Crimean Parliament votes to join Russian Federation - Polidicks

[quote=BBC][B]MPs in the southern Ukrainian region of Crimea have voted to become part of the Russian Federation. [/B]Parliament said the decision would be put to the Crimean people for their verdict in a referendum on 16 March. A government minister in Kiev said they believe it would be unconstitutional for Crimea to join Russia. Crimea, a region whose population is mostly ethnic Russian, has been at the centre of tensions following the fall of Ukraine's pro-Moscow president. Pro-Russian and Russian forces have been in de facto control of the peninsula, which already enjoys a degree of autonomy from Kiev, for several days. The announcement from Crimea's parliament comes as EU leaders are meeting in Brussels to discuss how to respond to Russia's troop deployment on Ukrainian soil.[/quote] [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26465962"]Source (BBC)[/URL] They also brought the referendum date forward 2 months, it will be in 10 days. It's basically just a staged event in order to garner some legitimacy. Crimea is completely lost, eventually the Ukrainian troops will be starved out of their bases and then forced out.

That's gonna be fun. I wonder how many countries will recognize this kind of referendum. One, or would Nauru strike again?

[QUOTE=gudman;44146844]That's gonna be fun. I wonder how many countries will recognize this kind of referendum. One, or would Nauru strike again?[/QUOTE] They'll just do what they usually do in this situation. Pay small nations to recognise them.

So.... Crimea is Russian again? [editline]6th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=SeamanStains;44146855]They'll just do what they usually do in this situation. Pay small nations to recognise them.[/QUOTE] Sri Lanka denounces X.

[QUOTE=laserguided;44146857]So.... Crimea is Russian again?[/QUOTE] Somehow I doubt it. I really really doubt it. Let's be completely honest here, I just hope it's not happening.

Jesus that referendum can't be valid at all, 10 days when the country hasn't even stabilized and is being invaded by another country? Who's to say the Russians aren't going to mess with the referendum either? The Putin government isn't new to messing with elections(140% anyone?) and they're obviously there to get Crimea, I mean, it'd be a real shame if Russia put all of this show up only to end up not getting Crimea.

Is it so hard to believe that there's a large group of people in Crimea who actually want to be in the Russian Federation. Let them have their referendum and be done with it. Hopefully then the Russian troops will leave.

So judging by the winner stars, this is a good thing? Does this mean that shit will start to relax now and we can then go back to worrying about vidya games again?

[QUOTE=Mabus;44147050]Is it so hard to believe that there's a large group of people in Crimea who actually want to be in the Russian Federation. Let them have their referendum and be done with it. Hopefully then the Russian troops will leave.[/QUOTE] No, it isn't, what's hard to believe is that this referendum is even legit anymore.

The problem is the referendum's fairness and legitimateness would be questioned regardless of when it is held or by whom it is held. The new Ukrainian government themselves should stop trying to push or abolish laws and focus on getting actual elections held.

[QUOTE=Gishank;44147146]The problem is the referendum's fairness and legitimateness would be questioned regardless of when it is held or by whom it is held. The new Ukrainian government themselves should stop trying to push or abolish laws and focus on getting actual elections held.[/QUOTE] Sadly Ukraine is unwilling to let Crimea hold legal referendums.

[QUOTE=Gishank;44147146]The problem is the referendum's fairness and legitimateness would be questioned regardless of when it is held or by whom it is held. The new Ukrainian government themselves should stop trying to push or abolish laws and focus on getting actual elections held.[/QUOTE] What an risk their seats in government? They don't want to. Its in their interest to pass as many laws as they can before east ukraine votes them out of office.

[QUOTE=laserguided;44147162]Sadly Ukraine is unwilling to let Crimea hold legal referendums.[/QUOTE] According to Ukrainian constitution, they can't either way: questions of territorial integrity can only be held in National referendum. No region can by themselves decide to secede. It's not like the new government is dead set on abiding the constitution though but that's a different question.

[QUOTE=gudman;44147206]According to Ukrainian constitution, they can't either way: questions of territorial integrity can only be held in National referendum. No region can by themselves decide to secede. It's not like the new government is dead set on abiding the constitution though but that's a different question.[/QUOTE] Then they'll be calling for referendums to loosen and ease independence of territories

[QUOTE=laserguided;44147162]Sadly Ukraine is unwilling to let Crimea hold legal referendums.[/QUOTE] Maybe because russia has invaded? Yeah, let's totally have a referendum in a place that's occupied by enemy forces, I don't see a problem here at alllllllll.

[QUOTE=Miskav;44147260]Maybe because russia has invaded? Yeah, let's totally have a referendum in a place that's occupied by enemy forces, I don't see a problem here at alllllllll.[/QUOTE] It's illegal under the Ukrainian constitution. The self-determination of the Crimean people will hopefully be displayed on the 30th.

[QUOTE=Miskav;44147260]Maybe because russia has invaded? Yeah, let's totally have a referendum in a place that's occupied by enemy forces, I don't see a problem here at alllllllll.[/QUOTE] to be fair they probably wouldn't either way. but this referendum isn't going to be a real one.

[QUOTE=Teddybeer;44147299]You might as well let all the animals from the zoo vote to.[/QUOTE] Uhm, did you just compare Crimean population to animals in the zoo? Or is it a bad joke or something?

[QUOTE=gudman;44147339]Uhm, did you just compare Crimean population to animals in the zoo? Or is it a bad joke or something?[/QUOTE] I guess it's some kind of allegory on "animals in cages" thing. He means they are not free to choose or something. Still kind of rude.

[QUOTE]The Speaker of the Crimean parliament, Volodymyr Konstantynov, says that the wording of the referendum about Crimea's secession from Ukraine has been kept as simple as possible. "We did not try to disguise these questions or hide them behind high-brow phrases that would prevent people from understanding what they are voting for," he says.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=gudman;44147206]According to Ukrainian constitution, they can't either way: questions of territorial integrity can only be held in National referendum. No region can by themselves decide to secede. It's not like the new government is dead set on abiding the constitution though but that's a different question.[/QUOTE] That doesn't even make sense. You're basically defending Ukraine's backwards constitution.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44148072]That doesn't even make sense. You're basically defending Ukraine's backwards constitution.[/QUOTE] What, where? I don't think I've stated my opinion there, only facts and that bit about interim government failing to follow the constitution on multiple occasions.

[QUOTE=gudman;44148091]What, where? I don't think I've stated my opinion there, only facts and that bit about interim government failing to follow the constitution on multiple occasions.[/QUOTE] The fact that territories can't hold votes to succeed. If the area is mostly ethnic Russians and they want to join the Russian federation then why is there a problem? Just because people think Russia will fix the vote?

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44148138]The fact that territories can't hold votes to succeed. If the area is mostly ethnic Russians and they want to join the Russian federation then why is there a problem? Just because people think Russia will fix the vote?[/QUOTE] I don't have a clear opinion on this one. The facts are as follows: - Interim government doesn't give a fuck about constitution when it demands something from them (for example, Yanuk still legally is a president, impeachment procedure was broken); - Interim government remembers about constitution when they have to call the referendum and Crimea's PM "illegal"; - While under current constitution the referendum is indeed illegal, it should be okay as far as international legislation goes on people's right of self-determination; - The Russian forces illegally located in Crimea (which the "invasion" part) threaten the legitimacy of the referendum, because doubts arise naturally. That's how it goes. I personally oppose the idea of Crimea joining Russian federation for two reasons: - I dont' want any more money-sinks eating away from our shrinking budget; - I don't want any sanctions placed on Russia because any and all will mostly hit me and miss the Putin and his elites.

[QUOTE=gudman;44148242]I don't have a clear opinion on this one. The facts are as follows: - Interim government doesn't give a fuck about constitution when it demands something from them (for example, Yanuk still legally is a president, impeachment procedure was broken); - Interim government remembers about constitution when they have to call the referendum and Crimea's PM "illegal"; - While under current constitution the referendum is indeed illegal, it should be okay as far as international legislation goes on people's right of self-determination; - The Russian forces illegally located in Crimea (which the "invasion" part) threaten the legitimacy of the referendum, because doubts arise naturally. That's how it goes. I personally oppose the idea of Crimea joining Russian federation for two reasons: - I dont' want any more money-sinks eating away from our shrinking budget; - I don't want any sanctions placed on Russia because any and all will mostly hit me and miss the Putin and his elites.[/QUOTE] A bridge was commissioned, it's too late!

You know, at this point, I'm convinced there is no 'good side' in this conflict The interim government are a bunch of shitheads who fucked up their own revolution and now are demanding Crimea to abide by the constitution that they've broken multiple times. Don't even get me started on the Svoboda fraction of the Euromaidan. But Putin is also a massive shithead for obvious reasons, including repeatedly escalating tensions and fucking up his economy, which will mostly hit his people, who he apparently cares about OH SO MUCH.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44148138]The fact that territories can't hold votes to succeed. If the area is mostly ethnic Russians and they want to join the Russian federation then why is there a problem? Just because people think Russia will fix the vote?[/QUOTE] It's a problem because it's Ukrainian territory?!?? That piece of land isn't owned just by the people living there, it's owned by all Ukrainians.

Let nobody here be fooled - This was the only way Russia could steal Ukranian land and make it look like it was Crimea's choice all along. This is their puppet government.

[QUOTE=mobrockers;44149218]It's a problem because it's Ukrainian territory?!?? That piece of land isn't owned just by the people living there, it's owned by all Ukrainians.[/QUOTE] What does that even mean? Crimea is its own country within a state, much like the UK. Does Scotland not deserve a right to succeed? You might not agree with the motivations behind the succession, but there are clear boundaries and if the people of a local region want to split, why not let them? "The land is owned by everyone," no it's not, it's clearly divided by ethnic, political and economic ideological boundaries.

What are the chances of the Ukrainian army restoring order to Crimea?