Ex-CIA Chief: Donald Trump should "bring his own damn bucket" if he wants to waterboard - Polidicks

[thumb]http://www.msnbc.com/sites/msnbc/files/styles/ratio--3-2--830x553/public/articles/gettyimages-73034609.jpg?itok=Bq2bLjAd[/thumb] [URL]http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/trump-needs-his-own-damn-bucket-waterboard-ex-cia-chief?cid=sm_fb_msnbc[/URL] [quote] If Donald Trump is serious about wanting to waterboard terrorists, [B]he’d better bring his own bucket, former CIA director Michael Hayden says, because the CIA isn’t going down that road again.[/B] Hayden’s pithy line, which he first uttered in a Showtime documentary and repeated to NBC News, underscores a serious issue: The GOP front-runner has vowed to bring back torture if he becomes president, but current and former CIA officials say the agency feels so burned by what happened when its post 9/11 interrogation program was exposed that it would refuse any such orders. “Multiple investigations, grand juries, presidential condemnations and congressional star chambers have a way of doing that to you,” Hayden, who was CIA director at the end of the George W. Bush administration, told NBC News. He then offered an even stronger version of his Showtime quote. “[B]Like the man said, if you want somebody waterboarded, bring your own damn bucket.”[/B] Trump said Wednesday he is convinced that “torture works,” so he would bring back waterboarding and “much stronger” methods. Other Republican candidates haven’t been as explicit, but some have called for bringing back the harsh interrogations that were repudiated by President Obama when he took office. [B]RELATED: [URL="http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/trump-hails-torture-mass-killings-pigs-blood-ammo-sc"]Trump hails torture, mass killings with ‘pig’s blood’ ammo in SC [/URL][/B] But current and former CIA officials, including some who played key roles in the post-9/11 terrorist detention program, say the fallout from that controversial episode has left the spy agency unwilling ever again to conduct coercive interrogations. That would be true, they say, even if the country was attacked again and Congress undid the law it passed last year banning harsh techniques. “[B]I can’t imagine anyone volunteering to do it[/B],” said Bill Harlow, a former CIA spokesman who coordinated a response to the Senate report and has co-authored the memoirs of several former senior CIA officials.[/quote] [quote] The standout topic, however, was terrorism and national security. [B]Trump repeated – favorably – an apparent myth about how General John Pershing summarily executed dozens of Muslim prisoners in the Philippines[/B] with tainted ammunition during a guerilla war against the occupying United States. “He took fifty bullets, and he dipped them in pig’s blood,” Trump said. “And he had his men load his rifles and he lined up the fifty people, and they shot 49 of those people. And the fiftieth person he said ‘You go back to your people and you tell them what happened.’ And for 25 years there wasn’t a problem, okay?” The story appears to be a hoax spread via e-mail forwards, according to rumor tracker [URL="http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.asp"]Snopes.com,[/URL] with no evidence it occurred. [/quote] [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQchXyKADak[/media] "And even if it doesn't work, they deserve it anyways for what they are doing to us." Classic Trump.

Wow, never thought I'd see the day where I can respect the CIA for its policies on torture.

[QUOTE=download;49796385]Wow, never thought I'd see the day where I can respect the CIA for its policies on torture.[/QUOTE] Ikr, now if they'd come out and say that guantanimo is an affront to the US legal system and international law. There's no reason for that place to exist, GW and rumsfelt didn't even really want it, they just decided it would be easier not to classify AQ terrorists as anything and detain them indefinetly instead of putting them away in military prisons which abide by the laws of this land, today we have the counterterrorism apperatuses to detain, classify, sentence, and hold terrorists, and anyone defending Guantanamo doesn't understand anything about how that place operates

The best part about the pigs blood comment is that, if i remember correctly, there's a part of the Koran that excuses people forced to ingest pork

This won't hurt Trump in the slightest, if anything he'll use this as a joke like "sure I know some companies who will make them so we can make jobs for us and keep us safe". After seeing how his poll numbers didn't drop(if they did it was barely anything) after the initial waterboarding statements from him, it's clear that people speaking out about it isn't going to harm him further.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49796483]This won't hurt Trump in the slightest, if anything he'll use this as a joke like "sure I know some companies who will make them so we can make jobs for us and keep us safe". After seeing how his poll numbers didn't drop(if they did it was barely anything) after the initial waterboarding statements from him, it's clear that people speaking out about it isn't going to harm him further.[/QUOTE] The scary part is Trump is going to sweep the South, Ted Cruz might be able to take Texas, NM, and some of the Midwest, but it's not exactly clear how one candidate can secure the Republican nomination without the South

[quote=Trump]“He took fifty bullets, and he dipped them in pig’s blood,” Trump said. “And he had his men load his rifles and he lined up the fifty people, and they shot 49 of those people. And the fiftieth person he said ‘You go back to your people and you tell them what happened.’ And for 25 years there wasn’t a problem, okay?”[/quote] utter disbelief what an awful cunt of a person

As if Hayden could be taken with any quantity of salt.

[QUOTE=Sableye;49796427]Ikr, now if they'd come out and say that guantanimo is an affront to the US legal system and international law. There's no reason for that place to exist, GW and rumsfelt didn't even really want it, they just decided it would be easier not to classify AQ terrorists as anything and detain them indefinetly instead of putting them away in military prisons which abide by the laws of this land, today we have the counterterrorism apperatuses to detain, classify, sentence, and hold terrorists, and anyone defending Guantanamo doesn't understand anything about how that place operates[/QUOTE] Except there is a reason for it to exist. It is a POW camp for modern conflicts where the enemy doesn't belong to a nation. You don't place enemy combatants in a military prison. They are POW's. Traditionally you held on to POW's until the conclusion of the conflict. This conflict, by definition, can't end in a peace agreement because it is against an ideology. You have zero legal jurisdiction to hold a trial of any sort, nor are they entitled to anything. Even assuming you wanted to just send them all home, many of their own countries have revoked their citizenship, so there is literally nowhere for them to go. The alternative to Guantanamo is execution. Guantanamo is the result of a shit situation, not some desire to house those folks indefinitely.

[QUOTE=Sableye;49796517]The scary part is Trump is going to sweep the South, Ted Cruz might be able to take Texas, NM, and some of the Midwest, but it's not exactly clear how one candidate can secure the Republican nomination without the South[/QUOTE] Assuming he takes NV tomorrow, it will probably swing voters who are one the fence about him seeing him take 3 states in a row is a semi big deal for undecided/unsure republican voters. I'd honestly be surprised if Trump doesn't take super Tuesday by 10 points, I know TX he is trailing by like 6% and losing in AK and Minnesota, but IIRC rest of the states are in the bag.

[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;49796429]The best part about the pigs blood comment is that, if i remember correctly, there's a part of the Koran that excuses people forced to ingest pork[/QUOTE] Would you kindly quote it? because that sounds interesting if not trivial for people who believe in that to bring it up so much then.

Luckily, bacon is a necessity.

[QUOTE] Trump repeated – favorably – an apparent myth about how General John Pershing summarily executed dozens of Muslim prisoners in the Philippines[/QUOTE] Really important to emphasize the myth part. Like really, the Brits using Pig/Cow stuff to grease their wheels caused a massive rebellion in India. You really think shooting Muslims with pork bullets would end something like a straight up Jihad? You could waterboard "terrorists" with pigsblood and we'd still have a conflict on our hands in Iraq. If anything that'd be propaganda for the enemy. Being brutally evil while preaching moral superiority didn't work in Vietnam and it won't work here. You gotta practice what you preach if you want to be seen as the defender of liberty.

[QUOTE=Selek;49796853]Luckily, bacon is a necessity.[/QUOTE] I think that's something we can all get behind.

Yeah, and let's show those North Koreans we mean business by throwing their babies down wells!

I wonder if this is a publicity stunt

[QUOTE=proch;49797079]I wonder if this is a publicity stunt[/QUOTE] Publicity stunt from who? Trump about the waterboarding or Hayden about the "bring your bucket to work" day thing?

[QUOTE=GunFox;49796535]Except there is a reason for it to exist. It is a POW camp for modern conflicts where the enemy doesn't belong to a nation. You don't place enemy combatants in a military prison. They are POW's. Traditionally you held on to POW's until the conclusion of the conflict. This conflict, by definition, can't end in a peace agreement because it is against an ideology. You have zero legal jurisdiction to hold a trial of any sort, nor are they entitled to anything. Even assuming you wanted to just send them all home, many of their own countries have revoked their citizenship, so there is literally nowhere for them to go. The alternative to Guantanamo is execution. Guantanamo is the result of a shit situation, not some desire to house those folks indefinitely.[/QUOTE] So what's with the torturous conditions and the whole rhetoric of "they're baddies, they deserve whatever"

[QUOTE=download;49796385]Wow, never thought I'd see the day where I can respect the CIA for its policies on torture.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=MIPS;49796522]As if Hayden could be taken with any quantity of salt.[/QUOTE] A lot of people forget that government agencies don't set policy, Congress and the President do. This isn't 'we've had a change of heart and decided not to torture', it's 'we were told to torture, then when it became public even the people who told us to do it blamed us, so fuck it we're done'. It's pretty rare for a government agency to outright refuse to enact policy, but that's what happens when policymakers throw an agency under the bus rather than admit to their own failures.

[QUOTE=Talishmar;49797442]So what's with the torturous conditions and the whole rhetoric of "they're baddies, they deserve whatever"[/QUOTE] Tortuous conditions like having Xbox, 32 inch TV's, movie libraries, football, and religious services right?

would there even be any blood left over on the bullets after they're fired? i was under the impression that liquids just burned off

[QUOTE=Cone;49797805]would there even be any blood left over on the bullets after they're fired? i was under the impression that liquids just burned off[/QUOTE] If Forensic Files and Joe Kenda: Homicide Detective have taught me anything, no.

[QUOTE= ;49796367]Trump repeated – favorably – an apparent myth about how General John Pershing summarily executed dozens of Muslim prisoners in the Philippines with tainted ammunition during a guerilla war against the occupying United States. “He took fifty bullets, and he dipped them in pig’s blood,” Trump said. “And he had his men load his rifles and he lined up the fifty people, and they shot 49 of those people. And the fiftieth person he said ‘You go back to your people and you tell them what happened.’ And for 25 years there wasn’t a problem, okay?”[/QUOTE] lol no it definitely didnt work this way this guy cant tell the difference between delusion and reality why does he have so much support in the USA

[QUOTE=Rainboo;49801820]lol no it definitely didnt work this way this guy cant tell the difference between delusion and reality why does he have so much support in the USA[/QUOTE] the republicans have been breeding this kind of candidate appeal for decades since Regan, by constantly reframing everything as a liberal scheme or a liberal plot, or a socialist agenda ect ect, now they have a voting block of very paranoid, very pissed off, very religious individuals who all suffer from NIMBY syndrome. What the republicans didn't envision though is someone as authentically fake as trump coming along an hijacking the voters, usually the establishment candidate has to go through the motions acting xenaphobic, red neck, combative, look at how much effort is put into being an "iowa homeboy", but then they didn't ever expect someone like trump to take all that energy and use it against them

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49796472]yep, if someone forces you to eat pork or it's all you have to eat/can afford or whatever, it's totally ok[/QUOTE] To also be fair on why that'd be the case in several religious texts, the real reason it tells people to avoid pork is because back then most places would undercook unsanitarily raised swine that were full of cyst-forming parasites and these could burrow into your flesh and remain there forever, not to mention other things such as tapeworms and lovely whatnot. Kind of hard to attempt to avoid parasites in good health if you have starved to death. Similarly, raw shellfish has a food poisoning aspect which is why shellfish is usually the next biggest no-no after swine.

[QUOTE=Kommodore;49796521]utter disbelief what an awful cunt of a person[/QUOTE] What's funny is that stupid Philippines myth is literally that, just a myth.

Basically they told trump to go fuck himself. Im glad