[img]http://digilander.libero.it/shinano/Cina/varyag/fotografie/02-2001-Istanbul%20Strait-Tow.jpg[/img]
[quote=UPI]
DALIAN, China, June 8 (UPI) -- People's Liberation Army General Staff head Gen. Chen Bingde has confirmed that the Chinese navy is working on its first aircraft carrier.
The vessel is a refurnished Soviet-era carrier, the 990-foot-long Admiral Kuznetsov-class Varyag, which China purchased as a hulk from Ukraine in 1998, the Global Post reported Wednesday.
To move the vessel from the Black Sea through the Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits, which are controlled by Turkey under the 1936 Montreux Convention that prohibits passage of aircraft carriers, Beijing insisted that the engineless ship was destined to become an offshore casino in Macau.
Chen said only that the aircraft carrier "is being built but it has not been completed."
Lt. Gen. Qi Jianguo, assistant chief of the PLA's general staff, was more expansive, stating that even after the carrier became operational it would "definitely not sail to other countries' territorial waters. All of the great nations in the world own aircraft carriers -- they are symbols of a great nation."
[/quote]
Read more: [url]http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2011/06/08/China-acknowledges-first-aircraft-carrier/UPI-95371307552796/#ixzz1OnryKX9A[/url]
I for one, welcome our new chinese overlords!
Bah, we're the pros at this shit.
EDIT: Rated dumb, yet quite true; As others have mentioned, a carrier in itself it useless.
Also, to whomever mentioned "They can cut trade before invading", well, trade works both ways, and they're the ones who want money out of it, we can default the debt if they invade.
[QUOTE=DoctorSalt;30377322]Bah, we're the pros at this shit.[/QUOTE]
Which is why the USA is getting beaten by uneducated peasants
[QUOTE]Beijing insisted that the engineless ship was destined to become an offshore casino in Macau.[/QUOTE]
That would've been awesome. Rivet City, anyone?
We have 11.
Got some catching up to do, China.
Wow that thing looks decrepit.
[QUOTE=OvB;30377545]We have 11.
Got some catching up to do, China.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure that the US Navy by the time of the Great White Fleet had some catching up to do before it could be measured against the navies of European powers.
[editline]10th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rombishead;30377599]Wow that thing looks decrepit.[/QUOTE]
That image is from....2000?
More recent:
[img]http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7927/53307657varyagcredit.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=OvB;30377545]We have 11.
Got some catching up to do, China.[/QUOTE]
China can simply stop all trade to the USA if they wanted to invade.
Back in my day those Krauts and Limeys were at it with em Dreadnoughts. Now China and America are doing it with Aircraft carriers I can tell ya naw good will come oot a this.
[QUOTE=Cuntsman;30377630]China can simply stop all trade to the USA if they wanted to invade.[/QUOTE]
Yes, they'll stop all their trade and after the invasion they can watch their economy collapse. Sounds like a really worthwhile sacrifice.
[QUOTE=Cuntsman;30377453]Which is why the USA is getting beaten by uneducated peasants[/QUOTE]
Theres a difference between being beaten, and having a hard time finding an enemy which has no uniform.
[QUOTE=Cuntsman;30377630]China can simply stop all trade to the USA if they wanted to invade.[/QUOTE]
Don't be ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Cuntsman;30377630]China can simply stop all trade to the USA if they wanted to invade.[/QUOTE]
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Ex-Varyag, an Admiral Kuznetsov-class "aircraft-carrying cruiser" is not an aircraft carrier by American definition. They were originally designed to provide air cover to Soviet Navy SSBN bastions rather than for power projection.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;30377682]Yes, they'll stop all their trade and after the invasion they can watch their economy collapse. Sounds like a really worthwhile sacrifice.[/QUOTE]
I can already see the collapse with the the amount of waist they're doing building ghost cities.
And as such, I suspect that ex-Varyag is more of a testbed or training vessel than the PLAN's "for real" carrier.
[editline]10th June 2011[/editline]
Damn you Swilly
[QUOTE]Yes, they'll stop all their trade and after the invasion they can watch their economy collapse. Sounds like a really worthwhile sacrifice.[/quote]
China has Europe, the rest of Asia, and Russia to trade with, the USA has nobody.
[quote]Theres a difference between being beaten, and having a hard time finding an enemy which has no uniform.[/QUOTE]
Is that why soldiers whose training costs over $10 million get killed every day by weapons jury-rigged out of scrap metal? Sounds like (imaginary) money well spent!
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;30377682]Theres a difference between being beaten, and having a hard time finding an enemy which has no uniform.[/QUOTE]
Well, it is true that we were facing an opponent who utilized a technology for which we were not prepared for (IEDs) rather than an inferior enemy who "makes things up".
[url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1076984-Chinese-Aircraft-Carrier-May-Be-Nearly-Ready?highlight=Aircraft+Carrier[/url]
Already a thread on it
[editline]10th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tac Error;30378014]Well, it is true that we were facing an opponent who utilized a technology for which we were not prepared for (IEDs) rather than an inferior enemy who "makes things up".[/QUOTE]
Oh hey ironicly the thread was made by you
The problem for China is you can't sail an aircraft carrier without the entire battle group. Well, you can, but it won't last long. So does Ukraine have a battle group parked in a barn somewhere for China to buy and restore?
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;30380133]The problem for China is you can't sail an aircraft carrier without the entire battle group. Well, you can, but it won't last long. So does Ukraine have a battle group parked in a barn somewhere for China to buy and restore?[/QUOTE]
Like I've said, it's not a "for-real" carrier intended to go out on the high seas.
[QUOTE=Cuntsman;30377929]China has Europe, the rest of Asia, and Russia to trade with, the USA has nobody.
Considering we trade with all of Europe and Asia....
Is that why soldiers whose training costs over $10 million get killed every day by weapons jury-rigged out of scrap metal? Sounds like (imaginary) money well spent![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ignhelper;30377297][img]http://digilander.libero.it/shinano/Cina/varyag/fotografie/02-2001-Istanbul%20Strait-Tow.jpg[/img]
[/QUOTE]
the shape of it is pretty cool
That's actually quite an old picture from when it was a piece of junk.
The Chinese are only using it as a play thing and a testbed for their real carrier development.
[img]http://static.pixelpipe.com/8491e13f-20c1-4f6f-be2c-ad4bfdb62a23_b.jpg[/img]
This is a newer picture.
[QUOTE=Cuntsman;30377929]China has Europe, the rest of Asia, and Russia to trade with, the USA has nobody.
Is that why soldiers whose training costs over $10 million get killed every day by weapons jury-rigged out of scrap metal? Sounds like (imaginary) money well spent![/QUOTE]
lol if you think theres another group of people on earth that buy as much useless shit as us
china and america are gonna be tight
It still looks like a construction site though.
[IMG]http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee449/pbleio/mytoys/2011-6-2thecarrier11.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee449/pbleio/mytoys/2011-6-2thecarrier3.jpg[/IMG]
[img]http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee449/pbleio/mytoys/2011-6-2thecarrier6.jpg[/img]
The US has 2/3rds of the world's fleet of aircraft carriers. Suck it, China.
[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_B5-1oeewfB8/S69kMAyS1GI/AAAAAAAAKss/mwSsqlAbLFE/s1600/carriers.gif[/img]
I fail to understand why so many people feel threatened by the fact that China has an aircraft carrier.
As an American citizen I can tell you that this has been on the news quite a bit recently, and nobody seems to be alarmed by this news. Why? Because China is well within it's rights to want an aircraft carrier, and a very small one at that. It allows them to protect their (legitimate) maritime borders, fight off pirates, and maybe even assist U.N. peacekeeping missions.
Who knows, this might be the first step in China taking a more active role in global peace-keeping. Wouldn't that be a nice turn of events, eh?
Wow, the Oriskany before they sank it, when it was being stripped of everything, looked in better shape than that thing
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/SaborWolf/P1141147.jpg[/img] Photo I took before they blew it up out at sea
Because some people see the PRC as some Stalinist USSR + Saddam Hussein + other 3rd world "evil dictatorship" expansionist contraption.
Even during Brezhnev's time in the Soviet Union, if you looked at the bunch of gerontocrats who were sitting in the Central Committee of the Communist Party, you couldn't get the impression that they were interested in world domination. A man on the street was absolutely not interested in starting a war that just might end the world just because a man in Washington wasn't interested in communism.
The idea of a Red Horde ready to launch an unprovoked attack if kept "unchecked" was exaggerated during the Cold War. As much as people like to demeaningly depict the PRC as some Stalinist USSR + Saddam Hussein + other 3rd world expansionist country, participating in a large-scale theater war is not in the PRC's best interests.
[QUOTE=Tac Error;30383058]Because some people see the PRC as some Stalinist USSR + Saddam Hussein + other 3rd world "evil dictatorship" expansionist contraption.
Even during Brezhnev's time in the Soviet Union, if you looked at the bunch of gerontocrats who were sitting in the Central Committee of the Communist Party, you couldn't get the impression that they were interested in world domination. A man on the street was absolutely not interested in starting a war that just might end the world just because a man in Washington wasn't interested in communism.
The idea of a Red Horde ready to launch an unprovoked attack if kept "unchecked" was exaggerated during the Cold War. As much as people like to demeaningly depict the PRC as some Stalinist USSR + Saddam Hussein + other 3rd world expansionist country, participating in a large-scale theater war is not in the PRC's best interests.[/QUOTE]
I agree completely. I did several essays and a large report on China as an economic power and as a military power, and honestly?
They may be in serious economic trouble in the next few years if they don't get things turned around. They're essentially in the same position that Japan was before their bubble popped. I mean, for Christ sakes, they have entire cities, uninhabited because of over-estimation and excess.
If they're going to do any dominating, it's going to be economically, and they're starting to falter at that. They have every right to defend themselves, but I'm not going to lie: I'm both interested and worried as to how they (Chinese leadership) would react in the event of an economic meltdown. Who would they reach out for help? Would they land-grab? Would they attempt to push illegitimate territorial gains as legal in an attempt to gain resources.
I suppose it's all speculation.
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