[quote]WASHINGTON — The head of NATO said Monday he will ask European nations to spend more on defense at a September summit in Wales of heads of state in response to crises that are testing the Western alliance from Ukraine to Iraq and Syria.
Anders Fogh Rasmussen, secretary general of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, said all 28 of its members should devote at least 2 percent of their gross domestic products to the military.
Read more here: [url]http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/07/08/232579/nato-head-europeans-must-pay-more.html#storylink=cpy[/url][/quote]
Yeah! Get that war economy [I]goin![/I] Pump out them tanks, pump 'em out while your boots are stompin'!
We wouldn't wanna put the states to shame, now would we?
Anders fogh is a massive twat.
Last thing this country needs is defense.
Even if it did this, the defense budget increase would only be used to help prevent riots over it.
[QUOTE=Sprockethead;45447710]Anders fogh is a massive twat.[/QUOTE]
Why?
Asking members of NATO to spend at least 2% of GDP on the military is not much, it's a fucking requirement of being a MEMBER of NATO. But it seems countries take the alliance defending them in case something happens for granted, and think they don't need a proper army anymore.
I feel European members of NATO shouldn't request help then cut back on defense, it's basically parasitic.
Nah war is a thing of the past we all love eachother now we don't need defence, let's just dismantle our military already. I mean, we've had peace in Europe for what, 15 years now? Oh wait no, Ukraine happened.
I have a sick curiosity of seeing the US fall because I want to see Europe shit itself when it realizes that it has no power projection and quite a few weakspot countries, and without the US suddenly there isn't someone to lean back on and let them do all the work of keeping shit together.
[QUOTE=Zambies!;45447799]I feel European members of NATO shouldn't request help then cut back on defense, it's basically parasitic.[/QUOTE]
ATM the only countries that agreed to spend 2% are Romania, Poland and the Baltic countries. Because they know well with who they're dealing with.
The poorer members are the only ones in Europe that agreed, not the richer ones. How fucking sad is that
I agree with this if only so we become less reliant on the US.
Whoa whoa whoa, eaaaasy there, Europe! No need for that, we're spending more than enough for all of you!
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;45447964]I agree with this if only so we become less reliant on the US.[/QUOTE]
A lot of people wonder why the American budget is so balloned and that's because a large part of it is us paying for the logistics of our NATO allies.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;45447982]Whoa whoa whoa, eaaaasy there, Europe! No need for that, we're spending more than enough for all of you![/QUOTE]
I think that's sort of the point of this. If other countries spend a proper amount on defense that means we can cut back on the costs we use to support their militaries, or maybe direct some of it towards benefits for our servicemen or military infrastructure and etc.
Let's not forget an army represents lots of jobs.
We'll always need an army, people claiming the European Union will save us all from any kind of armed conflict are deluded, not only is the EU a very young thing that could blow up at any moment, making it a raindrop in mankind's history, Ukraine has shown us that everything can go wrong really quickly despite all of our good wills.
There will ALWAYS be war, there has been strong peace treaties in the past and they all eventually faded.
[QUOTE=ionuttzu;45447938]ATM the only countries that agreed to spend 2% are Romania, Poland and the Baltic countries. Because they know well with who they're dealing with.
The poorer members are the only ones in Europe that agreed, not the richer ones. How fucking sad is that[/QUOTE]
According to wiki the UK spend 2.3% on defence and David Cameron also recently announced £1.1bn is going towards defence
[QUOTE=joshdasmif;45448143]According to wiki the UK spend 2.3% on defence and David Cameron also recently announced £1.1bn is going towards defence[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about the countries that are under 2%, Anders is talking about those.
Anyways the UK is the only EU member that's spending that much, none are even close.
So far sometimes it appears to me that the Union, and it's history is evidence of a sad truth regarding the dis-integrity and hostility of human nature.
I'm just hoping the Union will adjust to find a balance between integration and autonomy, and iron out it's flaws.
[QUOTE=proch;45448187]So far sometimes it appears to me that the Union, and it's history is evidence of a sad truth regarding the dis-integrity and hostility of human nature.
I'm just hoping the Union will adjust to find a balance between integration and autonomy, and iron out it's flaws.[/QUOTE]
A Federation is the only way this united Europe will survive. It will fall apart if it keeps going on with this charade
They could start by mandating that all EU countries have to supply the EUFOR, for a start.
When united in numbers and spending the EU is actually fairly powerful, but that power is fractured to the point of uselessness.
[QUOTE=ionuttzu;45448198]A Federation is the only way this united Europe will survive. It will fall apart if it keeps going on with this charade[/QUOTE]
A federation is the best way to destroy the European Union altogether.
The people are fed up with the EU as it is, nationalism is developping everywhere. The European Union has to work with the nations, not against them. Hell this is why it was created, so cooperations between countries would flourish and building a trust base strong enough to avoid a war. No one ever wanted an Federalized European Union ala United States.
[QUOTE=headshotter;45448256]A federation is the best way to destroy the European Union altogether.
The people are fed up with the EU as it is, nationalism is developping everywhere. The European Union has to work with the nations, not against them. Hell this is why it was created, so cooperations between countries would flourish and building a trust base strong enough to avoid a war. No one ever wanted an Federalized European Union ala United States.[/QUOTE]
Then it will fall apart. A Union of a bunch of countries that will NEVER cooperate if an issue that will affect their economies arises, will fail.
Europe needs a centralised government that doesn't need to fuck around with month-long negotiations to make decisions that benefit the whole continent.
[QUOTE=headshotter;45448256]A federation is the best way to destroy the European Union altogether.
The people are fed up with the EU as it is, nationalism is developping everywhere. The European Union has to work with the nations, not against them. Hell this is why it was created, so cooperations between countries would flourish and building a trust base strong enough to avoid a war. No one ever wanted an Federalized European Union ala United States.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ionuttzu;45448342]Then it will fall apart. A Union of a bunch of countries that will NEVER cooperate if an issue that will affect their economies arises, will fail.
Europe needs a centralised government that doesn't need to fuck around with month-long negotiations to make decisions that benefit the whole continent.[/QUOTE]
Or, you know, you can have a centralized body summoned in a state of emergency that is meant to dictate a solution to an international affair which could hold a serious impact on the continent, which would, after a specific period of time or after a settlement has been concluded, be shut down and the organization of the EU reverted to the pre-emergency, decentralized condition.
how about we cut military spending
all thats going to happen is that the russians will end up spending more on their military and we'll be back to stage 1
especially trident, we don't need that anymore its a complete waste of money
[QUOTE=Swilly;45447984]A lot of people wonder why the American budget is so balloned and that's because a large part of it is us paying for the logistics of our NATO allies.[/QUOTE]
Never thought of it that way, I have a new found respect for america now.
We have else to bother with right now, like the ever-rising public debt and the endless influx of syrian war refugees, thosands per day, our EU kins don't want to deal with.
The higher ups discussed about buying a bunch of F35 earlier this year but it backlashed hard.
For what exact reason should the whole EU spend more on military? "in case" is not a valid reason.
I agree that the EU needs to be ready for stuff like Ukraine but that doesn't require every member to spend more. Thats's what the EU is for.
To colaborate.
I'm scared of russia so i wouldn't mind some better defense budgget.
[QUOTE=Killuah;45449437]For what exact reason should the whole EU spend more on military? "in case" is not a valid reason.
I agree that the EU needs to be ready for stuff like Ukraine but that doesn't require every member to spend more. Thats's what the EU is for.
To colaborate.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately the US is footing a ton of the bill, and if the EU did collaborate on defense people would probably be paying the 2%
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;45447722]Last thing this country needs is defense.
Even if it did this, the defense budget increase would only be used to help prevent riots over it.[/QUOTE]
all we need is protection against seagulls and seabass
[QUOTE=headshotter;45448256] The European Union has to work with the nations, not against them.[/QUOTE]
This is perfectly right. One thing that sucks though is how tiny states in Europe are. Just look at Texas over Europe:
[thumb]http://i.imgur.com/CUr608t.jpg[/thumb]
Then the fact that there are entire mega-cities coridors interlinked crossing country borders wich cannot be separated anymore.
[thumb]http://www.creativeclass.com/_v3/whos_your_city/maps/FIG_3.2_Mega-Regions_of_Europe.gif[/thumb]
So Europe is molded together first and foremost naturally, and then economically/politically.
Yeah I don't see EU regressing in its integration process, and sooner than later it will become more like the US, or Canada, or Mexico, Or China, or Brazil, Or South Africa(just a few examples of LARGE countries, by area and population)
I mean just to think EU more than doubled in size in the last ~15 years is mindblowing.Immagine how it would be 50 years from now? Yeah, kindof like the US looked like at its inception.
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