[img]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/01/05/article-2534058-1A6E893400000578-908_634x491.jpg[/img]
[quote]Millions of pounds in child benefit paid to families living outside the UK will be axed under David Cameron’s plan to claw back powers from Brussels.
The Prime Minister insisted it was wrong that the British taxpayer is giving cash to 40,000 children who live elsewhere in the European Union.
He revealed stopping migrant workers in the UK from claiming child benefit for their offspring back home would be a key demand of his plans to renegotiate a fresh deal with the EU before staging an in-out referendum by 2017.
Under EU rules, the benefit has to be paid to European nationals who are working in Britain and paying National Insurance – even if their families are based abroad.
Here are around 24,000 families claiming for 40,000 children, with two-thirds of the children based in Poland.
Mr Cameron said: ‘I don’t think that is right and that is something I want to change.’
He warned stopping the export of benefits across the EU would ‘take time’ because a deal would need to be struck with other member states or wait for the new treaty he hopes to negotiate if he is still Prime Minister after the next election.
He told BBC1’s Andrew Marr show: ‘There are other European countries who like me think it’s wrong that someone from Poland who comes here, who works hard - and I am absolutely all in favour of that - but I don’t think we should be paying child benefit to their family back at home in Poland.
‘Now, to change that, you’ve either got to change it with other European countries at the moment, or potentially change it through the treaty change that I’ll be putting in place before the referendum we will hold on Britain’s membership of the EU by the end of 2017.’
[/quote]
[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2534058/I-stop-child-benefit-exported-Poland-rest-EU-Cameron-vows-sets-powers-wants-claw-Brussels.html[/url]
[QUOTE]He revealed stopping migrant workers in the UK from claiming child benefit for their offspring back home[/QUOTE]
That does seem reasonable.
Considering the workers are paying taxes in the UK, I personally don't see such a huge issue imho.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;43424524]Considering the workers are paying taxes in the UK, I personally don't see such a huge issue imho.[/QUOTE]
Actually that's not true for Romanians and Bulgarians.. They can avoid paying tax in the uk and instead pay tax in their home country.
[url]http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/452149/Romanians-and-Bulgarians-coming-to-work-in-Britain-can-AVOID-paying-tax-in-UK[/url]
[quote]EU rules allow migrants "posted" to Britain for less than two years to pay national insurance and in certain cases income tax in their own country.
The basic tax rates are at a much lower rate at the migrants' home countries and almost 100,000 EU immigrants are already in the UK benefitting from the regulations.
In Bulgaria the flat rate on tax is 10 per cent and in Romania 16 per cent of earnings compared to the basic UK rate of 20 per cent tax and 12 per cent National Insurance.[/quote]
So it's actually pretty harmful. Not sure if other countries such as poland in the article can do this also.
I am getting some serious cognitive dissonance from this.
One part of me is saying that it's only logical that you shouldn't earn benefits if you don't live in the country...
The other part of me is saying that I have had my father "go ahead of the herd" at least three times in my life time to work in different states, and the concept that someone who is working to provide a roof and food is unable to get benefits for their family in the country they are working and paying taxes in is fucking absurd.
[editline]5th January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sword and Paint;43424544][B]Actually that's not true for Romanians and Bulgarians.. They can avoid paying tax in the uk and instead pay tax in their home country.[/B]
[url]http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/452149/Romanians-and-Bulgarians-coming-to-work-in-Britain-can-AVOID-paying-tax-in-UK[/url]
So it's actually pretty harmful. Not sure if other countries such as poland in the article can do this also.[/QUOTE]
That's pretty bad. They should have to pay taxes in both countries till they situate their family in one or the other.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;43424567] That's pretty bad. They should have to pay taxes in both countries till they situate their family in one or the other.[/QUOTE]
That's even worse, how could they afford it?
Just cut off the support to people who aren't even in the country, it's not the countries' problem.
[QUOTE=Chickens!;43424615]That's even worse, how could they afford it?[/QUOTE]
Gross income taxes in one country, housing and bills in the other.
Same sorta thing applies in the United States when you are working in different states, usually depending on what your employer accommodates.
For example with my father: He went to Arizona while the rest of our family still lived in New York. The company he was working for provided him with a hotel room till he could get a lease on an apartment in Tucson, AZ.
In Arizona he was paying income tax, but at the same time he had to wire money back to my mother in New York so that we could pay our bills for the apartment we lived in, medical bills, electrical and appliances, ect.
The thing is though in my dad's case, every time he went to another state, his employer provided a hotel room for him while he was getting expenses ready to move us into an apartment he leased out in the other state. Sometimes this isn't the case, and as you mentioned, its impossible to afford the expenses within those conditions.
I think both the EU and US should offer programs which allow employers to get hotel rooms for employees they hire from out of the businesses's country/state. That way the employees can pool up money and move their families into the country/state they are currently residing in.
[QUOTE=Chickens!;43424615]Just cut off the support to people who aren't even in the country, it's not the countries' problem.[/QUOTE]
I just remembered you guys have nationalized healthcare programs over there. Most of my logic for why knocking people off benefits would be bad, went out the window with that.
Well given that every single citizen of Romania and Bulgaria are currently en route to the UK, as the Daily Mail is so keen to inform us, it shouldn't be a problem as they'll all be UK residents in a week
[editline]5th January 2014[/editline]
Haha oh wow so there are a stunning total of 328 Romanian children receiving those benefits, Bulgaria isn't even on the top ten.
RIP England
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;43424695]Well given that every single citizen of Romania and Bulgaria are currently en route to the UK, as the Daily Mail is so keen to inform us, it shouldn't be a problem as they'll all be UK residents in a week
[editline]5th January 2014[/editline]
Haha oh wow so there are a stunning total of 328 Romanian children receiving those benefits, Bulgaria isn't even on the top ten.
RIP England[/QUOTE]
If it is only 328 then it isn´t hurting so many people when they don´t get any benefits anymore.
[QUOTE=SuddenImpact;43424821]If it is only 328 then it isn´t hurting so many people when they don´t get any benefits anymore.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/01/05/article-2534058-1A6E914700000578-272_634x491.jpg[/IMG]
Here you go.
[QUOTE=TheCreeper;43429234][IMG]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/01/05/article-2534058-1A6E914700000578-272_634x491.jpg[/IMG]
Here you go.[/QUOTE]
Is there any specific reason why France is lower even if it has more claims?
[QUOTE=wraithcat;43429296]Is there any specific reason why France is lower even if it has more claims?[/QUOTE]
I'm guessing that whoever made the chart doesn't know what "sort" means. A bunch of them are jumbled up.
[QUOTE=Stopper;43429950]I'm guessing that whoever made the chart doesn't know what "sort" means. A bunch of them are jumbled up.[/QUOTE]
If it's from the Daily Mail, I'm [I]sure[/I] someone looked at that and went "That's not sorted properly...perfect," when it was on their desk to approve.
The thread title is about what I'd expect out of the Daily Mail, as well. Half-formed spew composed of dog-whistle words.
Did you guys ever think it might be in alphabetical order?
[QUOTE=NotoriousSpy;43430544]Did you guys ever think it might be in alphabetical order?[/QUOTE]
P R L S F L S G P R
[QUOTE=NotoriousSpy;43430544]Did you guys ever think it might be in alphabetical order?[/QUOTE]How is that in any way alphabetically sorted?
Lmao someone forgot the alphabet.
[QUOTE=Sword and Paint;43424544]Actually that's not true for Romanians and Bulgarians.. They can avoid paying tax in the uk and instead pay tax in their home country.
[url]http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/452149/Romanians-and-Bulgarians-coming-to-work-in-Britain-can-AVOID-paying-tax-in-UK[/url]
So it's actually pretty harmful. Not sure if other countries such as poland in the article can do this also.[/QUOTE]
so a less than a percent of these children are receiving benefits without their parents paying tax, to your knowledge, ergo it's a reason to ax the whole thing?
call it morally wrong if you wish, if it's the principle of the thing that bothers you, but i'd be fine paying an extra couple dollars or less per year in taxes if it meant that migrant workers were able to both contribute to our economy and support their families at home.
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