Obese people and smokers 'banned from routine surgery' as NHS attempts to cut spending costs

[Perrine]

[quote]Smokers and obese people will be denied surgery on the NHS by cash-strapped hospitals trying to save money, senior health officials have warned.

Vale of York Care Commissioning Group has announced it will make people wait up to a year for non-essential surgery if they are overweight, until their body mass index (BMI) drops to 30. The group said the decision has been made as “the best way of achieving maximum value from the limited resources available”.

The Royal College of Surgeons has described the decision as “the most severe the modern NHS has ever seen” amid concerns the NHS’ funding crisis is seriously impeding its ability to function.

Chris Hopson, head of NHS Providers, told The Daily Telegraph: “I think we are going to see more and more decisions like this. It’s the only way providers are going to be able to balance their books, and in a way you have to applaud their honesty.

“You can see why they’re doing this – the service is bursting at the seams.”

Luton Care Commissioning Group and East and North Hertfordshire also require a patient to have a BMI of 30 or lower in order to qualify for an operation. Others have reportedly refused surgery to smokers, requiring them to quit before operations can go ahead.

Earlier this year, research by the Royal College of Surgeons found a third of local NHS health trusts put restrictions on access to surgery – contrary to official guidance on how patients should be treated. [/quote]
[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/obese-people-and-smokers-banned-from-routine-surgery-as-nhs-attempts-to-cut-spending-costs-a7223731.html[/url]

[HazzaHardie]

I can see why they're doing this but still doesn't really seem very fair

[Curls]

what if you're obese because of thyroid issues?

[Sgman91]

Smokers and obese people cost less, overall, than healthy people because they live shorter lives.

[Bee York]

how much money do they even cost in the first place? I can't imagine it'd save much.

[.𓃉𓁿𓂎𓁿𓃉.]

[QUOTE=sgman91;50995391]Smokers and obese people cost less, overall, than healthy people because they live shorter lives.[/QUOTE]

and now their lives will be even shorter

[Morgen]

The National NHS is already intervening and the group has agreed to "rethink the move" (yeah I know national national...)
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-37265752[/url]

[Helix Snake]

[QUOTE=FurrehFaux;50995394]how much money do they even cost in the first place? I can't imagine it'd save much.[/QUOTE]

It's not about saving money, it's about making the NHS as bad as possible so that they can eventually justify getting rid of it entirely in favor of a privatized system.

[Saxon]

This sounds terrible

[GordonZombie]

No matter what way you look at it this is still a policy introduced because of the cunts in government at the moment. Shame people like Theresa May or Jeremy Hunt can't be denied surgery on the basis that they're too full of shit to operate on. Not that they deserve healthcare to begin with.

[Loopoo]

I dunno why everyone is against this. The main demographic who put a lot of strain on the NHS are obese people and smokers. Why should everyone else suffer dealing with a struggling NHS because of people who make their own personal choices?

I think it's bullshit an obese person can go in and get a gastric band or waste loads of tax-payers money getting surgery for shit like heart bypasses, or smokers going in to get operations to ease problems they've caused themselves (I'm a smoker myself and I'd feel bad using the NHS services for a problem I knew I damn well caused myself).

Let the NHS devote their time and effort helping people who really need it and are suffering through no fault of their own.

[Killer900]

Cash-strapped hospitals? But I thought that 350 million pounds were going to go to the NHS for the UK leaving the EU.

[Sgman91]

[QUOTE=loopoo;50995639]I dunno why everyone is against this. The main demographic who put a lot of strain on the NHS are obese people and smokers. Why should everyone else suffer dealing with a struggling NHS because of people who make their own personal choices?

I think it's bullshit an obese person can go in and get a gastric band or waste loads of tax-payers money getting surgery for shit like heart bypasses, or smokers going in to get operations to ease problems they've caused themselves (I'm a smoker myself and I'd feel bad using the NHS services for a problem I knew I damn well caused myself).

Let the NHS devote their time and effort helping people who really need it and are suffering through no fault of their own.[/QUOTE]

Like I said earlier, obese people and smokers actually cost less than fit, healthy, people. They die earliest and don't live for a long time with expensive conditions like alzheimer's. They also have less end of life care, the most expensive part of life when it comes to healthcare. ([URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?_r=0[/URL])

[Robbobobobin]

As if we needed any more proof that Jeremy Hunt was the fucking antichrist.

[NiandraLades]

[quote]Luton Care Commissioning Group and East and North Hertfordshire also require a patient to have a BMI of 30 or lower in order to qualify for an operation.[/quote]

Whatever your opinion, I feel like this is a very important thing to take note of - I assume everyone already knows how it's calculated and why it could potentially cause issues for people who are muscular

[Coffee]

Hey maybe if they shrunk down their bloated HR departments they'd have more money to spend on real stuff.

[carcarcargo]

[QUOTE=NiandraLades;50995692]Whatever your opinion, I feel like this is a very important thing to take note of - I assume everyone already knows how it's calculated and why it could potentially cause issues for people who are muscular[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure doctors can tell the difference between a muscular person and a fat person. I mean realistically I doubt many muscular people have a BMI of 30 any way.

[Loopoo]

[QUOTE=sgman91;50995658]Like I said earlier, obese people and smokers actually cost less than fit, healthy, people. They die earliest and don't live for a long time with expensive conditions like alzheimer's. They also have less end of life care, the most expensive part of life when it comes to healthcare. ([URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?_r=0[/URL])[/QUOTE]

Pretty sure it's not that simple, dude? Yeah, they may die younger, but they have a whole host of problems that a regular person wouldn't. Intensive care when a smoker contracts lung / throat / mouth / whatever cancer.

A normal person would occasionally need to get shit done, and maybe towards the end of their life would pose a bit of a timesink to the NHS, but nothing compared to how badly obese and smokers drain NHS time and money.

[MaximLaHaxim]

[QUOTE=loopoo;50995639]I dunno why everyone is against this. The main demographic who put a lot of strain on the NHS are obese people and smokers. Why should everyone else suffer dealing with a struggling NHS because of people who make their own personal choices?

I think it's bullshit an obese person can go in and get a gastric band or waste loads of tax-payers money getting surgery for shit like heart bypasses, or smokers going in to get operations to ease problems they've caused themselves (I'm a smoker myself and I'd feel bad using the NHS services for a problem I knew I damn well caused myself).

Let the NHS devote their time and effort helping people who really need it and are suffering through no fault of their own.[/QUOTE]

So what if they caused it themselves? It's still very serious and life-threatening.

[Dr.Northy]

Not taking into account the variety of medical issues an obese person or even smokers could have, that is completely unrelated to their weight?

[Noss]

[QUOTE=loopoo;50995639]I dunno why everyone is against this. The main demographic who put a lot of strain on the NHS are obese people and smokers. Why should everyone else suffer dealing with a struggling NHS because of people who make their own personal choices?

I think it's bullshit an obese person can go in and get a gastric band or waste loads of tax-payers money getting surgery for shit like heart bypasses, or smokers going in to get operations to ease problems they've caused themselves (I'm a smoker myself and I'd feel bad using the NHS services for a problem I knew I damn well caused myself).

Let the NHS devote their time and effort helping people who really need it and are suffering through no fault of their own.[/QUOTE]

I used to think similarly, but then I thought what happens if you extend the ban to all injuries/illnesses that are a result of people bringing it upon themselves? Should you make people who participate in extreme sports pay the bill for any injuries that result from their activities?

I think preventing certain people from qualifying for national healthcare is a dangerous path to go on.

[Sableye]

hasnt BMI been discredited though. like a quick search and even the CDC doesnt exactly recomend using it for critical decision making because it doesnt account for any differences between people that arent related to diet such as natural muscle mass and weight

also this only leads to further costs. look at the US, we kept unhealthy people off insurance now they can get insurance and suddenly insurance costs are spiking because theyre actually seeing physicians for the first time in sometimes decades

[Raidyr]

[QUOTE=J!NX;50995371]what if you're obese because of thyroid issues?[/QUOTE]

Then stop eating thyroids.

[carcarcargo]

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50995774]So what if they caused it themselves? It's still very serious and life-threatening.[/QUOTE]

They still get treatment for emergencies, they're just not being allowed minor nonessential operations

[Morgen]

[QUOTE=loopoo;50995639]I dunno why everyone is against this. The main demographic who put a lot of strain on the NHS are obese people and smokers. Why should everyone else suffer dealing with a struggling NHS because of people who make their own personal choices?

I think it's bullshit an obese person can go in and get a gastric band or waste loads of tax-payers money getting surgery for shit like heart bypasses, or smokers going in to get operations to ease problems they've caused themselves (I'm a smoker myself and I'd feel bad using the NHS services for a problem I knew I damn well caused myself).

Let the NHS devote their time and effort helping people who really need it and are suffering through no fault of their own.[/QUOTE]

This logic leads you down a slippery slope and it's fucking awful. This was only applied to non-life threatening conditions, unlike the ones you listed.

[Sgman91]

[QUOTE=loopoo;50995763]Pretty sure it's not that simple, dude? Yeah, they may die younger, but they have a whole host of problems that a regular person wouldn't. Intensive care when a smoker contracts lung / throat / mouth / whatever cancer.

A normal person would occasionally need to get shit done, and maybe towards the end of their life would pose a bit of a timesink to the NHS, but nothing compared to how badly obese and smokers drain NHS time and money.[/QUOTE]

Did you read the link? The overall cost is lower. Obese people and smokers cost less overall for some of the reasons that I gave. It's just a fact, not some crazy extreme claim.

[Scot]

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50995774]So what if they caused it themselves? It's still very serious and life-threatening.[/QUOTE]

you made your bed now lie in it

And it's not like they're being left to die, they are just put lower down on the waiting list.

[carcarcargo]

[QUOTE=sgman91;50995828]Did you read the link? The overall cost is lower. Obese people and smokers cost less overall for some of the reasons that I gave. It's just a fact, not some crazy extreme claim.[/QUOTE]

The link you posted isn't clear cut, I've seen other studies suggesting the opposite. Particularly when you consider people who live longer pay more taxes overall, whereas smokers tend to cost a lot more in a shorter period of time.

[HumanAbyss]

[QUOTE=Scot;50995845]you made your bed now lie in it

And it's not like they're being left to die, they are just put lower down on the waiting list.[/QUOTE]

should people who speed on the highway and have an accident be covered? They made their beds, now die in them, right?

[editline]3rd September 2016[/editline]

If you're okay with this being revoked for these people, [B]than you must logically be okay with anyone who willfully puts themselves at harms risk also having it revoked.[/B]

[Scot]

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50995856]should people who speed on the highway and have an accident be covered? They made their beds, now die in them, right?

[editline]3rd September 2016[/editline]

If you're okay with this being revoked for these people, [B]than you must logically be okay with anyone who willfully puts themselves at harms risk also having it revoked.[/B][/QUOTE]

The difference is that would be classed as an emergency.