How realistic is Donald Trump's Mexico wall? Estimated cost around 25 billion - Polidicks

[quote]President Donald Trump wants to build an "impenetrable, physical, tall, powerful, beautiful, southern border wall" between the US and Mexico. But how tall? How powerful? How beautiful? The Republican's big ideas can be small on detail, and the wall is no exception. The US-Mexico border is about 1,900 miles (3100 km) long and traverses all sorts of terrain from empty, dusty desert to the lush and rugged surroundings of the Rio Grande. Some 650 miles of the border is covered already by a confused and non-continuous series of fences, concrete slabs and other structures. Mr Trump says his wall will cover 1,000 miles and natural obstacles will take care of the rest. So what will he build? Throughout his presidential campaign, Mr Trump was adamant that he would fortify the southern border with a wall ("a wall is better than fencing and it's much more powerful"). The president briefly walked back his promise in November, telling CBS it might be a fence "for certain areas". But as recently as his first news conference in January, Mr Trump corrected a reporter who asked about his plans for the structure. "It's not a fence, it's a wall. You just misreported it," he said. That rules out relatively cheap options like tall iron fence posts or wire mesh. Concrete is the obvious choice. Ali F. Rhuzkan, a New York-based structural engineer, estimated in an article for National Memo that a 1,900-mile wall - seemingly Mr Trump's original plan - would require about 339 million cubic feet (12.5 million cubic yards) of concrete - three times more than the Hoover Dam. Mr Rhuzkan's estimate was based on a wall that ran five feet beneath the ground and 20 feet above. Mr Trump's claims for the wall range between 30ft and, more recently, 55ft. Even at 1,000 miles - vast amounts of concrete would be required. That concrete, Mr Rhuzkan wrote, would need to be manufactured in slabs nearby - likely in dedicated plants - and transported to building sites, with all the enormous production and staffing costs involved. What are the costs? "I would build a great wall, and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me, and I build them very inexpensively." Mr Trump claims the total cost of the wall will be $10 (£7.5) billion to $12 billion. But estimates from fact checkers and engineers seem to be universally higher. The 650 miles of fencing already put up has cost the government more than $7 billion, and none of it could be described, even charitably, as impenetrable, physical, tall, powerful, or beautiful. There are other reasons the costs would be likely to escalate: Mr Trump's plans require extending the wall into increasingly remote and mountainous regions, raising the building costs substantially. Adding even more to the expense, the new 1,000 miles would crisscross private land, which would have to be purchased, perhaps by legal force, or financial settlements made with owners. A study by the Washington Post estimated the cost of the president's wall would be closer to $25 billion. And who pays? The president has wavered on who would foot the bill. More recently he has suggested the US would initially finance the wall and Mexico would later reimburse the costs, but it was unclear how he would force them to pay. Mexico's president, Enrique Pena Nieto, insisted they wouldn't pay. Former Mexican president Vicente Fox said: "I'm not going to pay for that ... wall," using a somewhat unpresidential word to make his feelings on the matter clear. Asked by US journalists how he could force Mexico to pay, Mr Trump suggested he could ransom the country by blocking undocumented immigrants from sending money home, using a provision of the US Patriot Act designed to stop funding for terrorism.[/quote] [url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37243269?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook[/url] Well the other thread is mostly talking about Trump and his policies. This is more about the wall itself, the physical aspects of it Not only is it going to cost a bomb, not factored in are watchtowers, movement sensors, guards 24/7, all the cctvs required, barbed wire, if he really intend on stopping human movement. And it might not even stop people from risking their lives.

We could easily lessen student debt with this money...

Considering how much other border barriers have cost, that seems kinda low, especially if it's planned to be a full concrete structure for any significant amount of its lenght

Anything about how long it would actually take to build? Would he even be able to finish building it during his term in the impossible chance that it actually happens?

Instead of building a useless wall, spend it on VA, education, healthcare, and health insurance in equal amounts and watch your approval rating soar! But since this is Trump we're talking about, prepare for the middle and lower classes to be bumfucked once their dollar doesnt buy as much as it used to.

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;51726290]We could easily lessen student debt with this money...[/QUOTE] Could have given every university student in the USA $1250 instead. Which is arguably a much better way to spend the money...

[QUOTE=Stopper;51726310]Could have given every university student in the USA $1250 instead. Which is arguably a much better way to spend the money...[/QUOTE] And what do you think that money is going to go towards? Their fucking outrageous student debt.

As I had mentioned before, if Trump really wants to stop people from entering the US, he'll be looking for something like this: [img]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c6/d2/71/c6d2717dbfba96d166b3b969b1b24186.jpg[/img] That's the Berlin wall, and, the wall was over rather flat terrain. And then, now you got the arid desert of West coast of US, not only is making such a fortified wall a pain in the ass, more money gotta be pumped in to civil engineers to work out how such a wall can be built while maintaining its purpose. I'm no civil engineer, but most border fences in the world aren't as difficult as this one (except say Korea)

Plus AFAIK it'll only increase the number of immigrants here, since most cross through overstaying their visa - this plan will make it impossible to leave.

[QUOTE=shian;51726351]As I had mentioned before, if Trump really wants to stop people from entering the US, he'll be looking for something like this: [img]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c6/d2/71/c6d2717dbfba96d166b3b969b1b24186.jpg[/img] That's the Berlin wall, and, the wall was over rather flat terrain. And then, now you got the arid desert of West coast of US, not only is making such a fortified wall a pain in the ass, more money gotta be pumped in to civil engineers to work out how such a wall can be built while maintaining its purpose. I'm no civil engineer, but most border fences in the world aren't as difficult as this one (except say Korea)[/QUOTE] I think the Berlin wall is a fantastic testament to just how hilariously ineffective walls are at actually closing off a border, even one as small as the one through Berlin There was no shortage of people going over the wall itself, and no shortage of people simply bypassing it by going through other countries, but far and above the most common way people escaped East Germany was basically the exact same way people bypass the US border today They would get an official visa of one kind or another and then just never left when it expired

[QUOTE=Stopper;51726310]Could have given every university student in the USA $1250 instead. Which is arguably a much better way to spend the money...[/QUOTE] That won't even cover the interest on a US student loan after their bachelor for a year. Lol

[QUOTE=shian;51726351]As I had mentioned before, if Trump really wants to stop people from entering the US, he'll be looking for something like this: [img]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c6/d2/71/c6d2717dbfba96d166b3b969b1b24186.jpg[/img] That's the Berlin wall, and, the wall was over rather flat terrain. And then, now you got the arid desert of West coast of US, not only is making such a fortified wall a pain in the ass, more money gotta be pumped in to civil engineers to work out how such a wall can be built while maintaining its purpose. I'm no civil engineer, but most border fences in the world aren't as difficult as this one (except say Korea)[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the Berlin Wall only worked because it was mostly constantly patrolled by guards. Are you telling me the entire mexico border is going to be patrolled 24/7

[QUOTE=shian;51726351]As I had mentioned before, if Trump really wants to stop people from entering the US, he'll be looking for something like this: [img]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c6/d2/71/c6d2717dbfba96d166b3b969b1b24186.jpg[/img] That's the Berlin wall, and, the wall was over rather flat terrain. And then, now you got the arid desert of West coast of US, not only is making such a fortified wall a pain in the ass, more money gotta be pumped in to civil engineers to work out how such a wall can be built while maintaining its purpose. I'm no civil engineer, but most border fences in the world aren't as difficult as this one (except say Korea)[/QUOTE] I do not think the Berlin Wall is even possible to compare it with and how it affected the country. The Berlin Wall divided a country and a people and was situated in one of the most populated cities in Europe and along it. The Trump Wall will not divide a people, it will divide two people sure, but it will not be situated in a densely populated area, cutting a city in two.

[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;51726665]I'm pretty sure the Berlin Wall only worked because it was mostly constantly patrolled by guards. Are you telling me the entire mexico border is going to be patrolled 24/7[/QUOTE] Clearly we automate turrets and plant mines to deal with anyone in the no man's land

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51726693]Clearly we automate turrets and plant mines to deal with anyone in the no man's land[/QUOTE] Don't forget those snipers some of them said would be a great idea to man the wall with. /s

Why do they keep insisting we build a wall? We have technology which could do the job far better and cost far less to implement. Anyone can simply bypass a wall, that's what trebuchets are for!

i really really want someone like the cartel to just dynomite a section of it just to demonstrate how futile it is

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51726688]I do not think the Berlin Wall is even possible to compare it with and how it affected the country. The Berlin Wall divided a country and a people and was situated in one of the most populated cities in Europe and along it. The Trump Wall will not divide a people, it will divide two people sure, but it will not be situated in a densely populated area, cutting a city in two.[/QUOTE] Actually it will cut through small towns and in one instance, a golf course, if I recall correctly. edit: [url=http://fusion.net/story/327674/golf-course-trapped-between-a-border-wall-and-the-rio-grande-river/]Yup[/url]

[QUOTE=DoctorSalt;51726383]Plus AFAIK it'll only increase the number of immigrants here, since most cross through overstaying their visa - this plan will make it impossible to leave.[/QUOTE] How so? I find it hard to imagine a visa holder trying to cross back over to Mexico illegally in the first place, if at all.

My mate works in construction doing quantity surveying. He estimated that 1000 miles long 2m*25m would cost £17 billion just for the concrete. Not taking into consideration the excavation or the foundations which would need to be huge to support it

[QUOTE=Doozle;51728748]My mate works in construction doing quantity surveying. He estimated that 1000 miles long 2m*25m would cost £17 billion just for the concrete. Not taking into consideration the excavation or the foundations which would need to be huge to support it[/QUOTE] It doesn't need to be nearly that big, really.

[quote=The Dolan]I would build a great wall, and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me, and I build them very inexpensively.[/quote] Leaked concept: [t]http://fencepictures.org/image/175/White-Picket-Fence-Pictures-4.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=Sitkero;51726391] They would get an official visa of one kind or another and then just never left when it expired[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure that was because the western governments welcomed eastern people with open arms, in fact helping them in the process. That's not really a similar scenario to mexico and the us govt After all the Berlin Wall was built to keep people in (the east), not to keep them (the west) out, so to say.

It would cost less than half of that figure to develop and start launching SpaceX's ITS. [editline]26th January 2017[/editline] So humans on Mars or a wall...

[QUOTE=SirJon;51729878]I'm pretty sure that was because the western governments welcomed eastern people with open arms, in fact helping them in the process. That's not really a similar scenario to mexico and the us govt After all the Berlin Wall was built to keep people in (the east), not to keep them (the west) out, so to say.[/QUOTE] Being designed to keep people in or out is kind of immaterial, the intent doesn't really change the functional aspects of a wall. It's still serving as an obstacle to prevent transit from point A to point B While Western governments did do their part in helping those fleeing East Germany, that doesn't really change how those people got out of East Germany in the first place, which was official visas issued by the East German government that allowed them to cross the border

Is Trump still entertaining the notion that tariffs can help pay for the wall? If so, I'm curious to see if there's a corresponding rise in Mexican exports to China - honestly considering everything I think the Chinese would probably purchase a lot of that stuff even if they didn't get the best deal possible just to starve America of imports and tariffs altogether. [editline]28th January 2017[/editline] Unless the trade pact in North America prevents that, of course. I'm not too sure on how it works.

If he wants it to be built, it can be built without much trouble. The problem is it is a fucking waste of resources.

I watched the ARE episode on immigration last night, and because I'm a huge nerd, read the sources. The practicality of the wall seems to be the least important of all the possible concerns.

These were the EXACT numbers and facts I got from sources when I did my "anti-Trump" speech when Trump went viral 2 years ago. It was meant with applause and it was a really good and convincing speech, and seeing Trump win and see the exact same info being shown now makes what I did feel redundant. Damnit.

[QUOTE=Morgen;51729915]It would cost less than half of that figure to develop and start launching SpaceX's ITS. [editline]26th January 2017[/editline] So humans on Mars or a wall...[/QUOTE] So instead of spending the money on something useless, we'd be spending it on something even more useless. Great idea.