on your perspective.) was a bigger point of us vs. them mentality. What do you think District 9 was about? That entire movie was pretty much screaming "Apartheid is kinda of a bad idea guys". That's pretty much the core of the Deus Ex series. But instead of aliens its augmented humans.
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50825866]..Thats..like wow dude. Okay so heres a fill in. There is no problem with examining problems and causes of discrimination. Do you think anyone with BLM would have a problem with hollywood doing a series of slavery and "White guilt" movies or if a video game company decided to make a game where you're some black activist fighting against the man? The problem isn't that they're examining shit, its that noone could argue they took the slogan from the black lives matter poster and guess what, Made it not about black rights anymore! Its almost as if a video game company took a slogan and what many in the usa consider to be a legitimate movement and twisted it to fit within the realm of their fictional universe instead of addressing the real issue and being a part of the real debate on human civil rights.[/QUOTE] You're grasping at things that aren't there. Not only that, you obviously don't understand the use of metaphor as a device.
"anti-blackness" he got that impression from some promotional art, huh...
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50825866]..Thats..like wow dude. Okay so heres a fill in. There is no problem with examining problems and causes of discrimination. Do you think anyone with BLM would have a problem with hollywood doing a series of slavery and "White guilt" movies or if a video game company decided to make a game where you're some black activist fighting against the man? The problem isn't that they're examining shit, its that noone could argue they took the slogan from the black lives matter poster and guess what, Made it not about black rights anymore! Its almost as if a video game company took a slogan and what many in the usa consider to be a legitimate movement and twisted it to fit within the realm of their fictional universe instead of addressing the real issue and being a part of the real debate on human civil rights.[/QUOTE] I think you misunderstood my post, the point of the game, or both. I have yet to play the original deus ex (its just sitting in my steam library) but I played deus ex human revolution. one of my favorite things about it was how uncomfortable it made me. that game in particular had a large focus on wealth inequality, and human rights. it really examined the gritty details of a dark future technology can hold for us if we arent careful. it did so in its own imagined world, but you would be lying if you said that you couldn't draw any parallels from the game and reality today. mankind divided is really going to focus on discrimination. they are showing the worst of it, of human nature. and its clear that they are making many parallels once more. [video=youtube;D7XCAgj0TtI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7XCAgj0TtI[/video] the "aug lives matter" may have been in bad taste, and i am not sure if its truly coincidence or not. but that shouldn't matter. here we have a form of media (a game, which arent generally known for being serious) seriously taking a look at discrimination, what will happen, the world it creates. [QUOTE]Its almost as if a video game company took a slogan and what many in the usa consider to be a legitimate movement and twisted it to fit within the realm of their fictional universe instead of addressing the real issue and being a part of the real debate on human civil rights.[/QUOTE] because you see, by taking it and twisting it into their own universe, they [B]are[/B] addressing it in a way you rarely see.
[QUOTE=Mr.Goodcat;50825919]Do you know the literary words of metaphors and what an allegory is? Yes, it is set in a fictional world and in this world people for the most part stopped giving a shit about race. That's because people with mechanical upgrades (or human downgrades on your perspective.) was a bigger point of us vs. them mentality. What do you think District 9 was about? That entire movie was pretty much screaming "Apartheid is kinda of a bad idea guys". That's pretty much the core of the Deus Ex series. But instead of aliens its augmented humans.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=t h e;50825881]I don't understand what narrative is being pushed in the marketing or this promotional image at all. There is no "narrative". This man is insane. [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] Did you ever consider the fictional universe as way of addressing the issue in a different form of media and getting a wider audience to think about it? What do you expect the developers do? Stop developing their game and start debating on segregation issues in their spare time and dedicate their worktime to that too? There's no "twisting" going on here, what are you talking about?[/QUOTE] All of those works addressed those themes with their work and ideas and deus ex could do that without having to resort to ripping off the name of a entire civil rights movement. I don't see how literally replacing one word could be considered subtle enough to be an allegory or a metaphor unless you claim black people are so closely related to machines that the game is specifically talking about black people and black rights every time they use the words aug or aug rights and this totally isn't a out of place poster shoehorned in to make them seem like their just fucking basic human rights theme that has been going on since the games began way before the blm movement is actually a black rights theme.
and yes, I understand that these people who criticize those who point out discriminatory things as discriminatory are small minorities, whether they be part of BLM, some other group, or just independent. unfortunately they are a loud minority. these are the kind of people who get "to kill a mockingbird" banned in public schools. A book about blacks being discriminated against in a racist society,gets banned because its deemed "racist, uncomfortable, ..." Pointing out things wrong with society should not be disallowed, it should be encouraged of all things. making you feel uncomfortable isnt an excuse, that pit in your stomach you feel as you read/watch/play these things is your morals speaking, a lesson being gained. Honestly trying to bury our history, even the worst of it, is terrible. by forgetting the worst of our histories we only doom ourselves to repeat them. And yes I know the polygon piece is a bit sensationalized, its just one game dev making an argument with the deus ex design team. I wasn't going to post about it until I saw some of my friends debating rather poorly on my facebook about this, and I decided to bring it here just to see what facepunch thinks.
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50825960]All of those works addressed those themes with their work and ideas and deus ex could do that without having to resort to ripping off the name of a entire civil rights movement. I don't see how literally replacing one word could be considered subtle enough to be an allegory or a metaphor unless you claim black people are so closely related to machines that the game is specifically talking about black people and black rights every time they use the words aug or aug rights and this totally isn't a out of place poster shoehorned in to make them seem like their just fucking basic human rights theme that has been going on since the games began way before the blm movement is actually a black rights theme.[/QUOTE] The whole point of them making it such an obvious reference to Black Lives Matter is so that the player connects to the story more by relating the game's events to events currently taking place in the player's life. Considering the in-game protest group exists as a plot device to convey how egregious the segregation and abuse of augs is, I would expect you to praise the reference instead of having a fit that they dared to reference a political group in a video game.
Here's how I see it: If you have to go out of your way to be offended by something, it wasn't offensive It's a game with decent lore and story with deeply rooted discrimination being almost the center of it. Using what's going on in the real world about the same issues is okay. It's not like it's making a joke or light of it. And if you think it is, then go ahead. You can think whatever you want. You shouldn't get your way though just because you don't like it
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50825960]All of those works addressed those themes with their work and ideas and deus ex could do that without having to resort to ripping off the name of a entire civil rights movement. I don't see how literally replacing one word could be considered subtle enough to be an allegory or a metaphor unless you claim black people are so closely related to machines that the game is specifically talking about black people and black rights every time they use the words aug or aug rights and this totally isn't a out of place poster shoehorned in to make them seem like their just fucking basic human rights theme that has been going on since the games began way before the blm movement is actually a black rights theme.[/QUOTE] no one is saying that black people are cyborgs. think of it this way, those folks who ignore #blacklivesmatter with just #alllivesmatter will play this game and suddenly be thrust into a whole new perspective on why such mottos became a thing to begin with. this isnt about racism or augmentation, its about discrimination in general. and i wouldnt call it shoehorned. the game isnt out yet, but of all the media, videos, and pictures put out of this game, we get a corner of a picture with "aug lives matter" Honestly, games rarely approach such difficult subjects like this. I really am happy that Square Enix is pushing forth with this and trying their best
[QUOTE=srobins;50825976]The whole point of them making it such an obvious reference to Black Lives Matter is so that the player connects to the story more by relating the game's events to events currently taking place in the player's life. Considering the in-game protest group exists as a plot device to convey how egregious the segregation and abuse of augs is, I would expect you to praise the reference instead of having a fit that they dared to reference a political group in a video game.[/QUOTE] THey didn't reference the group, They changed the name by one word and slapped it on a poster in nowhere. People don't want to see the black rights movement and black lives matter turned into anything, They don't want a discussion about augs and aug rights in a world very similair to ours they want the discussion about black rights movements now. The whole point of referencing society in fiction whether it be a play,novel, tv, move, anything is to spur debate and get stuff done. But after some point the talking is hurting more then its helping, we don't need to stand around all day discussing the issue in metaphors and allegories, we need to take a moment to realize that we can just leave the game as a game and start actually making a difference.
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50825960]All of those works addressed those themes with their work and ideas and deus ex could do that without having to resort to ripping off the name of a entire civil rights movement. I don't see how literally replacing one word could be considered subtle enough to be an allegory or a metaphor unless you claim black people are so closely related to machines that the game is specifically talking about black people and black rights every time they use the words aug or aug rights and this totally isn't a out of place poster shoehorned in to make them seem like their just fucking basic human rights theme that has been going on since the games began way before the blm movement is actually a black rights theme.[/QUOTE] Since when does allegory have to be subtle? For example, a common trope in fantasy is for nonhumans (typically elves and dwarves) to be treated as "lesser than" or as an "other," in what is usually a none-too-subtle allegory for modern day racism. Games, films, and books have been doing this for a long, long time and this seems like it's no different.
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50826009]we need to take a moment to realize that we can just leave the game as a game and start actually making a difference.[/QUOTE] it is this line of thinking that gets us stuck with "Call of Duty 5 HD Zombies remix 3D" instead of anything substantial
So is this thread like what happens when you combine video game controversy threads with Black Lives Matter threads or what?
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50826009]we need to take a moment to realize that we can just leave the game as a game and start actually making a difference.[/QUOTE] yes, so then why are you complaining about this instead of making a difference? [editline]3rd August 2016[/editline] just leave the game as it is, just a game, and go out and discuss and make a difference
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50826009]THey didn't reference the group, They changed the name by one word and slapped it on a poster in nowhere. People don't want to see the black rights movement and black lives matter turned into anything, [B]They don't want a discussion about augs and aug rights in a world very similair to ours they want the discussion about black rights movements now[/B]. The whole point of referencing society in fiction whether it be a play,novel, tv, move, anything is to spur debate and get stuff done. But after some point the talking is hurting more then its helping, we don't need to stand around all day discussing the issue in metaphors and allegories, we need to take a moment to realize that we can just leave the game as a game and start actually making a difference.[/QUOTE] Okay, then they should probably uninstall the game and go to a rally. I don't understand, are you saying that from now on, all media that depicts protest needs to accurately represent the BLM platform? The point of referencing society in fiction isn't always to spur real-life debate, actually.. In fact, very, very frequently, it's used for philosophical purposes, or even just as a plot device since works of fiction typically exist for entertainment.
the creator of mankind divided and wrote the game is a black game dev who wrote with his friend a asian game dev this concept art and the other term mechanical arpartheid were created around 3-4 years ago before blm was even a thing crossposting from other thread when the mechanical arpartheid term was bitched about [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PFaNrlh.png[/IMG] people need to stop saying to put politics into gaming and then complains when someone actually does because they dont agree with it.
[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;50826009]THey didn't reference the group, They changed the name by one word and slapped it on a poster in nowhere. People don't want to see the black rights movement and black lives matter turned into anything, They don't want a discussion about augs and aug rights in a world very similair to ours they want the discussion about black rights movements now. The whole point of referencing society in fiction whether it be a play,novel, tv, move, anything is to spur debate and get stuff done. But after some point the talking is hurting more then its helping, we don't need to stand around all day discussing the issue in metaphors and allegories, we need to take a moment to realize that we can just leave the game as a game and start actually making a difference.[/QUOTE] People have been using fictional settings and characters for centuries to discuss social issues. There are lot of examples in poetry where the monarchy, clergy, the bourgeosie and the lower class were all represented by different types of animals, whether they had the capability to talk or not, and the short stories built around them were usually a metaphor for social injustices directly affecting the world at the time. The current situation isn't any different, but instead of acknowledging and supporting the shared message, you instead go: "they took our movement!!!" and try to shut those down who are at their core supporting you.
Can we all just stop perpetuating the outrage culture that the media intentionally exacerbates for money.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;50826213]Can we all just stop perpetuating the outrage culture that the media intentionally exacerbates for money.[/QUOTE] Can we just tell them all to shut the fuck up, already. Like, collectively, in the thousands, just bombard them 24/7 with nothing but repeat "shut the fuck up already." [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] Im so fatigued having to see all this outrage bullshit everywhere all the time with everything, like god damn.
"Science fiction is trying to find alternative ways of looking at realities." - Iain Banks I bet people would be taking it so much more seriously as genuine political commentary if it wasn't a video game, and was a film or something.
Man I don't really have any thoughts one way or another about the phrase actually being there but fuck if that isn't the most heavy handed symbolism I've ever seen in my life
[QUOTE=Mr.Goodcat;50825919]Do you know the literary words of metaphors and what an allegory is? Yes, it is set in a fictional world and in this world people for the most part stopped giving a shit about race. That's because people with mechanical upgrades (or human downgrades on your perspective.) was a bigger point of us vs. them mentality. What do you think District 9 was about? That entire movie was pretty much screaming "Apartheid is kinda of a bad idea guys". That's pretty much the core of the Deus Ex series. But instead of aliens its augmented humans.[/QUOTE] If I remember correctly D9 was actually about a more current South African issue, namely it's treatment and attitude towards refugees and immigrants from the rest of Africa. And they were pretty blunt about it, too. The film was shot in an actual refugee camp that like in the movie was recently cleared out by the government. And like in the movie many of the refugees refused to go and were still around when the movie was being shot. In fact in the original short [URL="https://vimeo.com/5398654"]Alive in Joburg[/URL] the interviews with people about the alien menace were actually with real people talking about refugees.
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