ICE Nabs Young "Dreamer" Applicant After she Speaks Out at a News Conference - Polidicks

[URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/03/02/ice-nabs-young-dreamer-applicant-after-she-speaks-out-at-a-news-conference/?hpid=hp_hp-morning-mix_mm-dreamer%3Ahomepage%2Fstory"]The Washington Post[/URL] [quote]Daniela Vargas listens at a news conference in Jackson, Miss., on Wednesday. (Rogelio V. Solis/AP) About two weeks ago, Daniela Vargas hid in the bedroom closet of her Jackson, Miss., home after watching immigration officials handcuff her father in the family’s driveway. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents detained the 22-year-old’s father and brother, Argentines who were living in the country illegally, amid the Trump administration’s aggressive deportation effort that has riled immigrant communities across the country. Although Vargas was in the process of renewing her status as a “dreamer” to remain in the United States legally — a status she had allowed to lapse — she feared that immigration officials would come after her next. But those fears did not stop Vargas from speaking out at a news conference Wednesday at Jackson City Hall, alongside immigrant rights advocates. “Today my father and brother await deportation, she said, “while I continue to fight this battle as a dreamer to help contribute to this country which I feel that is very much my country.” After leaving the news conference with her friend, two law enforcement cars pulled her over. ICE agents reportedly opened the car door, telling Vargas, “you know who we are and you know why we’re here,” her friend, Jordan Sanders, told Univision. Then, they handcuffed her and took her into custody. [img]https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2017/03/crop_296Immigrant_Support_24181-97219-1024x683.jpg&w=1484[/img] [B]Vargas’s detention shocked and angered immigrant rights advocates, who feared ICE officials may have retaliated against her for speaking publicly about her case.[/B] It also heightened existing anxieties that “dreamers” registered under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program created by President Barack Obama could now be targeted for deportation.[/quote]

Well that's just unfortunate. Now fill out the immigration forms again just like everybody else.

[QUOTE=pentium;51899659]Well that's just unfortunate. Now fill out the immigration forms again just like everybody else.[/QUOTE] Er... she was in the process of renewing her legal status. Or did you not read even the excerpt?

Yeah well it sucks and all, but uh [quote]Although Vargas was in the process of renewing her status as a “dreamer” to remain in the United States legally — a status she had allowed to lapse [/quote] Maybe next time actually keep it up to date. [editline]2nd March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=archangel125;51899666]Er... she was in the process of renewing her legal status. Or did you not read even the excerpt?[/QUOTE] She let it expire though, which can be avoided afaik.

It's really unfortunate and god I feel really sorry for what happened but there's that quick lapse they took advantage of. It's frustrating but I can't argue against it

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;51899669]Yeah well it sucks and all, but uh Maybe next time actually keep it up to date. [editline]2nd March 2017[/editline] She let it expire though, which can be avoided afaik.[/QUOTE] Ruining lives over bureaucratic bullshit. Thank God I can't get ripped away from my country for forgetting to renew my license plates, or I'd be fucked. She had legal status, it expired (likely just because of forgetfulness), and she had her life stolen from her before she could finish putting her paperwork back in. That is disgusting and shameful.

Not sure what to think of this, but has anything like this happened before under say Bush or Obama?

[QUOTE=ChicagoMobster;51899680]It's really unfortunate and god I feel really sorry for what happened but there's that quick lapse they took advantage of. It's frustrating but I can't argue against it[/QUOTE] Yes you can. You should not be able to deport people who are actively involved in the proper channels for obtaining or renewing legal status. Proponents of Trump's harsh measure keep saying that all they want to see is immigrants going through the proper channels, but that narrative falls apart pretty fucking quickly when they cheer the destruction of a young girls' life on a technicality. [editline]2nd March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51899705]Not sure what to think of this, but has anything like this happened before under say Bush or Obama?[/QUOTE] Probably, yes, but that doesn't somehow make this acceptable.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51899708]Probably, yes, but that doesn't somehow make this acceptable.[/QUOTE] Wait, OK, I misread this. The timing of her being detained is very suspicious and appears awful, it does prompt fears from me that this is politically motivated. But I'm confused as to what her status is: she is a dreamer. What does that mean? It appears her father and brother are both illegal immigrants (though they have been there so long they're basically citizens in all but name), but why is she considered a dreamer? Just because she crossed the border without choice, essentially?

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51899731]Wait, OK, I misread this. The timing of her being detained is very suspicious and appears awful, it does prompt fears from me that this is politically motivated. But I'm confused as to what her status is: she is a dreamer. What does that mean? It appears her father and brother are both illegal immigrants (though they have been there so long they're basically citizens in all but name), but it sounds like she was born in the States?[/QUOTE] The 'dreamer' status is a designation allowing young people to stay in the USA legally under President Obama's DACA or Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, as the article explains. This incident has caused concerns among Immigrants' rights advocates that people formerly protected under this program will be targeted moving forward.

wow someone misses a date totally okay for an agency to raid her house and handcuff everyone and treat them like criminals

[QUOTE=archangel125;51899741]The 'dreamer' status is a designation allowing young people to stay in the USA legally under President Obama's DACA or Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, as the article explains. This incident has caused concerns among Immigrants' rights advocates that people formerly protected under this program will be targeted moving forward.[/QUOTE] Has the program been repealed? Isn't this an example of people being punished for current crimes they committed in the past that were not illegal when they committed them? I'm a little confused on this all.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51899756]Has the program been repealed? Isn't this an example of people being punished for current crimes they committed in the past that were not illegal when they committed them? I'm a little confused on this all.[/QUOTE] Not yet. The issue here is that this girl had allowed her status to lapse and was in the process of renewing it, but instead she and her family were rounded up for deportation. It means that the immigration and customs enforcement agencies are watching people with protected status like hawks, waiting for the slightest lapse so they can be shipped off.

-snipe, i need to get some rest before responding. Sorry.-

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51899756]Has the program been repealed? Isn't this an example of people being punished for current crimes they committed in the past that were not illegal when they committed them? I'm a little confused on this all.[/QUOTE] No, it hasn't. Because the DREAM act could never pass, Obama issued directives that protected people with the same criteria the DREAM act, effectively bypassing the legislature. All it takes is a simple directive to reverse it all. [QUOTE=archangel125;51899759]Not yet. The issue here is that this girl had allowed her status to lapse and was in the process of renewing it, but instead she and her family were rounded up for deportation. It means that the immigration and customs enforcement agencies are watching people with protected status like hawks, waiting for the slightest lapse so they can be shipped off.[/QUOTE] So immigration and customs shouldn't do their job of keeping track of people who aren't legal citizens?

So what's the solution then, let everything slide? "Oh you didn't do the paperwork in time that is very publicly announced when it's due and what the consequence are if you don't do so? It's okay just stay here some more" She's not an American citizen yet, she doesn't have the same rights as an American citizen yet. I'm not going to feel sorry for someone that didn't take the very clear steps to keep their legal status in America. Maybe next time she'll understand what a deadline is.

[quote]She had been granted the two-year protection under DACA twice before, in December 2012 and in November 2014, Abigail Peterson, one of her attorneys, told the Associated Press. But her DACA status had expired in November 2016, and it was not until mid-February that she was able to come up with the $495 application fee to renew it. Vargas was 7 years old when she came to the United States from Cordova, Argentina, with her father, mother and brother on a three-month visitor’s visa in 2001. Their visa expired, but the family stayed, establishing a life in Mississippi. Her mother eventually moved out of the state after her parents divorced, she told the Jackson Free Press.[/quote] For gods sakes, she's been here since she was seven years old. For the past fifteen years, she has been, for all intents and purposes, an American girl. Her entire adult life. Now, her life is being ripped away from her because it took her a few weeks too long to put together a $500 application fee. After she finally got the money, she again began the application process, and they swooped in and kicked her out before it completed. They ruined her life on a bullshit technicality despite the fact that she was actively trying to rectify the situation. What the hell has that accomplished? You have ruined a person's life, a person who has been living here almost since the beginning of her living memory, because she was a few weeks late on an extension because of financial troubles. You people saying, [I]"hehe she should have just done the paperwork on time then, stupid illegal :buddy:"[/I] are pretty damn scummy imo. A life has been destroyed for fucking nothing, and you're applauding that based on a goddamn technicality. This girl and her family weren't a threat to our country. Destroying their lives has not made ours any better. Anybody in support of this should be ashamed of themselves.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51899789]No, that's a law. It's bullshit to just flat out ignore something because "oh you probably forgot". If I forgot to pay my taxes the IRS would fuck me 6 ways from sunday. If I had to pay child support, and forgot for a month, they'd throw me in prison for a year. Same thing here, forget to turn in your paperwork to keep staying here? Then you don't get to stay here. If you know that you need to do paperwork in order to LEGALLY STAY IN A COUNTRY, then you should probably get it done on time, or, assuming you can't, then file for an extension of your deadline. If you can't even do the basic bullshit, then why on earth should you be granted leniency. I mean I could legit understand if there were extenuating circumstances (sick family, personal illness, monetary issues), but those don't appear to be in effect here.[/QUOTE] That's the equivalent of throwing the book at a first time offender. She has been here for many years, raised American basically, and all it takes is a piece of paper and she's deported? I don't see how people can see this as acceptable, it's morally reprehensible at face value. Legality may always have power, but morality will always be the right thing to do.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51900006]It's not a technicality. It's the law. It's fucking bullshit to hold everyone to the same standard, but then to make exceptions based on feel good bullshit. As I said earlier, Would the IRS give you leniency if you turned in your taxes late? Would a state give you leniency if you paid a ticket late? Would your job give you leniency if you turned in reports late? No, none of the above would happen. Why? Because in the real world deadlines actually matter. Don't turn your shit in on time? Suffer the consequences.[/QUOTE] Some of us tend to favour the spirit of the law rather than the letter of it.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51899692]Ruining lives over bureaucratic bullshit. Thank God I can't get ripped away from my country for forgetting to renew my license plates, or I'd be fucked. She had legal status, it expired (likely just because of forgetfulness), and she had her life stolen from her before she could finish putting her paperwork back in. That is disgusting and shameful.[/QUOTE] Don't forget to renew something so fucking important then. At what point do we stop blaming the system and blame the individual who is literally at fault. I'm glad you're willing to make excuses for her, but obviously that don't cut it. It's kinda weird that my mother who has a green card was able to remember to get hers renewed after 10 years and did so before her card expired. It's pretty obvious that if you're immigration status is in limbo and you don't have the proper paperwork and you start doing a lot of shit that gives you publicity that you're going to get looked into. It's commonsense. I'm not going to say that aspect is right, but at least have some fucking smarts.

[QUOTE=MR-X;51900038]Don't forget to renew something so fucking important then. At what point do we stop blaming the system and blame the individual who is literally at fault. I'm glad you're willing to make excuses for her, but obviously that don't cut it. It's kinda weird that my mother who has a green card was able to remember to get hers renewed after 10 years and did so before her card expired.[/QUOTE] Never. We are to NEVER blame people for decisions they make and actions they have done. There is to be no such thing as personal responsibility.

If I can remember to renew my gun license every 5 years so that I don't go to jail, she can remember to renew her immigration papers.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51900037]Morality is also a subjective subject, and is foolish to base rule of law on. [B]What's acceptable to you, could not be acceptable to me, and vice versa[/B]. Yes, all it takes is a piece of paper to get deported, just like all it takes is a single unpaid ticket to get put in jail. Shit happens, we're a bureaucracy, single pieces of paper will make or break you.[/QUOTE] How is a woman getting her freedom that she has lived for all these years not acceptable to anyone? I mean it affects your life in exactly zero way, so why the fuck should you worry? Morality is never good when it is imposed on someone, I will give you that, but when it is helping someone in a way that doesn't affect anyone else, why go about it in an aggressive and fanatical way?

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51900006]It's not a technicality. It's the law. It's fucking bullshit to hold everyone to the same standard, but then to make exceptions based on feel good bullshit. [B]As I said earlier, Would the IRS give you leniency if you turned in your taxes late? Would a state give you leniency if you paid a ticket late?[/b] Would your job give you leniency if you turned in reports late? No, none of the above would happen. Why? Because in the real world deadlines actually matter. Don't turn your shit in on time? Suffer the consequences.[/QUOTE] If you don't pay your taxes on time, you have to pay a late fee. If you don't pay a ticket on time, you either have to pay it or go to court and explain why you couldn't pay it. If you don't turn in a report at work on time, you get called in to answer to your boss, who will in most cases warn you to be more careful next time. Note that in none of your examples, are you and your entire family kicked out of the country, destroying your entire life over a minor mistake that you have [I]already taken steps to rectify[/I]. In each of your examples, at least those pertaining to matters of law, you are given an opportunity to correct your mistake. You can pay your late taxes, and the problem goes away. You can pay your late ticket, and the problem goes away. But if you're late on your immigration papers, you shouldn't be allowed to correct that? She had already taken steps to correct the issue. She paid the application fee and started the paperwork. There was no malice here. You're off your rocker on this one. You don't destroy somebody's life for such a minute fuckin' thing. Yeah, you're right that she probably should have prepared better for her application. She should have made greater efforts to put together the application fee [I]before[/I] she needed it. Sure. I can agree with that. What I disagree with is the idea that she should have her entire life uprooted, and be kicked out of the country that she has spent her entire life living in, for such a tiny [I]whoopsy![/I] That is draconian.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51900103]Because if you're going to make an exception for her, then you must make an exception for all. It's not exactly fair or kosher to say "hey, you're cool, but that guy over there.. fuck him, he can't stay." Either we apply the law evenly to all, or we don't apply it at all. In a system that claims to support justice, the only way you can apply a law is to everyone, evenly.[/QUOTE] But... that's exactly what the courts exist for. Even in Canada, judges can choose to drop charges provided there are certain mitigating factors that qualify it. Police are given 'discretion' of whether to charge someone or not. For first-time offenders like shoplifting kids, police usually just give them a bit of a scare and let them go. There are systems in place for the law to not be used to fuck people's lives up unless it's really warranted. Just not for people who couldn't get enough money together in time to renew their DACA applications before they lapse, apparently. Fuck those guys.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51900125] But you'll notice.. if you read the article, she's not being deported immediately. She's been detained, and will have a trial. The judge will decide if she should be deported due to her failure to submit the paperwork on time, or if she should be granted leniency.[/QUOTE] We'll see where that goes. The Trump admin fucked up in a big way by directing ICE to go after all illegals rather than just violent criminals and thieves.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51900125]Yes, and all of those are consequences of failure to do something, as defined by law (or company standards as in the case of "not turning in reports on time") The consequence of failing to turn in your DREAM paper work on time is you lose your legal status.. which means you're here illegally.. the consequences of which is deportation. Plain and simple.[/QUOTE] "The consequences of turning in this form late are much too high, other similar situations are far more lenient because not much harm is actually done by missing the deadline for such a thing" "Yeah well those are the consequences of turning in the form late" "This law is unjust and should be changed" "Yeah well it's the law" Like you aren't even paying attention to the arguments here

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51900125]Yes, and all of those are consequences of failure to do something, as defined by law (or company standards as in the case of "not turning in reports on time") The consequence of failing to turn in your DREAM paper work on time is you lose your legal status.. which means you're here illegally.. the consequences of which is deportation. Plain and simple. [editline]2nd March 2017[/editline] But you'll notice.. if you read the article, she's not being deported immediately. She's been detained, and will have a trial. The judge will decide if she should be deported due to her failure to submit the paperwork on time, or if she should be granted leniency.[/QUOTE] You're working awfully hard to justify draconian measures aimed at pointlessly destroying the lives of innocent people over bureaucratic technicalities. So, let me ask you this: who fucking benefits here? Our country has shattered a family because of a few weeks' delay on an application due to financial hardship. Congratulations. What's our prize? What do we get for taking an innocent young woman who has lived as a productive member our society since she was in kindergarten, and destroying her life? It must be a pretty fuckin' worthwhile reward, if we're willing to resort to such horrifying tactics to achieve it... You're using [I]"this is the law"[/I] as justification, despite the fact that everybody is saying, [I]"this law is fuckin' [B]fucked[/B]. It is horrifying that we would be doing so much damage to people who have committed such minor mistakes, especially people who are making every effort to correct those mistakes. This has to stop."[/I] [I]"Yeah, well, it's the law. :pudge:"[/I]

[QUOTE=Saturn V;51899753]wow someone misses a date totally okay for an agency to raid her house and handcuff everyone and treat them like criminals[/QUOTE] If I miss the last day of paying taxes I break the law and get prosecuted.

Are you paying a regular fee to not be arrested because you have some chronic disorder that marijuana helps alleviate? Do you get deported if you can't pay it?