[video=youtube;oKEvD0_NUug]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKEvD0_NUug[/video]
Jim continues his perfect Top 10 series...
waahhwahh microtransactions are the devil
i hate this shit. microtransactions are an incredible piece of sustainable product design. if you don't want to be a part of that, fine, they're not for everyone... but that's the whole point. i mean that is the entire point of their design from the start: get $0 out of most people, get $100 out of a few
Calm down.
The few games that did microsations correct were Path Of Exile, Dota 2 and many more.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;42956991]waahhwahh microtransactions are the devil
i hate this shit. microtransactions are an incredible piece of sustainable product design. if you don't want to be a part of that, fine, they're not for everyone... but that's the whole point. i mean that is the entire point of their design from the start: get $0 out of most people, get $100 out of a few[/QUOTE]
What you are describing is free to play, but if you have allready payed 50$ for a game and then they offer dlc on release, that is beyond scummish
[url]http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-23-whens-a-free-to-play-game-not-free-to-play[/url]
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;42956991]waahhwahh microtransactions are the devil
i hate this shit. microtransactions are an incredible piece of sustainable product design. if you don't want to be a part of that, fine, they're not for everyone... but that's the whole point. i mean that is the entire point of their design from the start: get $0 out of most people, get $100 out of a few[/QUOTE]
found the microsoft developer
Microtransactions are great in DOTA2 where they're entirely cosmetic and everything gameplay-related is already unlocked, which is also true in TF2 to a lesser extent (tho even there everything gameplay-related drops, can be cheaply traded, and is usually balanced to be a specializing sidegrade, not an upgrade).
They're not great when you buy a full game and need to spend even more money to unlock everything it has to offer/barriers are put in place to make it tedious to grind rather than rewarding to progress.
They're of course still not great if the game's free and there's grindtastic barriers between here and "the part where it finally gets fun" not only because it kinda defeats the point but also because unlocking everything with money's usually way more expensive than just buying a full price title, which can make games with great concepts terrible in praxis because you're never going to experience it unless you happen to win the lottery.
Hearthstone's kinda TF2-y in nature because grinding's not really worth it, but the system rewards you if you come back every now and then. Stacking up to 3 daily quests with overlapping win conditions can net you 1-2 new booster packs every time you decide to play after a couple days.
Problem with micro transactions is that it might influence developers to make the game more tedious/grindy by design, to make you spend money to bypass it.
[QUOTE=Niklas;42957024]What you are describing is free to play, but if you have allready payed 50$ for a game and then they offer dlc on release, that is beyond scummish
[url]http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-23-whens-a-free-to-play-game-not-free-to-play[/url][/QUOTE]
oh right fairplay my bad
i had to turn the video off because sterling is so insufferable but i assumed he was just talking about microtransactions in general
day-one microtransactions are pretty bullshit. pretty much any other situation they're in is fine though
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;42957111]which is also true in TF2 to a lesser extent (tho even there everything gameplay-related drops, can be cheaply traded, and is usually balanced to be a specializing sidegrade, not an upgrade).[/QUOTE]
Totally disagree, because a lot of TF2's items are objectively worse than their alternatives (stock melee weapons) and the time to get every weapon under optimum conditions is [I]more than a [B]month[/B][/I].
Is this the same guy who narrates the Gametheroy series?
I found some gameplay footage of Grinding Noises:
[video=youtube;uUXl8OLQ1Rg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUXl8OLQ1Rg[/video]
The first Xbox is laughing its ass off right now.
[QUOTE=Niklas;42957024]What you are describing is free to play, but if you have allready payed 50$ for a game and then they offer dlc on release, that is beyond scummish
[url]http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-23-whens-a-free-to-play-game-not-free-to-play[/url][/QUOTE]
if the content is made separately (which it usually is) then i don't see the issue. developers/publishers should be compensated for their work.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42958527]if the content is made separately (which it usually is) then i don't see the issue. developers/publishers should be compensated for their work.[/QUOTE]
How can it possibly be separate when it's day one dlc on the disk.
When you pitch a game to a publisher these days they specifically ask how the game will make money outside of sales.
Further monetization through microtransactions is purely to raise profits. It's the consumer paying for an advantage.
And they do get compensated for their work. They supply goods, they get paid.
[QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;42958417]I found some gameplay footage of Grinding Noises:
[video=youtube;uUXl8OLQ1Rg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUXl8OLQ1Rg[/video]
The first Xbox is laughing its ass off right now.[/QUOTE]
It sounds like it's insufferably flatulent.
[QUOTE=Super Muffin;42958604]How can it possibly be separate when it's day one dlc on the disk[/QUOTE]
because generally there's long periods of time after development is done when developers can work on DLC. like, battlefield 4 was basically complete 2-3 months before it released a few weeks ago. the only real work to be done didn't require the entire team, so some of them went on and started to develop shit like china rising and second strike. it's a waste of time and money to have developers sit on their ass until some arbitrary date when they're [I]allowed[/I] to start working on new content.
and a lot of the stuff we have on disk is small content that doesn't really even take that much time to develop. also it's cheaper to have small content like extra missions and costumes on the disk than it is to add it in a patch or something, especially back when MS used to charge money to deliver patches. i can't think of an instance where something as big as... say... back to karkand has been right on the disk.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42958646]because generally there's long periods of time after development is done when developers can work on DLC. like, battlefield 4 was basically complete 2-3 months before it released a few weeks ago. the only real work to be done didn't require the entire team, so some of them went on and started to develop shit like china rising and second strike. it's a waste of time and money to have developers sit on their ass until some arbitrary date when they're [I]allowed[/I] to start working on new content.
and a lot of the stuff we have on disk is small content that doesn't really even take that much time to develop. also it's cheaper to have small content like extra missions and costumes on the disk than it is to add it in a patch or something, especially back when MS used to charge money to deliver patches. i can't think of an instance where something as big as... say... back to karkand has been right on the disk.[/QUOTE]
Yeah no. These days the developers usually don't even have enough time to finish the game itself, Battlefield 4 being a great example. They're all working really long days close to the release getting the shit that's going on the disc ready and then for the possible day 1 patch. If the "DLC" was made so far in advance that it actually made it to the disc then there's absolutely no reason not to include it in the actual game other than greed. It's not downloadable content if I'm paying just to access the stuff I already have on my disc.
[QUOTE={TFS} Rock Su;42957014]Calm down.
The few games that did microsations correct were Path Of Exile, Dota 2 and many more.[/QUOTE]
you just named two free games that's only way of making any profit what-so-ever is through microtransactions
ryse is a 60 dollar title.
forza 5 is a 60 dollar title.
[QUOTE=RautaPalli;42959145]Yeah no. These days the developers usually don't even have enough time to finish the game itself, Battlefield 4 being a great example. They're all working really long days close to the release getting the shit that's going on the disc ready and then for the possible day 1 patch. [b]If the "DLC" was made so far in advance that it actually made it to the disc then there's absolutely no reason not to include it in the actual game other than greed. It's not downloadable content if I'm paying just to access the stuff I already have on my disc.[/b][/QUOTE]
according to who? where does it say you're entitled to every single game file? doesn't that mean i should be able to use every item in TF2 or something because the files belong to me?
if the content was made after the developers got paid for the main game, or packaged separately, they deserve to get compensated for that extra work. if you can give me a [I]clear, confirmed, and 100% real[/I] case of content literally being cut from the main game and sold separately, let me know. speculation and "they would have done it because they're X publisher" aren't valid evidence.
wait, top 10 of all time?
hasnt the thing been out for a few days?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42959469]if you can give me a [I]clear, confirmed, and 100% real[/I] case of content literally being cut from the main game and sold separately, let me know.[/QUOTE]
Pretty certain [I]Arkham City's[/I] Catwoman thing is like that. Granted, it's less DLC and more anti-preowned, but if memory serves the game was first announced by Game Informer and she was on the cover.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42959469]according to who?[/QUOTE]
I don't know, me?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42959469]
where does it say you're entitled to every single game file?
[/QUOTE]
Nowhere? Does that mean I'm not allowed to think that on-disc "dlc" is a greedy bullshit business practice?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42959469]
doesn't that mean i should be able to use every item in TF2 or something because the files belong to me?
[/QUOTE]
No? I'm talking about on-disc "DLC". TF2 had none.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42959469]where does it say you're entitled to every single game file?[/QUOTE]
On your receipt. You bought the game.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42959469]according to who? where does it say you're entitled to every single game file? doesn't that mean i should be able to use every item in TF2 or something because the files belong to me? [/QUOTE]
That's not a fair comparison. TF2 is free to play.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42959469]if you can give me a [I]clear, confirmed, and 100% real[/I] case of content literally being cut from the main game and sold separately, let me know. speculation and "they would have done it because they're X publisher" aren't valid evidence.[/QUOTE]
Feature complete retail games with extra content finished ahead of launch and on disk:
Catwoman DLC in Arkham City
Any premium content available at launch for Battlefield
Anything from project $10 (Zaeed the price of freedom, Firewalker, find all five from BC1, etc.)
Additional suits in Dead Space 2
Dragon Age camp quest guy
Skate 3's Filmmaker Pack
Street Fighter 4's on disk dlc fiaso
Mass Effect 3 Prothean DLC (From Ashes)
Extra weapons and stages in Ghost Recon Future Soldier
Nuketown in Black Ops 2
Free Fall in Ghosts
I could go on.
[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;42958122]Totally disagree, because a lot of TF2's items are objectively worse than their alternatives (stock melee weapons) and the time to get every weapon under optimum conditions is [I]more than a [B]month[/B][/I].[/QUOTE]
can you name one stock melee weapon that is "objectively worse" than one of its alternatives? the equalizer used to be the only direct upgrade i can think of but the marked for death addition sorta balanced it out.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;42956991]waahhwahh microtransactions are the devil
i hate this shit. microtransactions are an incredible piece of sustainable product design. if you don't want to be a part of that, fine, they're not for everyone... but that's the whole point. i mean that is the entire point of their design from the start: get $0 out of most people, get $100 out of a few[/QUOTE]
I disagree. If you have all this content made from the very beginning you should give it to people who have bought the game.
You want to make the game sustainable and give a new project or sequel more development time, you create new content a year or so down the line. Forza is a good example. The game has fewer cars than the previous iteration, then has a bunch of DLC. Why? If anything it should have everything the older games have, plus more, THEN have DLC later on.
The current business practices are pretty rotten, and unfortunately only another crash in this market will make people realises that.
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