• Should Music and other Torture Lite Devices Be Removed From Gitmo?
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Posting this in here instead of Sensationalist, since it's somewhat old news: [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/19/usa.guantanamo[/url] Some excerpts: [quote]It is not clear whether God would approve of the current US playlist: the number one slot is taken by the death metal band Deicide, whose track Fuck Your God is played at prisoners in Iraq. That said, the proponents of torture by music doubtless think they have come a long way since the early 1990s, when the FBI blasted loud music at the Branch Davidians during the Waco siege in Texas. The repertoire then included Sing-Along With Mitch Miller Christmas carols, an Andy Williams album and These Boots Are Made for Walking by Nancy Sinatra. However unpleasant it may be to have such tunes blasted at your compound, bringing the music into an enclosed interrogation cell was a quantum leap in psyops. Nonetheless, in the strange lexicon of 21st-century America, the US military calls this "torture lite". Torture is apparently OK if it is not too "heavy". Metallica's Enter Sandman has been played at cacophonous levels for hours on end in Guantánamo Bay and at a detention centre on the Iraqi-Syrian border. One Iraqi prisoner said it was done at "an unidentified location called 'the disco'". [/quote] [quote]Ultimately, though, the most overused torture song is I Love You by Barney the Purple Dinosaur. On the face of it, the lyrics may seem deeply inappropriate: "I love you, you love me - we're a happy family./With a great big hug and a kiss from me to you,/Won't you say you love me too?", but anyone whose child watches the television programme will know how grating it is. In the torture trade, this is called "futility music", designed to convince the prisoner of the futility of maintaining his position. [/quote] [quote]There is a clear reluctance within the record industry to discuss the use of music as torture. The Guardian attempted to contact artists whose songs have reportedly been used by the US military in detainment camps - a diverse group that includes metal bands Metallica, AC/DC, Drowning Pool and Deicide, hip-hop superstar Eminem, Bruce Springsteen, British singer-songwriter David Gray and the makers of children's TV favourite Barney the Dinosaur. In most cases, inquiries were met with a polite but firm "no comment" from management and PR representatives, or calls were simply not returned. "It's an issue that no one wants to deal with," says David Gray, one of the few artists willing to speak about the subject. "It's shocking that there isn't more of an outcry. I'd gladly sign up to a petition that says don't use my music, but it seems to be missing the point a bit." Gray's music became associated with the torture debate after Haj Ali, the hooded man in the notorious Abu Ghraib photographs, told of being stripped, handcuffed and forced to listen to a looped sample of Babylon, at a volume so high he feared that his head would burst. "The moral niceties of whether they're using my song or not are totally irrelevant," says Gray. "We are thinking below the level of the people we're supposed to oppose, and it goes against our entire history and everything we claim to represent. It's disgusting, really. Anything that draws attention to the scale of the horror and how low we've sunk is a good thing."[/quote] Essentially, the Pentagon views the use of ear-splitting music as "torture lite;" something that is torturous but not nearly as heavy as other methods. Is this still okay for the CIA to use? Why aren't musicians and artists speaking out against this use of music, when many of these artists are against the War on Terror? Should the US outlaw the use of music for torture sessions?
Sound used as a torture device isn't new, but playing actual music isn't actually torture at all. sorry to link this, don't watch it if you're easily frightened (it's from the Guinea Pig movie): [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXFkPtZqM_0[/url] Unless you think listening to Metallica or ACDC is torture, that's up to you.
[QUOTE=AK'z;33341811]but playing actual music isn't actually torture at all.[/QUOTE] playing music at extreme sound levels and to no end, is can't even imagine what I would do if someone locked me in a small cell and blasted even my favorite tunes in my ears 24/7
cruel and unusual punishment.
[QUOTE=TheCombine;33342346]playing music at extreme sound levels and to no end, is can't even imagine what I would do if someone locked me in a small cell and blasted even my favorite tunes in my ears 24/7[/QUOTE] Well I listen to music for hours on end at times, so it's not really torture unless the sound is actually at a level where it will damage your ear drums.
[QUOTE=AK'z;33342371]Well I listen to music for hours on end at times, so it's not really torture unless the sound is actually at a level where it will damage your ear drums.[/QUOTE] i doubt you do listen like this [quote]Gray's music became associated with the torture debate after Haj Ali, the hooded man in the notorious Abu Ghraib photographs, told of being stripped, handcuffed and forced to listen to a looped sample of Babylon, at a volume so high he feared that his head would burst. [/quote] against your will too
[QUOTE=pie_is_good;33342378]i doubt you do listen like this against your will too[/QUOTE] Well no, I don't torture myself at high volume. As I said, if the music is trying to blow their ear drums then it's definitely cruel and barbaric.
[QUOTE=AK'z;33342371]Well I listen to music for hours on end at times, so it's not really torture unless the sound is actually at a level where it will damage your ear drums.[/QUOTE] Imagine playing it at painfully-high levels, with "annoying" sounds constantly drumming throughout your head for practically 24/7. It's like if you listened to "I Love You" non-stop at megaphone level for a full day. [editline]19th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=AK'z;33342394]Well no, I don't torture myself at high volume. As I said, if the music is trying to blow their ear drums then it's definitely cruel and barbaric.[/QUOTE] Doesn't necessarily have to be loud to be cruel. Hearing a screeching sound on a chalkboard isn't always loud, but it sure is cruel to repeatedly hear it. Hearing a baby cry 24/7 isn't loud, but it sure is cruel to many (actually, in the article it states that hearing a baby cry is causes us to become upset. We're hard-wired to be uncomfortable from it).
This is some of the shit they're blasting at the prisoners [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qed2-hwneA[/media] Now the majority of these prisoners are from Iraq and Afghanistan where they have nothing that compares to black metal at all. Imagine how scared shitless they are. So surely it's an effective technique.
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;33347218]This is some of the shit they're blasting at the prisoners [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qed2-hwneA[/media] Now the majority of these prisoners are from Iraq and Afghanistan where they have nothing that compares to black metal at all. Imagine how scared shitless they are. So surely it's an effective technique.[/QUOTE] Jesus christ, listening to this with minimal volume I consider being torture.
Like removing it will do anything. If you want to torture someone with high volumes, any sound will do.
[QUOTE=AK'z;33341811]Sound used as a torture device isn't new, but playing actual music isn't actually torture at all. sorry to link this, don't watch it if you're easily frightened (it's from the Guinea Pig movie): [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXFkPtZqM_0[/url] Unless you think listening to Metallica or ACDC is torture, that's up to you.[/QUOTE] It's not so much the music itself but the environment they are placed in. Think of Chinese water torture; just dripping a little on someone's head won't do anything but continued use of it against their will, in an already awkward position compounds it a hell of a lot. Music can obviously evoke emotional responses, being put in a different mindset changes that response. For Metal, the common aggressive or passionate response doesn't work well as you are a prisoner in a dark cell with nowhere to direct those feelings except inward. For Barney, the friendly or passive response conflicts with knowing you are being held by hostiles and you have to hold out against them messing them up terribly.
how about instead of torturing these guys endlessly we all take a different approach make things calm for once (still in a captive environment obviously), sit down with them and try to figure out why exactly these things happen. it would do a lot more good than just screwing with their minds and killing them from the inside. it's obvious that this shit is meant with bad intentions, and how much 'counter-intelligence' has the US actually achieved from these guys that couldn't be done in a cheaper, more sane method?
No. There is no "torture-lite". If you think torture always involves bits getting cut off you, being smacked in the face, held underwater etc. then you're sorely mistaken. [editline]22nd November 2011[/editline] To clarify, yes it's torture, no they shouldn't fucking do it.
[QUOTE=Reimu;33341772]Essentially, the Pentagon views the use of ear-splitting music as "torture lite;" something that is torturous but not nearly as heavy as other methods. Is this still okay for the CIA to use? Why aren't musicians and artists speaking out against this use of music, when many of these artists are against the War on Terror? Should the US outlaw the use of music for torture sessions?[/QUOTE] This is old, but yeah, Trent Reznor spoke out against it [url]http://ninblogs.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/regarding-nin-music-used-at-guantanamo-bay-for-torture/[/url] dunno of any others that did to be honest, and I've heard nothing about it since then.
[QUOTE=Turnips5;33387306]No. There is no "torture-lite". If you think torture always involves bits getting cut off you, being smacked in the face, held underwater etc. then you're sorely mistaken. [editline]22nd November 2011[/editline] To clarify, yes it's torture, no they shouldn't fucking do it.[/QUOTE] What isn't torture then? I'm sure taking someone away from their family could also be considered torture.
If they really want to torture the prisoners,they should play endless Nyan Cat at a high volume right next to their heads.It's an awesome meme,but after a couple minutes of that,it feels like burning hell in your ears. That being said,here is what I have to say about the issue; In my opinion,how bad musical torture is depends,of course,on to what degree or length the music is.The death metal song mentioned earlier,apparently with the name Fuck Your God,is definetely a horrible song to any degree and is especially excessive when they use it the way they do when torturing Gitmo prisoners. The Barney song,meanwhile,while almost as annoying,I guess is okay as a form of torture.It's a combination of irritation,moderate psychological torment,and eventually some pain if it goes on for a while.Generally speaking,however,it's a lot better than many alternative torture songs. (This is just a starting statement,meant for people to build on to it)
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;33347218]This is some of the shit they're blasting at the prisoners [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qed2-hwneA[/media] Now the majority of these prisoners are from Iraq and Afghanistan where they have nothing that compares to black metal at all. Imagine how scared shitless they are. So surely it's an effective technique.[/QUOTE] WURGHWURGHWURGHWURGHWURGHWURGHWURGH
Yes, remove it. The US agreed to not torture anybody.
[QUOTE=AK'z;33342394]Well no, I don't torture myself at high volume. As I said, if the music is trying to blow their ear drums then it's definitely cruel and barbaric.[/QUOTE] And that's what they do. So, moving on.
If you outlawed music they'd just use other noises.
[url]http://current.com/entertainment/music/89613394_trent-reznor-nine-inch-nails-speaks-out-about-his-music-being-used-at-guantanamo-bay.htm[/url] Trent Reznor, my idol, was totally unhappy about hearing that the music that he worked hard on and was his method of expressing himself was used as torture. I would totally be pissed off if someone decided, "lol, let's use wauterboi's music to hurt someone's ears," because: 1.) That's cruel and unusual punishment to ear-rape people. 2.) What are you saying about my music?
is the pentagon calling it "torture-lite" now? i guess that's a step in the right direction from "enhanced interrogation"
[QUOTE=wauterboi;33398474][url]http://current.com/entertainment/music/89613394_trent-reznor-nine-inch-nails-speaks-out-about-his-music-being-used-at-guantanamo-bay.htm[/url] Trent Reznor, my idol, was totally unhappy about hearing that the music that he worked hard on and was his method of expressing himself was used as torture. I would totally be pissed off if someone decided, "lol, let's use wauterboi's music to hurt someone's ears," because: 1.) That's cruel and unusual punishment to ear-rape people. 2.) What are you saying about my music?[/QUOTE] But you're music is torture already. [sp]couldn't help it, sorry, -love, mateo[/sp] Isn't it kind of agreed upon that any kind of torture is "cruel and unusual"? Music is just another one. As for music itself, I doubt them just playing a song is enough to actually cause someone discomfort, they can easily get used to it. By using it as torture, it's probably at extreme levels. But as wauterboi said, it'd probably deeply bother an artist if they found out that something they created was used as a torture device.
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;33347218]This is some of the shit they're blasting at the prisoners [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qed2-hwneA[/media] Now the majority of these prisoners are from Iraq and Afghanistan where they have nothing that compares to black metal at all. Imagine how scared shitless they are. So surely it's an effective technique.[/QUOTE] Hah I actually like that. And its not black metal man :v:
BOOM BOODOOMBOOM BOOM BOODOOMBOOM SUPER BASS x100000000000000db. Also, I think all together anyone outside of Gitmo shouldn't be involved [b]at all[/b] with the torture. At all.
Regardless of your opinion on whether music should be used as a form of torture, I find it pretty hilarious that they blast Barney's ironic lyrics at the detainees.
[QUOTE=AK'z;33342371]Well I listen to music for hours on end at times, so it's not really torture unless the sound is actually at a level where it will damage your ear drums.[/QUOTE] Are you literally high? It is fucking psychological torture, everything that goes on in Gitmo is.
I like how it says torture is okay if it's not to heavy. No, that's not how torture works. Torture is bad, it's arguable if it is necessary or okay. Anyway. Sound torture must be horrible, I would hate fro them to like play static and stuff. But Music is a completely different story in my opinion. Even if it's crappy music.
[QUOTE=Nitoliskus;33399459]I like how it says torture is okay if it's not to heavy. No, that's not how torture works. Torture is bad, it's arguable if it is necessary or okay. Anyway. Sound torture must be horrible, I would hate fro them to like play static and stuff. But Music is a completely different story in my opinion. Even if it's crappy music.[/QUOTE] But static is so relaxing! I got to sleep listening to static!
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