• Texas to UN poll observers: we will arrest you. Meanwhile, tea bagger poll watchers go free
    22 replies, posted
Source [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/24/greg-abbott-texas-un-elections_n_2010081.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular#slide=49241[/url] [quote]Greg Abbott, the Republican Attorney General of Texas, issued a stern warning this week to members of a United Nations-affiliated delegation expected to be on hand to monitor voting at polling places around the country on Election Day. In a letter to the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, a body created by U.N. charter and responsible for helping to ensure the integrity of elections, among other tasks, Abbott warned the diplomatic poll-watchers that their involvement in U.S. elections could have strong legal repercussions. "It may be a criminal offense for OSCE's representatives to maintain a presence within 100 feet of a polling place's entrance," he writes. "Failure to comply with these requirements could subject the OSCE's representatives to criminal prosecution for violating state law." Such a restriction makes election monitoring highly difficult. The OSCE announced earlier this month that it would send 44 observers to polling places around the country on Election Day in order to monitor possible disputes that could arise in the voting process. The move came in response to a petition from liberal-leaning voting rights groups, including the NAACP and ACLU, that suggested the OSCE's presence could help combat what they fear will be a concerted effort to suppress votes from supporters of President Barack Obama. Concerns among Democrats have mounted in the wake of reports that right-leaning groups, such as the Tea Party-aligned True The Vote, had plans to dispatch armies of poll-watchers seeking to root out invalid votes. Opponents warn that the volunteer "poll challengers" will engage in intimidation of legitimate minority voters who tend to vote Democratic. In his letter, Abbott takes issue with the OSCE's supposed opposition to voter ID laws, which won't be in place in Texas after being rejected by a federal court, and adds that the group's efforts at polling places are neither needed nor acceptable. "If OSCE members want to learn more about our election processes so they can improve their own democratic systems, we welcome the opportunity to discuss the measures Texas has implemented to protect the integrity of elections," he writes. "However, groups and individuals from outside the United States are not allowed to influence or interfere with the election process in Texas. This State has robust election laws that were carefully crafted to protect the integrity of our election system. All persons -- including persons connected with OSCE -- are required to comply with these laws." Abbott's opposition is consistent with a growing trend of conservative distrust toward the United Nations and its affiliates. On Tuesday, Florida GOP Senate candidate Connie Mack said that the U.N. should be defunded and "kicked off of American soil." In a statement, Mack appeared to suggest that the broader U.N., and therefore presumably the OSCE as well, was driven by nefarious motives. “The very idea that the United Nations -- the world body dedicated to diminishing America’s role in the world -- would be allowed, if not encouraged, to install foreigners sympathetic to the likes of Castro, Chavez, Ahmadinejad and Putin to oversee our elections is nothing short of disgusting," he said. UPDATE: 3:10 p.m. EST -- Ambassador Janez Lenarčič, director of the OSCE Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR), responded in a letter to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, saying that Abbott's threat put the state of Texas at odds with an agreement between the body and state authorities. “The threat of criminal sanctions against OSCE/ODIHR observers is unacceptable,” Lenarčič said. “The United States, like all countries in the OSCE, has an obligation to invite ODIHR observers to observe its elections.” Lenarčič took issue with insinuations that officials in the group would meddle with elections, reiterating that they were bound by national laws and regulations, as well as their own strict code of conduct. “Our observers are required to remain strictly impartial and not to intervene in the voting process in any way,” Lenarčič said. “They are in the United States to observe these elections, not to interfere in them.” A release relaying Lenarčič's comments pointed out that the OSCE has observed five previous U.S. elections since 2002, all without incident.[/quote] I think we should let Texas secede, just so we can reconquer it and teach it some manners, before it causes an international embarrassment.
Wasn't there a thread a few weeks back saying voter fraud wasn't a big deal? Why do we need observers. Why are these observers only being called to a select few states
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38180108]I think we should let Texas secede, just so we can reconquer it and teach it some manners, before it causes an international embarrassment.[/QUOTE] I dunno if that's a good idea; they might end up forming a new Confederacy, and America does not need another war to fight, LET ALONE a second civil war. This kind of scenario is best left to the alternative history novels. Regardless, this behaviour shouldn't go unpunished; we must fight tooth and nail to prevent the Rise of the Inquisition.
I suppose its completely random selection
[QUOTE=OvB;38180165]Wasn't there a thread a few weeks back saying voter fraud wasn't a big deal? Why do we need observers. Why are these observers only being called to a select few states[/QUOTE] Because [quote=The Article] “The United States, like all countries in the OSCE, has an obligation to invite ODIHR observers to observe its elections.” [/quote] The US is a member of OSCE and promotes fair elections around the world, its only fair that you have to have monitors as well.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/qti5M.jpg[/img] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Image macro" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=OvB;38180165]Wasn't there a thread a few weeks back saying voter fraud wasn't a big deal? Why do we need observers. Why are these observers only being called to a select few states[/QUOTE] Voter fraud is a right wing myth to prevent people from voting. I'm trying hard not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but so far, all the laws in states have been put forward by Republicans and there have even been studies that show that voter fraud is like, 1 in 100,000. There's no incentive to do anything like that, and it's a stupid fucking concept. [editline]25th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=ironman17;38180172]I dunno if that's a good idea; they might end up forming a new Confederacy, and America does not need another war to fight, LET ALONE a second civil war. This kind of scenario is best left to the alternative history novels. Regardless, this behaviour shouldn't go unpunished; we must fight tooth and nail to prevent the Rise of the Inquisition.[/QUOTE] A second civil war is literally impossible. With our vast modern communication network, we would kind of notice if someone was rallying generals to the cause.
I hate this state.
[QUOTE=Jsm;38180199]Because The US is a member of OSCE and promotes fair elections around the world, its only fair that you have to have monitors as well.[/QUOTE] This this this. How can the US demand that other nations conduct fair and free elections and allow for the presence of UN monitoring groups if they themselves won't allow those groups to operate on their turf? It's supposed to be about setting an example and all that jazz.
With this bullshit going on and rich business owners committing voter intimidation on their employees, I wouldn't be surprised if Mitt Romney won the election illegitimately, seeing how they're all seeming to get away with it. Imagine, 3 of the first 4 presidential elections of the 21st centuries being completely fudged by political corruption.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;38181079]With this bullshit going on and rich business owners committing voter intimidation on their employees, I wouldn't be surprised if Mitt Romney won the election illegitimately, seeing how they're all seeming to get away with it. Imagine, 3 of the first 4 presidential elections of the 21st centuries being completely fudged by political corruption.[/QUOTE] Wouldn't this one put it at 4/4 or was Bush's second election clean?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;38181133]Wouldn't this one put it at 4/4 or was Bush's second election clean?[/QUOTE] I'd say it was clean. That was more of Kerry running a lame campaign. Then again, there was all that controversy over electronic voting. And the swiftboat thing. Wait, is he referring to the 2004 election or the 2008 election as clean. I'd say 2008 was pretty clean all things considered.
[QUOTE=Demolitions2;38180616]I hate this state.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's a shitty state, but it's [i]my[/i] shitty state. ;_;
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38180108] I think we should let Texas secede, just so we can reconquer it and teach it some manners, before it causes an international embarrassment.[/QUOTE] You have no fucking clue how many things we'd lose if we forced Texas to secede. They were an independent nation before they became a state, and they can easily support themselves. Not to mention that Houston has a gay mayor, there's a radio station that broadcasts in Farsi, and that Texas also has the Johnson space center.
[QUOTE=Kinversulath;38180909]This this this. How can the US demand that other nations conduct fair and free elections and allow for the presence of UN monitoring groups if they themselves won't allow those groups to operate on their turf? It's supposed to be about setting an example and all that jazz.[/QUOTE] Who gives a shit if America over watches foreign elections? The decision to do that was made by dumb asses in Washington that I never voted for. I don't like having the blue helmets in America.
Greg Abbot is a massive tool. He's more a political showman than a lawyer- almost everything he's done has tied back to some "hot" issue rather than trying to fix some of the real problems that persist in Texas. Only thing that he may have done that is positive is with Sony and their copy protection that had spyware junk. His only real legal contribution is letting a display of the ten commandments be displayed outside the state capital when that trial went to the Supreme Court. That's what he prioritizes. More recently he's been among the state attorneys trying to 'stand up' to the healthcare reform law. What frightens me is that since Texas is going to vote straight republican for our state offices, is that if he does end up running for governor and gets the Republican endorsement, he's guaranteed to win.
[QUOTE=cqbcat;38181479]Who gives a shit if America over watches foreign elections? The decision to do that was made by dumb asses in Washington that I never voted for. I don't like having the blue helmets in America.[/QUOTE] Actually no the decision to watch over elections is made by the OSCE, not the UN, not the US government. [editline]25th October 2012[/editline] Also for everyone amusement. [url]http://www.examiner.com/article/osce-is-coming-to-a-town-near-you-on-election-day[/url]
[QUOTE=Kinversulath;38181164]I'd say it was clean. That was more of Kerry running a lame campaign. Then again, there was all that controversy over electronic voting. And the swiftboat thing. Wait, is he referring to the 2004 election or the 2008 election as clean. I'd say 2008 was pretty clean all things considered.[/QUOTE] The 2008 election was clean. I think Kerry won the popular vote and the electorate went against the will of the people, if I remember correctly. It wasn't legally illegitimate but it made a sham of the entire democratic system.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38181463]You have no fucking clue how many things we'd lose if we forced Texas to secede. They were an independent nation before they became a state, and they can easily support themselves. Not to mention that Houston has a gay mayor, there's a radio station that broadcasts in Farsi, and that Texas also has the Johnson space center.[/QUOTE] woah woah woah, it was a joke.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;38181805]The 2008 election was clean. I think Kerry won the popular vote and the electorate went against the will of the people, if I remember correctly. It wasn't legally illegitimate but it made a sham of the entire democratic system.[/QUOTE]Actually, a candidate can win the popular vote and still lose. In the U.S. candidates are awarded states and not people. All a candidate has to do is get a simple majority of the votes in a state and he gets all of that states electoral votes. Its theoretically possible to win the presidency with only about 25% of the popular vote.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;38181805]The 2008 election was clean. I think Kerry won the popular vote and the electorate went against the will of the people, if I remember correctly. It wasn't legally illegitimate but it made a sham of the entire democratic system.[/QUOTE] Kerry won neither the popular or electoral vote. You are thinking 2000. 2004 Popular vote Bush: 50.7% Kerry: 48.3%
Here's a more detailed article on the issue: [url]http://www.texastribune.org/texas-politics/2012-elections/international-observers-draw-warning-ag/[/url] [quote]Updated: Oct. 24, 4:30 p.m.: Project Vote Executive Director Michael Slater on Wednesday issued a statement addressing Attorney General Abbott’s warning to international elections observers. “America stands for democracy. It appears that Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott is ashamed of Texas’s voting rights record or he would welcome observers with open arms. Instead, he is threatening them and attacking groups that are working to ensure that every eligible Texan is allowed to vote. “Project Vote is one of the nation’s largest nonpartisan, non-profit voting rights organizations. As such, we recently advised the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) on areas of concern for voting rights this election. Along with The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, NAACP, League of Women Voters of the United States, and other voting rights organizations, we signed onto a letter inviting OSCE to monitor voting in states most likely to be impacted by voter restriction efforts. “Texas has a long history of voting rights infringements, which is why it is subject to the Voting Rights Act. Recently, Texas lawmakers have passed laws that make it one of the states most hostile to voter participation. The Texas photo voter ID law and its redistricting plans were not pre-cleared by the Department of Justice. “Project Vote is determined to use all of our available resources to support voting rights in Texas. That’s why Project Vote is currently prosecuting two important lawsuits in Texas, one challenging Texas’s burdensome restrictions on community voter registration drives, and a second challenging discriminatory procedures registration and list maintenance procedures in Harris County. “In this election season, Project Vote urges the Texas Attorney General to devote scarce taxpayer resources to protecting voters from the very real threats of voter intimidation and suppression.” Original story: International observers will descend on Texas to monitor the Nov. 6 general election, and the attorney general wants them to understand a clear message: We will be watching you. In a letter to the Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights, a division of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, Attorney General Greg Abbott firmly stated that foreign observers have no business inside local polling places. “While it remains unclear exactly what your monitoring is intended to achieve, or precisely what tactics you will use to achieve the proposed monitoring, OSCE has stated publicly that it will visit polling stations on Election Day as part of its monitoring plan,” he wrote. According to the letter, the organization met in April with groups that oppose voter ID legislation in Texas, including Project Vote, which tried unsuccessfully through legal challenges to halt five provisions that also affect voter registration in Texas. The voter ID bill is not in effect, however, after being stricken down by the Department of Justice and a federal court this year. Abbott has said he plans to appeal the case. “The Texas Election Code governs anyone who participates in Texas elections — including representatives of the OSCE,” Abbott wrote. “The OSCE’s representatives are not authorized by Texas law to enter a polling place. It may be a criminal offense for OSCE’s representatives to maintain a presence within 100 feet of a polling place’s entrance. Failure to comply with these requirements could subject the OSCE’s representatives to criminal prosecution for violating state law.” Representatives from Project Vote were not immediately available for comment. Abbott foreshadowed the tone of his correspondence via Twitter by invoking a battle cry made famous at the 1835 Battle of Gonzales. “UN poll watchers can't interfere w/ Texas elections,” he tweeted. “I'll bring criminal charges if needed. Official letter posted soon. #comeandtakeit “ The Texas secretary of state’s office took a more congenial tone in which it aimed to clarify the visitors’ intention, which the office said has been muddied by inaccurate reports. It also asked Ambassador Daan Everts, a leader with the program, to clarify that the group's only mission is to observe Texas elections. “We have had a long and productive relationship with OSCE and election process observers,” secretary of state Hope Andrade wrote. The observation program "has provided valuable insights into the administrations of elections in various political systems and contexts. The exchange of information establishing best practices has been important and insightful and, up to now, completely devoid of any partisanship.” Andrade repeats Abbott's assertion that that the OSCE has no jurisdiction over Texas elections, but adds that she is certain the OSCE “does not intent to allow its organization and this observation program to be portrayed as an ‘inspection’ or ‘monitoring.’” In an email to county election officials, Keith Ingram, the state's director of elections, said he has spoken to the observers and they understood what they could do on their visit. “I have specifically informed the Texas team that Chapter 61 of the Texas Election Code would not allow them into actual polling places, and they understood this limitation,” he wrote. “Other than that, I told them that we are ready to answer any questions they may have. If you have any specific concerns or questions, please let me know.”[/quote]
I'm actually going to be a Pollworker for Election Day here in California so I'll be expecting a lot of poll-watchers (predominately right-wing) due to Hispanic voter prevalence in SoCal. Pollwatchers are generally limited in their ability so I'll make sure to put them in their place if they try to overstep their powers.
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