• Pope Francis: Priests may forgive women who have had abortions
    17 replies, posted
[quote]Pope Francis rocked the Catholic world -- again -- on Tuesday by announcing that contrite women who have had an abortion can seek forgiveness from all priests during the church's upcoming "Year of Mercy." [B]Traditionally, people involved in the procurement of abortion, condemned as a grave sin by the church, are considered automatically excommunicated, and only a bishop can lift the ban. Under the new, temporary policy, Francis is essentially suspending bishops' power to prohibit priests from offering forgiveness and giving clergy full authority to absolve abortions in the name of God and the church.[/B] The pontiff's announcement comes just weeks before he is scheduled to visit the United States, and lands amid a fierce debate over the funding and morality of Planned Parenthood, one of the nation's largest providers of abortion. Vatican officials say Francis will likely try to transcend the culture wars when he visits Washington, New York and Philadelphia later this month, but his church here remains bitterly divided over the morality of abortion. According to a new poll conducted by the Public Religion Research Institute, [B]51% of American Catholics believe abortion should be legal in all cases, while 45% say it should be illegal in all cases. [/B]In the hours after Francis' announcement, Catholics on both sides of the debate were seeking to spin the popular pontiff's remarks. The Pope's new policy, which does not change church doctrine, technically applies only to Year of Mercy, a centuries-old Catholic practice during which believers may receive special indulgences for their sins. [B]"The tragedy of abortion is experienced by some with a superficial awareness, as if not realizing the extreme harm that such an act entails," Francis said in a statement Tuesday. "Many others, on the other hand, although experiencing this moment as a defeat, believe that they have no other option." "I think in particular of all the women who have resorted to abortion," the Pope continued. "I am well aware of the pressure that has led them to this decision."[/B] The church's mercy year begins on December 8 and runs through November 20, 2016. Vatican officials say it is possible the pontiff will allow the abortion policy to continue in perpetuity. The move showcases a new phase in Francis' papacy, which began in March of 2013. During the first two years, he changed the church's tone by welcoming people on the margins, including gays and lesbians, divorced Catholics, the elderly, the poor and the sick. This summer, for example, Francis said the church should take special care to embrace divorced Catholics. "No closed doors!" he told a crowd gathered for his weekly audience in Rome in August.[/quote] [url]http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/01/europe/pope-francis-abortion/index.html[/url]
Holy shit. This blew my mind when I read it. Francis does the kind of shit that would cause an actual war if it happened in the Middle Ages.
Pope Francis is one of the most progressive popes we've had, he may not be as perfect as I want him to be, but that is understandable given that he is still the head of the Catholic Church. I wish more Christians could be like him
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;48593974]Holy shit. This blew my mind when I read it. Francis does the kind of shit that would cause an actual war if it happened in the Middle Ages.[/QUOTE] Sadly many are still in the Middle-Age mindset when it comes to stuff like this. Good on Francis. Despite my fundamental disagreements I do like him as a Pope.
I Still don't believe it is a tragedy but as the pope they had to word it specifically to show that he's advocating abortion
The idea that a man can absolve anyone of any sin is so anti-Biblical.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48594283]The idea that a man can absolve anyone of any sin is so anti-Biblical.[/QUOTE] The idea of condemning someone for life choices inconsequential to you is so 50s [editline]1st September 2015[/editline] I realize you may not believe so but really why try to kill the good mood?
[QUOTE=ghghop;48595001]The idea of condemning someone for life choices inconsequential to you is so 50s [editline]1st September 2015[/editline] I realize you may not believe so but really why try to kill the good mood?[/QUOTE] He's right though. There's no Biblical precedent for having some human intermediary absolve your sins for you. It's also immoral from most secular moral outlooks as well.
[QUOTE=ghghop;48595001]The idea of condemning someone for life choices inconsequential to you is so 50s [editline]1st September 2015[/editline] I realize you may not believe so but really why try to kill the good mood?[/QUOTE] I think you misunderstand. Biblically, Jesus is the one who absolves of sin, and he forgives freely to anyone who asks with a heart of repentance. What a priest, or any man, thinks about your sin is meaningless. I'm condemning less, not more, than the pope is suggesting. I'm saying that the entire concept of you needing a priest to absolve you or you're in trouble for any sin at all is way more restrictive than what's presented in the Bible.
[QUOTE=Explosions;48595075]He's right though. There's no Biblical precedent for having some human intermediary absolve your sins for you. It's also immoral from most secular moral outlooks as well.[/QUOTE] Except it's not the priest himself that's doing the absolvification. Jesus does the actual record-clearing, the priests job is to go on the Scripturephone and say "Yo, Jee-man, this guy Lenny, he's asking for forgiveness. He admitted to liking that new Adam Sandler movie, and uh, hang on, what man?...Oh, and he ran over a dog on the way here. He's cool? He's cool, right, thanks Jesunator."
[QUOTE=lavacano;48595171]Except it's not the priest himself that's doing the absolvification. Jesus does the actual record-clearing, the priests job is to go on the Scripturephone and say "Yo, Jee-man, this guy Lenny, he's asking for forgiveness. He admitted to liking that new Adam Sandler movie, and uh, hang on, what man?...Oh, and he ran over a dog on the way here. He's cool? He's cool, right, thanks Jesunator."[/QUOTE] There's no basis for that either. In fact the Bible clearly, and explicitly, says that Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. 1 Timothy 2:4-6, "[God] who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time."
[QUOTE=lavacano;48595171]Except it's not the priest himself that's doing the absolvification. Jesus does the actual record-clearing, the priests job is to go on the Scripturephone and say "Yo, Jee-man, this guy Lenny, he's asking for forgiveness. He admitted to liking that new Adam Sandler movie, and uh, hang on, what man?...Oh, and he ran over a dog on the way here. He's cool? He's cool, right, thanks Jesunator."[/QUOTE] Why not just pray then? Why participate in some bizarre, hierarchical artifact of medieval European politics and have some robed weirdo be the go-between?
[QUOTE=Explosions;48595208]Why not just pray then? Why participate in some bizarre, hierarchical artifact of medieval European politics and have some robed weirdo be the go-between?[/QUOTE] Most catholic dogmas are based on older religious pratices that they incorporated in order to swell their numbers with members of other religions. It's why there's the special clothing for the priests, it's why there's so many rituals, it's why people go to church SUNday (On the day of the Sol Invictus, an old roman cult) and so forth.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;48595255]Most catholic dogmas are based on older religious pratices that they incorporated in order to swell their numbers with members of other religions. It's why there's the special clothing for the priests, it's why there's so many rituals, it's why people go to church SUNday (On the day of the Sol Invictus, an old roman cult) and so forth.[/QUOTE] So, as I was saying, not Biblical.
[QUOTE=Explosions;48595262]So, as I was saying, not Biblical.[/QUOTE] Even more than not-Biblical. It directly contradicts the Bible.
Would be neat if women who got abortions actually [i]needed[/i] the forgiveness of a bunch of old men with an iron-age grasp on morality and ethics.
Most level-headed Catholics already practice this, seeing folks that get abortions more as victims of circumstances. P. Francis is just making it official.
If I recall correctly didn't a bunch of the clergy at senior levels claim the mother and doctors involved in aborting a sexually 9-11 year old girl's pregnancy were all automatically excommunicated despite the risk to said girl's life, only for these same clergymen to get shouted down by several figures among latin american clergy?
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