• The sleeping/dreaming mind
    28 replies, posted
Apologies if this is posted in the wrong section, and apologies for bad grammar/spelling (sorta drunk atm). Anyway, here goes... The problem with contemporary, (or if one wishes to correct me for being wrong here, feel free to do so) or historical neurology is the absence of consideration for that cognition must appeal to some form of survival principle. Thusly, evolution manifests as a consequence of a species adaptation to some demand from the environment. So, one primary problem with studies pertaining with the sleeping/dreaming mind is that academics/scientists (albeit I still respect them for their philosophies for the way in which they acquire a ubiquitous truth) often dismiss hypothesis of the mind, despite such compositions of description for functionality of a mind encompassed wholly within reason -- that is, for instance, Freud abstracted the mind almost completely and determined even the pleasure centers of the brain before we, as a species - humanity - acquires the tools, such as fMRI (err functional magnetic resonance imagery) or EEG (electroencephalograph), to determine the predicates for human behavior. These hypothesis (note, they aren't fully verified - we can perhaps all assume that Biology hasn't attained a state in which all the possible combinations of biological forms (even quintessential forms) can omit the possibilities - to do so would be way way way overly technically pedantic. So, for Biology to proliferate, one must accept that there is merely a likelihood spectrum manifesting as a factor for determining the possibility for how something occurs -- this ultimately however, results to the individual beliefs (and thus their contemporary concerns, sensory structure, inputs, upbringing and genes - legacy - all through some overly pedantic crap that almost no one cares about (but this is important! One minor hole ignored can make anything possible (okay, exaggeration but the problem still persists)). Anyway, FP, I hereby present the following problems... Should evolution have a proactive (that is, a form wherein all inputs are summed to determine the ultimate output - thusly enabling for proactive responses) mechanism whereby an individual of a species evolves? And if so, where should this appear? And could it also manifest within a mind? And if in a mind, is it the unconscious self? This is a big problem, because if it is the unconscious self - the brain isolated from sensory inputs, thereby giving it space (time and resource capacity) to assess the reasoning of those inputs, and perhaps thereby influencing conscious behaviors via some subtle imagery often (perhaps evolutionarily) dimissed as unreasonably for the omission of pathological intervention, then what is the reason for the conscious mind? If the unconscious responds by its own needs and foresees a greater perspective than yourself (almost like your ultra autistic self with absolutely no social skills but with access to other skills you've acquired manually and automatically developed without awareness (also, this is theoretically possible too -- could the cortex independently develop certain skills of an individual without them being aware of them? If not, why?) -- but we can all say that why doesn't it grant us these skills, or does it? Does it maintain our memory and other functional cognitive skills responding to appropriate inputs?) These are all very very important problems that must be addressed before we can advance any further! [editline]19th April 2011[/editline] Sorry fior incoherence once more, a little drunk :( [editline]19th April 2011[/editline] So, ultimately, it is requested for FPs inputs into this problem! thanks.
Best PUI I have ever seen. "Should evolution have a proactive (that is, a form wherein all inputs are summed to determine the ultimate output - thusly enabling for proactive responses) mechanism whereby an individual of a species evolves? And if so, where should this appear? And could it also manifest within a mind? And if in a mind, is it the unconscious self? " You need to explain this better ; I don't understand what you're asking. Are you asking if a being can dictate it's evolutionary path?
You're unconscious mind is unconscious for a reason, that is because if you had a fully conscious mind, you would take in everything you see and hear and get confused rather easily. that is why we need a conscious mind and an unconscious one, because your conscious mind refers back to your unconscious mind which organizes everything automatically without you even thinking about it. Is that what your asking?
i didn't understand a word of what you just said but i think it's a wonderful political portrait of the situation in the ivory coast
[img]http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/7377458/thats-a-nice-thread-you-have-there-itd-be-a-shame-if-anything-happened-to-it.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=Minecraft-Creeper[/img] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Image Macro" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=ryadztu;29305921][img_thumb]http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/7377458/thats-a-nice-thread-you-have-there-itd-be-a-shame-if-anything-happened-to-it.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=Minecraft-Creeper[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] what the fuck does this topic have to do with minecraft also nice read.
[QUOTE=ryadztu;29305921][img_thumb]http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/7377458/thats-a-nice-thread-you-have-there-itd-be-a-shame-if-anything-happened-to-it.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=Minecraft-Creeper[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] Victory
I have aggressive shits when i have a dream and then at the end my balls are inert.
Did you hear about the controversial psychologist? He turned out to be a freud.
[QUOTE=thereisno131;29300542]Best PUI I have ever seen. "Should evolution have a proactive (that is, a form wherein all inputs are summed to determine the ultimate output - thusly enabling for proactive responses) mechanism whereby an individual of a species evolves? And if so, where should this appear? And could it also manifest within a mind? And if in a mind, is it the unconscious self? " You need to explain this better ; I don't understand what you're asking. Are you asking if a being can dictate it's evolutionary path?[/QUOTE] Yeah, although the evolution of a species appears to be quite linear and reactive - but rather, perhaps a final checkout system before the new offspring is actually developed. What's a "PUI"? [editline]20th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=ridinmybike;29303207]You're unconscious mind is unconscious for a reason, that is because if you had a fully conscious mind, you would take in everything you see and hear and get confused rather easily. that is why we need a conscious mind and an unconscious one, because your conscious mind refers back to your unconscious mind which organizes everything automatically without you even thinking about it. Is that what your asking?[/QUOTE] Kind of. There's three distinctive states of mind (albeit one isn't to be recognized as one, since it describes an subliminal influence): a conscious, subconscious and unconscious mind. The unconscious mind is mostly what I was hoping to discuss here -- from personal experience, the insights and resources it can garner for its conscious self are most incredibly vast, although the responses are not always consistent -- it has to decide whether it deems that the response is appropriate (but further however, the most salient problem with studying this is that it mostly relies on individual introspection - to become truly dependent on oneself - but the problem is testing these (so thusly, this cannot be considered a science per se for now until we have the tools to map and determine why and how these variations of mentation occur)). [editline]20th April 2011[/editline] For ultimate clarification, the unconscious is supposed to be viewed as somewhat tantamount to the CEO of an extremely large organization (or of the world) that decides what the individual should do and how it should do this (but another problem with this is why can't it override the directives of the conscious mind? One individual however, suggested that it can't merely due to the overwhelming consequences it would impose on its conscious self -- that it may be detrimental to the survival of the individual (e.g. through hallucinatory experiences, it may only convey metaphorical messages that may confuse the individual's conscious self's perception of the wakeful reality)). The result of this however, could suggest automatic cognitive development (e.g. an automated development and acquisition of a particular skill (for some, they suggest that swimming is a skill they never developed consciously but dream'pt of instead before actually swimming) and emendation. [editline]20th April 2011[/editline] In short, potential applications acquired from deriving an understanding of varying states of consciousness (also, this too is a problem that should be addressed -- can we have a spectrum of consciousness on which one acquires differing forms of awareness correlated to the sensory (internal/external) inputs from their system? If so, then could we perhaps agree that there is no such thing as losing complete awareness and that an individual, from the moment of becoming sentient, is always sentient till the moment of destruction of their core of sentience? And then further, if so, are we aware of the inputs from sleep (not dreams) manifesting as something tantamount to machine code that our conscious mind's automatically reject upon awakening? (also, another thing to consider is a notion of dreams in which the imagery of dreams is not the same as the dream itself (or at least some dreams, perhaps from stages of sleep outside of REM) and that the dream may be far more complex than what our conscious mind can interpret, and that perhaps the interpretations (during the activation of the conscious mind when sensory input flows back to the brain) are merely how the wakeful brain tries to make sense of the outputs from previous states))
PUI= posting under the influence, which is bannable. youd be better off talking about this when you sober up. For some reason this reminds me of when me and my friends drink. After a piss, he came back upstairs and yelled "Guys, i just had an epiphany, why doesnt everyone wear capes!!!" idk, just reminded me of you with this topic coming out of your drunk mind.
[QUOTE=Cpn Crunch21;29311826]PUI= posting under the influence, which is bannable. youd be better off talking about this when you sober up. For some reason this reminds me of when me and my friends drink. After a piss, he came back upstairs and yelled "Guys, i just had an epiphany, why doesnt everyone wear capes!!!" idk, just reminded me of you with this topic coming out of your drunk mind.[/QUOTE] Hah, okays! Not drunk anymore anyway!
Apologies for this bump guys! But was hoping that those who are interested in alternating states of mind and cognitive enhancements would actively engage in this discussion! Anyway, if all the above is an incoherent mess, here's a question to ponder: What would be the consequences of an individual (of a human or other species) if they were permanently deprived of REM sleep from birth (via a cut to an area of the brainstem for initializing REM sleep)? Would they still continue to function normally as other individual members of that species, and most importantly, would they facilitate the necessary sensory quantification and adaptation of their external environment? (e.g. would their brains be capable of compartmentalizing sensory inputs and perhaps quantifying some of those inputs as being reactive for certain stimulus, thresholds of stimulus, sequences of stimulus, at certain times, etc) Naturally, the above would suggest that they would be unable to compete with other members, should they still retain an ability to compartmentalize sensory inputs, and would otherwise suggest that they may even retain a diminished ability to compartmentalize inputs.
I don't understand anything you say, and it's actually quite frustrating
[QUOTE=TheChantzGuy;29389086]I don't understand anything you say, and it's actually quite frustrating[/QUOTE] Apologies, highlight the parts you misunderstood and I'll try to rephrase them into a form you can understand.
So basically you're wondering whether or not the unconscious mind has some effect on the direction which evolution takes?
I dreamt once that I found a bong in my toilet and smoked from it if that helps.
[QUOTE=froztshock;29393670]So basically you're wondering whether or not the unconscious mind has some effect on the direction which evolution takes?[/QUOTE] Something tantamount to it, yes, but not necessarily the unconscious mind. This is probably a controversial question, but one reason for it is due to the sophistication of the way in which organisms both evolve and develop (from a fertilized cell -- we know that there are sequences of instructions to govern that growth, but what governs the preciseness of the many myriad of genes coding for those developments?).
[QUOTE=thereisno131;29300542]Best PUI I have ever seen.[/QUOTE]
there's a huge thread for this that you missed
[QUOTE=geogzm;29395742]there's a huge thread for this that you missed[/QUOTE] The other thread isn't entirely consistent with the context in which "sleep/dreaming" is used for this thread. The majority of the other thread is mostly comprised of users posting of how their dreams are "weired" and "awesome" - it's quite difficult to root through that thread to find information pertaining with cognitive enhancements (i.e. this thread is merely for exchanging and constructing from what we know of cognitive enhancements derived from a structure of mind).
All I know is that my unconcious mind is an asshole because he keeps turning off my alarm in the morning
I hate to be a douchebag, but... [QUOTE=ridinmybike;29303207][b]Your[/b] unconscious mind is unconscious for a reason, that is because if you had a fully conscious mind, you would take in everything you see and hear and get confused rather easily. that is why we need a conscious mind and an unconscious one, because your conscious mind refers back to your unconscious mind which organizes everything automatically without you even thinking about it. Is that what [b]you're[/b] asking?[/QUOTE] [editline]24th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Mister Sandman;29413660]All I know is that my unconcious mind is an asshole because he keeps turning off my alarm in the morning[/QUOTE] I used to have this problem too. Try putting your alarm on the other side of the room so that you have to physically get out of bed to turn it off. Worked for me.
The unconscious mind decides anything for which there is already an answer. The conscious mind probes the unconscious mind in an attempt to determine the result of a situation in which there is not yet (or no longer) a valid answer. This prediction of results is experienced as a "thought"; an impulse in the mind that is understood to not be an actual sensation. And that is how having both conscious and unconscious thoughts aids survival. I have no idea what your question was but that's my answer.
What are your parameters?
[QUOTE=_Twitch_;29415733]The unconscious mind decides anything for which there is already an answer. The conscious mind probes the unconscious mind in an attempt to determine the result of a situation in which there is not yet (or no longer) a valid answer. This prediction of results is experienced as a "thought"; an impulse in the mind that is understood to not be an actual sensation. And that is how having both conscious and unconscious thoughts aids survival. I have no idea what your question was but that's my answer.[/QUOTE] "decides anything for which there is already an answer" could you clarify this? Thanks (from what I've read, it seems to suggest that it will only decide upon things that have answers; does this also comprise of an ability to test for answers before making decisions?). [editline]26th April 2011[/editline] Oh, and for those searching for a use of some of this info, dream incubation is a means to acquire greater control over your mind (well, this can be a little controversial since the other "you" that dreams often attains a distinct vector of life than you, and may therefore reject your requests for some "reasonable" reason). (1) To accomplish this, all you need to do is simply recognize that "you" in the dream as another you -- someone who is far greater than your current (conscious) self, and who can therefore process decisions far more proactive and efficient than the one's which you execute. (2) Once you've done this, query it by some means (e.g. you could write on a piece of paper before going to sleep of some problem you're experiencing, talk to it verbally or find some other medium to communicate to it from -- however, you should also (3) sleep with the intention of receiving a response from this entity). Note: for some, 2 isn't necessary. But it may be useful for those who don't receive responses otherwise; i.e. try a mixture of 1, 2 and 3 and post your results (no personal details necessary, just how it worked for you).
[QUOTE=livelonger12;29440525]"decides anything for which there is already an answer" could you clarify this? Thanks (from what I've read, it seems to suggest that it will only decide upon things that have answers; does this also comprise of an ability to test for answers before making decisions?). [/QUOTE] When you learn something to the point that the brain automatically responds to it without cognitive thought, it becomes a subconscious decision rather than a conscious one. It means that your mind has developed a response that it expects (with a due amount of certainty) will result in the desired outcome, and no longer needs cognitive thought to plan out a response. I haven't formally read about these concepts, I've only abstracted the mind in my own thoughts, so it's a bit hard to put it into words. Hopefully you understand what I mean.
Our subconscious isn't directly available for us for a reason. You couldn't handle the shit that's going on there, not even to speak of the harm you'd do to yourself. All the mental scars you've received are still alive there, came they out at once and vividly, you'd crap your pants. Yep, our deepest consciousness is what gives us the forward drive, our normal mind gives the power its direction. Luckily you can interact with that rather hidden part of yourself
[QUOTE=_Twitch_;29447179]When you learn something to the point that the brain automatically responds to it without cognitive thought, it becomes a subconscious decision rather than a conscious one. It means that your mind has developed a response that it expects (with a due amount of certainty) will result in the desired outcome, and no longer needs cognitive thought to plan out a response. I haven't formally read about these concepts, I've only abstracted the mind in my own thoughts, so it's a bit hard to put it into words. Hopefully you understand what I mean.[/QUOTE] Ah, thanks for the clarification, and I agree with these inputs! From personal introspection, it also appears that sleep/dreaming may also serve as a means to amend autonomous errors encountered -- but this mostly pertains with a vector of mind in which the "you" is not something big which can somehow view myriad of sensory (internal/external) inputs but which rather can only view one at a time and can only respond with a "yes/no" binary output -- the concept of latency can also be applied to this to describe how some choices elude an individual's "free will".
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